Lower water pump bolt

[51 MERC-CT]

These bolts were installed ( appox, 4 years ago ) using what were thought to be cad. plated lock washers but were actually stainless steel.
Perfect example of the result of galvanic corrosion.

[V8COOPMAN]

Obviously a good thing you didn't wait five years! DD

[Ross F-1]

Do you run antifreeze?

[39topless]

Wonder if hard rubber washers would work better?

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Looks like the lock washers stood up, why didn't they use stainless bolts. Walt

[19Fordy]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

Looks like the lock washers stood up, why didn't they use stainless bolts. Walt

Good question? S/S bolts and washers are the way to go, I think.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 39topless

Wonder if hard rubber washers would work better?

Ya think? How 'bout stainless bolts with the requisite Nev-R-Seize? DD

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Do you run antifreeze?

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

Looks like the lock washers stood up, why didn't they use stainless bolts. Walt

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Good question? S/S bolts and washers are the way to go, I think.

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Ya think? How 'bout stainless bolts with the requisite Nev-R-Seize? DD

If the bolts were stainless this would still set up a situation for galvanic corrosion between the bolt and cast iron. If it were a situation where every thing is dry there is no problem. In this case it is immersed in a 50/50 water/ anti-freeze solution which is the catalyst to start corrosion.

[39topless]

Just removed this bolt from my water pump. It looks fine. I don't use any anti-freeze. Car always in garage.

[scooder]

51Merc,
Those bolts look worse than most of the lower water pump bolts I've pulled out of rusty rancid old flatheads! I thought anti freeze had corrosion inhibitors in it?
Martin.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by scooder

51Merc,
Those bolts look worse than most of the lower water pump bolts I've pulled out of rusty rancid old flatheads! I thought anti freeze had corrosion inhibitors in it?
Martin.

Corrosion inhibitors I don't believe would not do anything to prevent galvanic corrosion which is caused by two dis-similar metals. In this case a stainless washer. If the washer was a non stainless one the problem would for the most part, not happen.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by 39topless

Just removed this bolt from my water pump. It looks fine. I don't use any anti-freeze. Car always in garage.

Bet if you install a stainless lock washer, after a period of time it would look just like the ones I removed.

[39topless]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Bet if you install a stainless lock washer, after a period of time it would look just like the ones I removed.

Thanks for the advice. I believe I will not be installing a stainless washer.

[flatheadmurre]

Time to add a zink anode to the cooling system

[Mike in AZ]

if there is galvanic action between cast and stainless steel, why aren't the stainless lock washers affected?.....they look pretty good compared to bolt head....Mike

[V12Bill]

I have removed several water pumps that Henry installed and they were regular steel bolts. Although you would think that they would rust badly, I never had a problem with Henry's bolts. I guess Henry knew something about rust that we hadn't thought of.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Time to add a zink anode to the cooling system

A zink anode will only sacrifice itself to any impurities in solution and will not have any effect on the galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals in direct contact with each other.

[39topless]

Originally Posted by 34PKUP

A zink anode will only sacrifice itself to any impurities in solution and will not have any effect on the galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals in direct contact with each other.

Do we have an old high school chemistry teacher here? Now the nightmares will start again.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by 34PKUP

A zink anode will only sacrifice itself to any impurities in solution and will not have any effect on the galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals in direct contact with each other.

Yep, that's the way I understand it to be.

[Steve Staysko]

There are 3 conditions that must exist for galvanic corrosion to occur.
1) There must be electrochemically dissimilar metals present.
2) There must be an electrically conductive path between the two metals
3) There must be a conductive path for the metal ions to move from the more anodic metal to the more cathodic metal
If anyone of these 3 conditions does not exist, galvanic corrosion will not occur.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

If the bolts were stainless this would still set up a situation for galvanic corrosion between the bolt and cast iron. If it were a situation where every thing is dry there is no problem. In this case it is immersed in a 50/50 water/ anti-freeze solution which is the catalyst to start corrosion.

At least a stainless bolt and stainless lock-washer wouldn't corrode. The water pump would probably have to be replaced from normal wear before the "galvanic corrosion" got to the point where the integrity of the water pump was compromised....

