Cough Cough & Died UPDATE!!

[msmaron]

Well tonight before we left work i took off the fuel line to the carb...A chunk of RUST came right out, it flowed like a 60 year old.... and with it more rust particles.. Took off the fuel line completely and could actually see the rust in the line. Cleaned with a wire and blew out and amazed to see what came out of it.

Seems that now that i have been driving for 600 miles since we got it going good i have stirred up the tank and loosed up a lot. The person i got the car from owned it for 10 years and told me it basically sat all that time with gas in it. SO NOW... tomorrow i will drop the bottom half of the carb and clean all the jets and the bowl.

What i would like to do is put a filter in the shut off BUT i have the indented firewall and DONT think they make a filter. Anyone know that for sure, if not i might have to make one from a small pipe screen,

Is there anything i can clean out the tank with and NOT REMOVE the gas tank, i think cleaning this line and getting it to run now is basically just a bandaid as long as that tank has particles,
Any more suggestions on how to get it cleaned out.

and thanks to all for all the great suggestions on the previous posts
mark

[Grampy]

Hi Mark,

I pretty much had the same problem about a month ago or so, I posted (before the barn changeover) describing the problems I was having - just about what you described, I told about a siphon I found in the hardware store that was a somewhat rigid tube about 1/2 inch in diameter with a bulb on the top and a flexible tube coming out of that. I put the rigid tube in the gas tank, pumped the bulb, and the siphoning action brought up gas (which I collected in a 5-gallon bucket). Along with the gas were lots and lots of rust chunks, some large -about the size of sea salt, some smaller -about the size of table salt, and every once in a while some quite large. But it was not so much the size of the rust, as it was the volume of the rust; lots of it, so much so that it was coloring the gas an almost light caramel color.

I used the siphon to remove all the gas in the tank because it was pulling rust the entire time. I removed the shut off valve and put in a new filter, the old one was almost solid, its a wonder anything got through at all. I suspect it was original equipment. I then cleaned all the tubing, the sentiment bulb, the filter in the carb, put in fresh gas, and haven't had a problem since.

Good luck to ya!
Steve

[Mountain Dew]

Posted 5/25/2010

Originally Posted by Mountain Dew

Are you sure that it is "vapor lock" and not trash in the line? Ole Willie had a little bout with the fuel supply a few years ago. I drained the gas from the tank and removed the shut off valve from the fire wall (indented like yours). There was alot of flakey rust. I cleaned the tank out the best I could and have not had any problem since.

Now you're making progress and not on some "vapor lock" goose chase. Drain the tank and take the valve out of the firewall and you will probably get more trash. It's hard to clean out a gas tank. I blew air in it through the filler by using the exhaust of a shop vac. The baffles prevent you from getting down in the tank good with a magnet. Good luck!

[pat in Santa Cruz]

you should have a sidebowl sediment bulb on your carburetor. If you do not (And I can understand because the carburetor bodies that accept one are expensive) you can get in line glass filters with a 100 mesh screen in them at most modern car stores for only a few bucks. They will catch a lot of the stuff and you can see it accumulate. Prior to installing one, you should try to get as much crud out of the system as you can. I'm sure plenty of folks will relate their stories to you about that chore. After a few times dumping out the filter and carburetor screen, the problem will diminish. When storing your car for the winter or in damp weather, keep the tank full. Condensation forms on top of a partially full tank and will contribute more rust. Some vendors (apparently not Brattons) now have a kit that adapts a glass sediment bowl to the indented firewall valve. It should work well for settling out the fines, but it looks like a vapor lock's dream to me too. I have also heard that some vendors now have a valve screen available for indented firewall valves and I seem to recall someone saying on the old Fordbarn that they were able to install the common shut off filter into their indented shutoff. I have not done that personally though..

[MikeK]

Mark, I have two late '31's and both had considerable crud caked in the riveted-in-place straight horizontal pipe from under the tank through the firewall. After draining the gas and removing the shutoff valve, I took a long, cheap $1 screwdriver, hammered the last 1/8" of the tip over 90 degrees and scraped and flushed the pipe. The crud in both cars, despite a somewhat clean fuel flow, was so thick and restrictive I couldn't pass the 1/4" screwdriver through to start. The hole in the pipes finally opened up to a quite large 3/8" ID.

On my 160B I made a huge brass filter to fit inside that pipe. It is 4 1/2" long. I tightly wrapped fine bronze filter screen around a 1/4" dowel rod and soldered the seam. I counter bored the back of the valve about 1/2" deep to press in and hold the end of the filter. I also improved the valve flow, by drilling out the passages to a larger diameter. I worked over the gas cap by drilling out the vent hole a bit larger. Installed, it no longer acted like a prostate problem, it pissed like a race horse.

I drove that car in 100 degree Dallas all week in 2008 without problem. Went through two tankfuls there, the first was E10 from Chicago that was in the car when I put it in the trailer.

On my 40B I modified the large hollow cross-bolt that holds the Zenith sidebowl and screen to the carb by drilling additional holes in it.

I always wondered what the flow rate differences are between the original steel pin float valve, the viton tip replacements, and Grosse-jet valves. I imagine some flow improvements could easily be made there, too. A vapor filled gas line pushed by gravity feed would clear through a bigger hole quicker! The carb bowl vent would also need to be up to the task.

