Clutch issue?

[fortyonerag]

Just lately, the 41 (stock) has started grinding the gears. Not all the time, but noticeable.
I'm also getting grinding from neutral to first or reverse. Again intermittent.

I have checked the oil and all is clean and OK - no filings - so far.

First I thought it was a winter issue, but now I'm assuming a clutch rebuild is in my future, which will mean the engine out. However I was hoping to keep it on the road while I build a new engine.

Am I overthinking this? Are there any adjustments etc that can be made to reduce my problem, even temporarily while I get a new flathead ready?

[aussie merc]

adjust the clutch and check its actually releasing chock the wheels raise one of the rears place in gear get a buddy to lean on the raised wheel and push on the pedal when it releases the wheel spins under a gentle push and you can check how much pedal you have left if all good you have box inertia [totally normal] just quickly select 2nd or 3rd and then drop straight into 1st or reverse as needed [this actually uses the synchro's to bring the internals in the box to a stop before engaging 1st or reverse that are non synchro]

[aussie merc]

curiosity question are you going to Leeton later this year

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by fortyonerag

Just lately, the 41 (stock) has started grinding the gears. Not all the time, but noticeable.
I'm also getting grinding from neutral to first or reverse. Again intermittent.

I have checked the oil and all is clean and OK - no filings - so far.

First I thought it was a winter issue, but now I'm assuming a clutch rebuild is in my future, which will mean the engine out. However I was hoping to keep it on the road while I build a new engine.

Am I overthinking this? Are there any adjustments etc that can be made to reduce my problem, even temporarily while I get a new flathead ready?

Perhaps its time to check your clutch pedal adjustment. normally about 1.5" free travel of pedal before engagment of clutch throw out bearing
Phil NZ

[fortyonerag]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

curiosity question are you going to Leeton later this year

No plans at this stage, but if I can get a bit more confidence in the 'vert, who knows?

[fortyonerag]

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Many thanks gents, that ol' clock on the wall says its time for my stupid question.....

I prolly have more like 2.5" of free travel on the clutch pedal, and have to 'floor it' for it to properly operate.

When adjusting the clutch rod, shorter means the clutch operates sooner on pedal press, or do I make the clutch rod longer?

[cadillac512]

Longer on a rod that "pushes" to operate the clutch, shorter for one that "pulls".



Terry

[41 fatty]

Why would you pull the engine to replace the clutch when all you need to do is pull the rear back several inches and drop the tranny. ( its easier)

[aussie merc]

41 fatty have you ever worked with torque tube drive

[41 fatty]

Ive pulled my engine 2 times, replaced the clutch multiple times over 40 years with my 41 coupe. ive learned that if you use a slightly longer brake hose, you can pull back the torque tube without disturbing hydraulics and lift the tranny out the floor, then work on clutch.If you'r going to replace engine anyway then ok, but i've saved a lot of time on clutch work by pulling back the torque tube

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by fortyonerag

Many thanks gents, that ol' clock on the wall says its time for my stupid question.....

I prolly have more like 2.5" of free travel on the clutch pedal, and have to 'floor it' for it to properly operate.



When adjusting the clutch rod, shorter means the clutch operates sooner on pedal press, or do I make the clutch rod longer?

You make the rod longer to get rid of the play, 2 1/2 inches is way too much play. Taking out some free play will give you more travel to release the pressure plate, That will probably solve your problem. Take out as much as you can but check the linkage down at the trans and make sure you have some play. maybe a 1/4". As long as it has some down there its fine. 1 1/2 inches of free paly allows for the clutch wear. As the disc wears thinner the clutch fingers move back and the free play goes away. But if your grabbing right at the floor you want to eliminate as much free play as you can to get more travel from the throw-out bearing. 1 1/2 inches might be too much in your situation, if that works great, if not take out some more play.

