1932 5W VIN please help

[noel_808]

Hello, new to forum. Picked up a 5w with a V8 VIN # 16X,XXX from Texas via Wisconsin, need some help and I searched the forums for hours, honest.

Here goes; The car was (re)titled in WI in 1998 with this V8 VIN and the Texas title has a statement on the title that says "VIN verification exempt"

My state, Hawaii, is like California's strict laws with VIN verification in which a cop has to come and verify at your house (There's one dedicated guy for over a million people) so it's taking time to get him.

I removed the front fender and removed the paint but can't find the VIN without lifting the body as the original frames were heavily modded with a heidts front and leafs out back and of course, boxed. I can't find anything online regarding the amount of 5w V8s made.

So, without the lifting of the body, what are the chances that I have an actual 5W V8?

It is the original fenders and no tire holder (deluxe) but did have a rumble seat. Lots of pics but nothing that I can see that would indicate it was a V8. It was in a barn for 30 years in Great lakes and had a chevy v8 when the WI '32 enthusiast got her.

He did all the awesome touring mod work but never took a pic of the VIN. The story before the WI enthusiast got it is that it was the fastest v8 at Great Lakes Speedway until 1955 but I'm guessing that's famous folklore from every town.

From the frame off pics given to me, the chevy V8 was not race worthy, looked pretty plain jane chevy 350. Car had full fenders.

Without the verification, my Hawaii title will say "Streetrod Replica" instead of Streetrod. Is there any publications that have more info on this topic?

[Capn John]

Here's a start:
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

[url]http://www.wnyrg.org/canvins.html[/url

http://www.wnyrg.org/findserno.pdf

http://www.wnyrg.org/tip.html

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/US2831bodystyles.htm

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/patentplates.htm

[DavidG]

If all you have is 16X,XXX complete with the comma and no prefix such as AB, B, or 18 followed by a dash and maybe a star in front of the prefix and following the last digit, then it falls short of being anything other than a six digit number and not a Ford six digit number as they used no commas. While there were more than 16X,XXX V8s produced during the 1932 model year that's purely coincidental until you can find some evidence linking your car to the Ford numbering sequence such as a one of the prefixes cited above.

[TJ]

If there's a VIN on the frame it should be near the left firewall brace and be visible once the fender is off. Did you check the left door jamb? Many times state DMVs put a metal tag in the doorjamb when a car is retitled.

[Pat/Ohio]

Noel, A suggestion would be to purchase a Patent ID plate which also has a box for your serial number. Although not correct for an original vehicle, they are great for displaying your serial number in plain view on the firewall. I have done this a time or two so that the vehicle inspection goes smoothly without dismantling your car. Just stamp the serial number that is on your title. Midwest Early Ford Parts will also stamp your plate for you.

Try this link for the Patent plate: (you will need to do a search for the Patent Plate)
http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....rt~A2~cadehjha

Good luck,
Pat

[Hoop]

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... "what are the chances that I have an actual 5W V8?"

Original Poster has a couple of questions.

Perhaps DavidG can help with advice on what might be different on a V8 frame as opposed to a Model B ... holes, punch-outs, extra brackets, etc. Would help answer the V8 question.

While 16X,XXX is a bit off due to the coma and no prefix, where did the coma come from? Was it simply added by the OP? ... does it actually appear on the title? It's a good number which might have had the coma added by anyone. Further, it was a common practice to omit the prefix, so 18-16XXXX would go on the title as 16XXXX. I've had them appear that way.

Soooo, help the OP find specific features on the frame that would point to a V8 rather than a Model B .... then help him find/uncover/raise the original serial number stamp on the frame ... I think he already knows where to look.

[rotorwrench]

The previous title is usually taken by the state that issues the new title unless someone was given a copy of it or already had a copy. Having lived in Texas for many years, I can assure you that verification of serial numbers or VIN are not exempted in any way for the purpose of issuance of title. Texas verifies them the same way many other state do or they don't issue a title. A title that doesn't mach the VIN is not valid for the vehicle in question. I would seriously question the validity of any title from Texas that was exempted from verification. This just doesn't make sense.

