The Ford Barn

Peter J · 10-29-2010, 09:10 AM

I'm in the process of redoing the valves and I found the #8 (exaust) collar partially broken. It looks like someone broke the casting when removing the guide. The old guide seemed tight and aligned but I'm worried about the guide's exposure to the exaust gasses. I'm thinking of building it up with JB Weld to restore support. What do you guys think of it holding up in the temps. or would it melt down and make a big mess?
Thanks for your comments
Pete

John S · 10-29-2010, 09:28 AM

I wouldn't do it.
J-B Weld has it's place but that ain't it IMO. If the guide has only a very small place broken leave it alone. If the spot is big enough to need repair then replace it.

You would be asking a lot of an epoxy compound to repair a stressed part in the harsh
environment of an engine crankcase.

Glenn C. · 10-29-2010, 10:27 AM

Don't try to fool with it.....replace it with a new one, or find someone in your area that has a coffe can full of used ones sitting on a shelf. Try to keep the guides in matched pairs.

Peter J · 10-29-2010, 11:17 AM

What I'm talking about is the block rather than the guide itself thats chipped out. It looks like someone whacked the block trying to knock out the guide. I've also got a rusted in guide I'm trying to get also.
Pete

John S · 10-29-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter J

What I'm talking about is the block rather than the guide itself thats chipped out. It looks like someone whacked the block trying to knock out the guide. I've also got a rusted in guide I'm trying to get also.
Pete

Can you post a picture?

Larry Seemann · 10-29-2010, 11:53 AM

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Pete, The valve guide itself is just as tough as the block surrounding it - they are both cast iron. And they are both tougher than anything you could put in there to repair the damage, such as epoxy (JB Weld) or brazing. If the guide stays in place you're in business and there isn't anything else you can do. If the guide won't stay in place you're looking at major surgery or a replacement block.

TinCup · 10-29-2010, 11:59 AM

You are talking about the boss that is a part of the block not guide inserts correct?

MikeK · 10-29-2010, 12:42 PM

If it caused no problems for thousands of miles before you discovered the irregularity, why try to fix what was not a problem? I've seen track motors from the 40's with those "collar" protrusions and the guides cut down in an effort to get more port flow. There is no water in them, and as long as there is no crack extending outward you are fine. If it was a 5000 rpm race build and you needed to match port flows you might be concerned.

Peter J · 10-29-2010, 02:26 PM

The guide is tight in the boss and the valve moves freely. Thanks for the advice! I'll just let the critter alone. Any ideas of getting a guide out that's frozen (rusted) in other than cutting the valve off and drilling it out? Presently, I'm soaking it in MMO and pound on it (with a romover) now and then.
Thanks again guys
Pete

pat in Santa Cruz · 10-29-2010, 03:26 PM

you didn't say which guide remover you are using. the long ones with the bend around the valve face only work on loose guides. the best removers are designed after the KR Wilson original style, and are mushroom shaped ,fit around the stem and under the valve head. lots of good penetrant like kroil or pb blaster, time and patience will eventually get them out. mmo is not a good penetrant.

1931 flamingo · 10-29-2010, 07:39 PM

Many have reported that a mixture of acetone and automatice transmission fluid works better than what you're using.
Paul in CT

Peter J · 10-29-2010, 10:05 PM

Thanks. I give your ideas a try. I ordered a set of new guides so I have awhile before they come in. I'll just keep soaking it and be patient. If that doesn't work, I'll invest, or borrow the mushroom remover.

Pete

Jazzjr · 10-29-2010, 11:45 PM

For $15 dollars, You can buy this Duplicate of the K.R. Wilson style original remover. I have one, spray the old guide under the valve with penetrating oil, wait 5 minutes, out the guide will come. And I have had some that were really froze, using a Ford Wrench, with a little Pressure, they all came out.