Most of the clutches I replaced at work (hundreds of them). when the clutch was worn-out they would not grab until the very top of the pedal with the correct free play. I knew when they grabbed at the top they would soon be slipping. When they grabbed at the bottom we first bled the hydraulic cluthes, tookout almost all the free play on mechnaical linkages and if that didn't fix it we replaced the clutch. With a clutch replacement we usually set the fee play while the vehicle was still up on the air. You grabbed the clutch fork on the trans and made sure it had a little free play maybe a 1/4" inch at the clutch. Every few months they were back in for service and while they were up in the air we always grabbed that clutch fork and checked the free play.

I worked nights for 30-years, 4:00 to 12:30. We were working one Christmas Eve and we all wanted to be home for Christmas dinner with our families. The boss said we could leave when the last repair ticket was done. A driver in a 1978 Chevy Luv came in with a clutch slipping so bad it would barely move. I got in the cab, and they put me up in the air on the hoist. I took out the floormat to get the shifter off. Another guy was on the driveshaft, a guy on each side of the trans were taking out bolts. Another guy ran to the parts room to get a resurfaced flywheel, pressure plate, disc, throw-out bearing and a pilot bearing. 45-minutes later it was back in its stall. Amazing what you can accomplish with the right motivation. What was bad was the boss found out it could be done in 45 minutes instead of taking all night.

[rotorwrench]

First and reverse sliding gear is un-synchronized so it's pretty easy to get a grind when shifting down from 2nd to 1st. Matching rpm is key when shifting un-synchronized gears. When down shifting it's important to bring the rpm of the engine up to get close to where the rpm would be in 1st for that particular road speed. I sort of go by ear on that. I learned to drive in a 1952 F3 that had the old T8 4-speed. That transmission has no synchonizers at all so a person has to learn how to rpm match for any down or up shift. My model A is the same way but it's only a 3-speed.

The clutch linkage can depend on what type it is for pedal adjustment. With a pedal direct to fork arm type set up it should be to lengthen the linkage to reduce the amount of pedal free play. Some take it to 1-inch free play but it depends on the design. You just want to make sure that there is no way the clutch will engage with the pedal up. A person also doesn't want the throw out bearing to be making any contact with the clutch pressure plate fingers when the pedal is all the way up. That would cause premature wear on the throw out bearing. Condition of the pedal return spring and throw out bearing hub return spring should be good. Both the pedal and hub should fully disengage to the stops. Clutches wear on all three friction points so adjustments have to be done when they are noticeably out of tolerance.

[deuce_roadster]

Over 2" free play is WAY too much. A clutch adjustment will solve this problem.

[Pech33]

[Pech33]

Go ahead and pull the engine. I was sending my transmission to VanPelt's and dropped the rear wishbone etc , removed the trans and clutch. I looked at the flywheel and decided it needed to be resurfaced (see the ridge). You can't get the flywheel off without dropping the oil pan. Well, the engine is sitting on the oil pan which is sitting on the front wishbone (on top of a 1" tube steel piece) and there are very few places to jack the rear of the engine up. Someone has probably done it, but Kube said "go ahead and pull the engine", so I did. You can see that it needed to be detailed, so that was accomplished too. I am glad I yanked it out.

[fortyonerag]

Many thanks for all the advice gents. I'll have a shot at clutch adjustment, if it works I'll post here. Might be a little while - a few house reno projects just popped up.

[fortyonerag]

Many thanks gentlemen. I adjusted the clutch and all is good. Shifts smoothly now.

[aussie merc]

glad to help

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by fortyonerag

Many thanks gentlemen. I adjusted the clutch and all is good. Shifts smoothly now.

That's good news!

In my years of working on these old Ford's, I find it's best in the long run to pull the engine when it becomes necessary to replace the clutch and pressure plate. In most cases for me, it was necessary to resurface or replace the flywheel, which means the one piece oil pan/flywheel housing must come off. This involves a lot more work, in my opinion, when the engine is still mounted in the vehicle.

[fortyonerag]

Yes, I'm planning a replacement engine soon. She's getting a lil bit smoky. This adjustment will allow me to enjoy her a while longer while I'm getting my act (and motor) together.

I'll be rebuilding the clutch and having a close look a the trans during the changeover.