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

At least a stainless bolt and stainless lock-washer wouldn't corrode. The water pump would probably have to be replaced from normal wear before the "galvanic corrosion" got to the point where there integrity of the water pump was compromised....

True that the bolt and washer won't corrode, But the cast iron that the bolt threads and lock washer are in contact with will.
The bolts that were removed in this case were noticeably loose as a result of lost material on the bolt.
Not only the water pump but the threaded portion in the block could be compromised.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

True that the bolt and washer won't corrode, But the cast iron that the bolt threads and lock washer are in contact with will.
The bolts that were removed in this case were noticeably loose as a result of lost material on the bolt.
Not only the water pump but the threaded portion in the block could be compromised.

Well, I guess you'll have to live with your 'galvanization"....or, what's your fix?

[Mtn Wudy]

SO........What should the guys like me that read that,and thought that Stainless bolts and washer were THE thing use.....DO ??? I run 50/50 red Toyota antifreeze....

[41Joe]

Would a sacrifical anode work in preventing this?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sd...RNIaAr2F8P8HAQ
Or is this only work for aluminum to cast iron?

[russcc]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I would avoid stainless steel in all situations for 2 reasons; a. It is more noble metal than the cast iron it going into, b. the typical 18-8 stainless fastener is not a strong as even grade 5 fasteners. Do as Henry did, steel bolts & lock washers, combined with the right type of anti-seize. Use No-Rosion in the cooling system. No-Rosion breaks up the galvanic action chain so it does not occur. It is made by Applied Chemical Specialities in Omaha NE, USA.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Well, I guess you'll have to live with your 'galvanization"....or, what's your fix?

Simple, just do the same as 'Henry' did, steel bolt and lock washer.

[39topless]

Steel bolt, steel washer, replace antifreeze with two gallons of Jim Beam. Problem solved.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Simple, just do the same as 'Henry' did, steel bolt and lock washer.

It's good that you learned and shared from your mistake....

[Drbrown]

How about bronze or monel bolts/washers (as in marine applications) ?

[Bluebell]

Thank you Steve (I think)
So: 1. Do I assume a std ford (or steel) bolt will last longer in this situation?
and 2. Does a corrosion inhibitor not stop this from happening (even with a stainless bolt and stainless washer?)?
I have to wonder how the head gasket is affected (if at all)
It makes me realize how important the inhibitor is when there are steel head gaskets involved.

As an aside, I just checked out a you tube thing last night and the guy said to put a volt meter on 20v dc., hook one lead on the battery, and drop the other in the coolant. If it reads 0.3 of a volt or higher, the inhibitor is past its useby.
He used a couple of other methods as well.
I always wondered how to tell when it was time to replace it.

[CT AV8]

51 MERC-CT,
This is a good topic you've brought up. Based on this chart I found, it appears the type of stainless steel used in the fastener affects galvanic action from "marginally increased" to "markedly increased". I used B8M bolts available from McMaster and they are Type 316 with ss lock washers. Not sure where that falls on the chart, but I had the rad off recently to install a new belt tensioner. Since I had access, I checked the lower bolts for tight and they were fine. This is after five years of running. So I'm wondering if the bolt is made up tight, then does the actual contact surface between lock washer and water pump stay dry and less prone to galvanic deterioration?

[Ronnieroadster]

On my engines the internal water pump bolt I use is always stainless with a matching stainless lock washer. Never discovered any type of corrosion on the bolt head or under the bolt plus the lock washer is also fine. The water pump bolt surface also looks fine. The set on my roadster have been in service for at least 20 years a good grade 316 stainless will last a long time at least they have in my application.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

How 'bout stainless bolts with the requisite Nev-R-Seize? DD

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

On my engines the internal water pump bolt I use is always stainless with a matching stainless lock washer. Never discovered any type of corrosion on the bolt head or under the bolt plus the lock washer is also fine. The water pump bolt surface also looks fine. The set on my roadster have been in service for at least 20 years a good grade 316 stainless will last a long time at least they have in my application.

Finally......a reasonable reply, and from a guy that knows the subject. DD

[flatjack9]

I'm quite sure a good quality steel bolt would live much longer than 20 years also. Personally I have not had a problem with Henry Ford bolts and I have taken an awful lot of engines apart.