Your car may not even have the original frame. It's been a long time since 1932. The body should have a few characteristics left of either 4-cylinder installation or V8 unless holes have been filled or removal of those possible differences. DavidG may be able to help ID it unless there is no difference. It seems like the 4-cylinder had a damper mounted on the firewall unless I'm mistaken.

[flatrod]

Do most titles have coupe, pick up or roadster on them? My title just says 1932, 18-xxxxx, no mention what body style it is. It came from New York with nothing and still has no body style.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by flatrod

Do most titles have coupe, pick up or roadster on them/

That will depend upon the state, and don't expect it to always be consistent within a given state, either. A lot of things can change within a state's DMV over 85 years.

[DavidG]

In terms of bare original '32 passenger car/commercial vehicle chassis frames there's nothing to distinguish that for a B from that for a V8, except, of course, for the engine number stamped on to the top of the frame rail.

[Mart]

As it is a streetrod, how much of the original car is there? how about the firewall? the 4 cyl had a damper bolted to it. V8s didn't. The original k member had different locations for the anti chatter rods. you will see witness marks from whichever set of bolt holes were used or not used.

I would not be surprised to find neither original firewall or k member are still present.

Is the frame actually original or repro? If original there should be a repeat of the original serial number in two more locations on the left side rail. I say should because I could not find the other two locations on mine, but the main one is clearly visible.

Where are you quoting the number from? Paperwork? Does it appear on the car, if so, where and is it on a removeable plate?

What would happen if it is an original frame and you do find a number elsewhere, an original correctly stamped ford number, what would happen if it did not match the vin number you are quoting?

If it was not a V8, the serial number would have started with 5000000 so the 16xxxetc is not a 4 cylinder number.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

A lot of old titles I've seen will differentiate passenger car from pickup (commercial car) but many only state 2DR or 4DR with no mention of body style. Many didn't event mention where it was an open car (convertible) or a closed car. They were plain and simple but the manufacturer, model year, and serial number were really all that mattered back then.

I was from Kansas originally so for many many years they have had FARM registration for vehicles used in agriculture for tax purposes. This included pickups, trucks, and other road vehicles either factory or home made to work on a farm but it didn't include passenger cars. Commercial vehicles were also taxed differently but I'm not sure what gave a vehicle that designation.

[Krylon32]

Heaven forbid you might mysteriously find a set of stamps with a star and the title numbers might appear on your frame. Nebraska is fairly strict but I have heard of guys riveting a serial numbered data plate to their frame and it passed?

[Newc]

Hi all; the correct stamps are currently for sale here on Fordbarn. Newc

[Andy]

The vin at the firewall was visible without removing the fender. Having to remove the fender would not be practical. I am thinking it is a repo frame. Please take some pictures of the side rail below the front fender. There may be existing stock holes but they could have been filled.
There must be a number somewhere as Texas sure would not issue a title without a number to check. You could have multiple cars using the same title.
I would think stamping a number would be a very bad idea.

[Krylon32]

Have you had the vin checked to see if it's clear? I'm curious, how the hell are you gonna get it inspected and passed without some form of number identification?

[noel_808]

Attachment 339512Happy thanksgiving and thank you for your replies. Good to see a lot of activity on the forums and great members still wrenching.

Capn John; I have seen the van pelts and wnyrg sites, gonna check those again to see if I missed something. Sorry, no comma is on the title. it is 16XXXX titled in Wisc, are the v8s titles normally with the "18" before the rest of the VIN? e.g. 18-123456?

TJ; The frame had a lot of work, I doubt the WI owner cared is it was B or 18, he was never going sell it, he had a 32 panel too, loved his fords. He passed away and the wife sold it to a collector from Texas.