[Patrick L.]

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I think its pretty tough to get a tank clean and I'm not too concerned about keeping everything as Henry intended so I have a plain ole in-line filter installed where its least likely to be noticed and just change it every year.. Some have stated they had fuel flow problems with such a filter, but, I haven't..

[Frank The Plumber]

Every single problem that you have had with this car, vapor lock, popping, etc. have been because you knowingly ran it with a gas tank that had a batch of gas sitting in it for 10 years, you know better, you have access to people who know better, you know exactly what you have to do. Remove/clean your fuel tank, flush or replace your fuel lines, dispose of your winter gas, new fuel filters. Same as I would do on my $150.00 lawnmower. Whether its acceptable or not by standards you should have a drain plug on the bottom of your fuel tank so you can clear the junk and rust out of it, if its not acceptable by standards, force a rule change.

[Tom Wesenberg]

No need to drill a hole for a plug, just remove the drain valve and keep flushing gas through it. I actually used 4 gallons of lacquer thinner and kept flushing it through until I stopped getting junk. Then install the screen in the drain valve. No more probelms on this customer's car.

[anut]

vapor lock baw humbug

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by anut

vapor lock baw humbug

May the bird of paradise fly up your fuel line and leave bird droppings and make a believer out of you too! LOL

Our governor is pushing for a law to make all gas 20% ethanol. Then we'll have a real mess!

[Bruce Adams]

Here is a filter assembly available at Mikes A Fordable and others for an indented firewall, non-sidebowl configuration. I am presently working to configure a tubing so I can rig it to my sidebowl carb on my late 1931 Cabriolet.

I wish I knew how to present larger photos since this is at the maximum the instructions says I can use.

[Tom from Drippin']

While I'm not familiar with indented firewalls, I would think you could add a temporary "dirt leg", with drain valve between the firewall and sediment bowl, similar to what has been previously shown for non-indented firewalls. It may not look pretty, but should work, and can be removed when no longer needed.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

Here is a filter assembly available at Mikes A Fordable .

Bruce can you lead me in the right direction at Mikes. I am going to order it as soon as i can find it.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here's the indented firewall fuel filter Don sent me to post the picture.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Here's the indented firewall fuel filter Don sent me to post the picture.

Tom here is what is at mikes and i have ordered already! I will have it tomorrow!

[Frank The Plumber]

By Sunday that will be full of rust and you will be looking for another solution, Flush your gas tank and fuel lines and get rid of the rust at the source.

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

Bruce, pictures you add as attachments can easily be enlarged just by clicking on the picture. I clicked on your attachment and it enlarged, then clicked on the enlargement and it filled my computer screen. Can't get it any larger than that.

Jack

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

Mark: Note the NAPA filter P/N 3039 attached with magnet to catch any rust the filter might miss. It's much better than the micro filter that has the fine mesh that most suppliers sell for the Model A. This works great
for the glass bowl like the one you are getting.

Jack

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

Mark, this was meant to go with last post. SEDIMENT BOWL WITH NAPA FILTER.jpg

[Jason in TX]

Glad you found the problem!

Cool tip on the magnet filter. The micro filters just restrict the fuel flow. I had trouble running my totally clean tank using a micro filter and gravity feed.

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

Amen!


Jack

[msmaron]

Well after all that, the flow still did not improve. Took of the gas line again and this time took off the shut off. WOW>...NO flow at all, seems i pre-judged and was ive Bombing" for corrections. bad move and lesson learned. Seems an OLD CORK Float has come apart and was blocking everything.. we had to drain the tank and get that cork out, NO easy task at all. Ken Ehrenhofer was the master behind the "clinic" and after running water and air for almost 2 hours we got what we think was all of it.. NOT to mention the REPO gas cap that i bought was also NOT venting properly and when on tight restricted the flow another 20%, so with all that we were getting drippings of gas. Put on an original, cleaned the tank and drained again, finally filled and back together and that 14 year old flow was THERE!! We can write our name in the snow!!!

Thanks to all who assisted with advice and Ken Ehrenhofer for his intelligence and "LOGICAL" troubleshooting that got this fixed, it is running nice now and with the timing re-set seems all is good to go..

a

[Jason in TX]

Great news! Thanks for updating us! Glad you guys used the K.I.S.S. method.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by msmaron

Well after all that, the flow still did not improve. Took of the gas line again and this time took off the shut off. WOW>...NO flow at all, seems i pre-judged and was ive Bombing" for corrections. bad move and lesson learned. Seems an OLD CORK Float has come apart and was blocking everything..
Thanks to all who assisted with advice and Ken Ehrenhofer for his intelligence and "LOGICAL" troubleshooting that got this fixed, it is running nice now and with the timing re-set seems all is good to go..

a

Well, Mark, it looks like now you will be driving to French lick??? As I mentioned in a previous post, both of my late '31s had a ton of stuff in that horizontal pipe to the valve restricting flow. My crud wasn't cork, though. Was the cork junk all saturated and sunk or did some of it still float? If you think about it, that horizontal pipe is like a sediment bowl before the valve that has been collecting unnoticed for 79 years.

Kudos to Ken Ehrenhofer for getting it cleaned out. Ken has one awesome "A" garage, and wife Helen who does an awesome job as editor of the M.A.R.C. Model A News.