Peter J · 10-31-2010, 09:21 AM

Hey guys. I got the guide out! I soaked it with WD-40, MMO and penetrating oil and left it overnight. Next morning it popped out. I also used a bigger hammer.
Thanks for all your help!
Pete

10-29-2010, 09:10 AM	#1
Peter J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 691	Valve guide collar I'm in the process of redoing the valves and I found the #8 (exaust) collar partially broken. It looks like someone broke the casting when removing the guide. The old guide seemed tight and aligned but I'm worried about the guide's exposure to the exaust gasses. I'm thinking of building it up with JB Weld to restore support. What do you guys think of it holding up in the temps. or would it melt down and make a big mess? Thanks for your comments Pete

10-29-2010, 09:28 AM	#2
John S Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Ellis County, Texas Posts: 337	Re: Valve guide collar I wouldn't do it. J-B Weld has it's place but that ain't it IMO. If the guide has only a very small place broken leave it alone. If the spot is big enough to need repair then replace it. You would be asking a lot of an epoxy compound to repair a stressed part in the harsh environment of an engine crankcase. Last edited by John S; 10-29-2010 at 09:45 AM.

10-29-2010, 10:27 AM	#3
Glenn C. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Didsbury Alberta Posts: 838	Re: Valve guide collar Don't try to fool with it.....replace it with a new one, or find someone in your area that has a coffe can full of used ones sitting on a shelf. Try to keep the guides in matched pairs.

10-29-2010, 11:17 AM	#4
Peter J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 691	Re: Valve guide collar What I'm talking about is the block rather than the guide itself thats chipped out. It looks like someone whacked the block trying to knock out the guide. I've also got a rusted in guide I'm trying to get also. Pete

10-29-2010, 11:53 AM	#6
Larry Seemann Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA. Posts: 496	Re: Valve guide collar Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Pete, The valve guide itself is just as tough as the block surrounding it - they are both cast iron. And they are both tougher than anything you could put in there to repair the damage, such as epoxy (JB Weld) or brazing. If the guide stays in place you're in business and there isn't anything else you can do. If the guide won't stay in place you're looking at major surgery or a replacement block. __________________ Larry Seemann

10-29-2010, 11:59 AM	#7
TinCup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok. Posts: 1,977	Re: Valve guide collar You are talking about the boss that is a part of the block not guide inserts correct?

10-29-2010, 12:42 PM	#8
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Valve guide collar If it caused no problems for thousands of miles before you discovered the irregularity, why try to fix what was not a problem? I've seen track motors from the 40's with those "collar" protrusions and the guides cut down in an effort to get more port flow. There is no water in them, and as long as there is no crack extending outward you are fine. If it was a 5000 rpm race build and you needed to match port flows you might be concerned.

10-29-2010, 02:26 PM	#9
Peter J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 691	Re: Valve guide collar The guide is tight in the boss and the valve moves freely. Thanks for the advice! I'll just let the critter alone. Any ideas of getting a guide out that's frozen (rusted) in other than cutting the valve off and drilling it out? Presently, I'm soaking it in MMO and pound on it (with a romover) now and then. Thanks again guys Pete

10-29-2010, 03:26 PM	#10
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Valve guide collar you didn't say which guide remover you are using. the long ones with the bend around the valve face only work on loose guides. the best removers are designed after the KR Wilson original style, and are mushroom shaped ,fit around the stem and under the valve head. lots of good penetrant like kroil or pb blaster, time and patience will eventually get them out. mmo is not a good penetrant.

10-29-2010, 07:39 PM	#11
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Valve guide collar Many have reported that a mixture of acetone and automatice transmission fluid works better than what you're using. Paul in CT

10-29-2010, 10:05 PM	#12
Peter J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 691	Re: Valve guide collar Thanks. I give your ideas a try. I ordered a set of new guides so I have awhile before they come in. I'll just keep soaking it and be patient. If that doesn't work, I'll invest, or borrow the mushroom remover. Pete

10-29-2010, 11:45 PM	#13
Jazzjr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Crown Point, NY and Punta Gorda, FL. Posts: 259	Re: Valve guide collar For $15 dollars, You can buy this Duplicate of the K.R. Wilson style original remover. I have one, spray the old guide under the valve with penetrating oil, wait 5 minutes, out the guide will come. And I have had some that were really froze, using a Ford Wrench, with a little Pressure, they all came out.

10-31-2010, 09:21 AM	#14
Peter J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 691	Re: Valve guide collar Hey guys. I got the guide out! I soaked it with WD-40, MMO and penetrating oil and left it overnight. Next morning it popped out. I also used a bigger hammer. Thanks for all your help! Pete