DavidG; I was confused too but the title from Texas states "VIN verification waived", not exempt like I stated earlier. I took it to the DMV in Texas and couldn't get it titled in my name because I am not a Texas resident. I should've asked about that statement but I got the bill of sale notarized from a law office across the street. I will try to post a pic. Sounds like if I want to know for sure, I just have to lift the body for the numbers, still like to know if it is a B or 18 just from the old pics.

Pat/Ohio; I have an aftermarket label attached to the firewall, is that sufficient? I have heard rodders here say that is sufficient but the cop hasn’t gotten back to me and he’s on vacay till next week. Been waiting since Nov 1. for him to come out, may have to go to the police station next week, temp reg expires Dec 2.

Thanks Hoop, I will try post a pic of the firewall. Rotorwrench, I can assure it is a 32 frame. Frame off pics prove it. The WI rodder was a true Ford man, a ’94
Mustang 5.0 sits in it, Ford 9in, all done in good taste. He tore it down and went all Ford when he could. The body was down to bare metal and it looked good from the pics, it even has the original fenders, if not the original, they are steel. Everything in it from I can see is a high quality build. There are jig pics with the engine in and out as more work was done to get it right. Modifications to the frame are heavy like I said, Heidts front and welded leafs with a notch in the kick to bring it down a bit out back. The last paint job was done from streetworks in Waukesha, a quality paint job so I think he grinded away the beads and took a little more than I preferred after welding or just didn’t care what it was (18 or B), which makes me think it’s originally a 4 cyl frame, I just want to know if there is any tells that it is.

From what Mart’s saying, I may have a chance
just gotta learn where to look in the frame off pics. Now, this is hearsay from local rodders here but if there are numbers and it doesn’t match, e.g., the cop says he sees B-xxxxxxxx or 16XXXX and he says it is valid and if not stolen, the Motor Control Office (Safety check) concurs and the title can be whatever the numbers are as the frame #s read, regardless of what the previous paperwork says. State law says it will then be a streetrod and not replica which is important to me as really I don’t want the title saying replica. Some guys here don’t care and they run it but I think the state screwed up after modeling their laws after other states. Hawaii likes to take all confusing California laws and make them more complicated.

So as I contemplate the body lift, I have a 32 rodder friend that offered to stamp the frame but I don’t think he has the right set, was there ever a dash between the 18? I don’t want it to be stamped wrong as I can imagine the horror stories.

I have seen examples of it being as follows; *18<->123456* (double arrow). Was there any star instead, between 18 and the numbers? Example; 18*123456* or *18*123456* I’d like to let the guy know he needs to get the right numbers if it gets to that. I know there are special 1,6,9s as well.

Andy, I had to try (fender removal) since the aftermarket steering link is blocking about 2 in of where it could have been stamped. Wanted to eliminate all possibilities and after all the paint stripping, the metal looks like it had been resurfaced after the box welds.

So, if anyone can help...
1) Are the v8s titles normally with the "18" before the rest of the VIN? e.g. 18-123456? I understand it may vary with different states, just curious what the experts say.
2) Was there any star between 18 and the numbers? Example; *18*123456* or 18*123456* versus the *18<->123456*

Sorry so long and will try to get a few pics for the experts, thanks again.

[noel_808]

Here is same two, closer if there is anything that can decipher whether it's a b or 18.

[Carl]

...on my original V8 car, there is a star in front of the 18, a double arrow between the 18 and the VIN #, and a star at end of VIN #. The stars were put there to discourage adding #s. Not sure what the double arrow signifies. Maybe to distinguish between the model # (18) and the VIN #.

[DavidG]

In answer to your two questions, the most common occupant of the space between the '18' and the actual engine number is a dash. The complete number including the '18' is normally included on the title or registration. Exceptions are numerous. Normally, the stars only appear at the beginning and ending for the purpose cited by Carl. Could a star appear in the middle on an original frame? Of course, as the frames weren't being stamped by rocket scientists it could have happened.

Unless something unusual turns up if you do pull the body, I recommend that you stick to the format most commonly encountered.