title problem

[grey46]

I bought a 1929 Ford Coupe with a clear current Tenn. title When I tried to get it in my name in Illinois after 3 months they said the vin on the Tenn title is for a 30 not a 29 and now are telling me I will have to do a bonded title . The Tenn title has it as a 1929 Ford Coupe with vin # A4140858 can someone tell me if that is a 30 or 29 vin number. Illinois is broke and they are now pulling every title on cars 25 years or older,they already have all the fee's for the title app,but if I have to get a bonded title they will get all the fees again,I think its just a money making scam by the state,any way if some one can tell me if its a 29 or 30 vin it would be a huge help. Thanks in advance and heres my email ([email protected])

[Mike V. Florida]

Smart DMV, the engine was produced in November 1930.

As a matter of fact, Engine #4140858 was made on Nov 17, 1930

[Stick Shift]

3 months? I just did my 28 and I am very nervous about what the future will be for an IL title on this car. I have heard of so many problems that is getting ridiculous what we got to go through.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you have to do a bonded title, then you should be able to keep the old title, so you can sell it on ebay for big bucks. I had to do 2 bonded titles for 2 of my Model A's and it cost me $500, took 18 months and involved making several trips back and forth between the bonding company and the DMV.

You might try a small town DMV. I've heard guys around here have better luck with them.

[82B in WA]

Is the serial number (VIN #) on the engine or frame or both. The Vin number you listed is for a November 1930 Model A. Throughout the years it was pretty much a standard practice to change an engine and have the title changed to match the newly installed engine. In my state, at one time they only listed the engine number on the title. For an example, i have a late 1931 Pickup with a serial number of 1929 and I also have an older title for this vehicle thea dates back to around 1950 where it listed this serial number only as the engine number without a VIN number.
We do have some understanding folks in out DOV Licensing but I have not yet went in and had it corrected. They may ask me to lift the cab to review the chassis serial number and after spending 4 years restoring it, I am not willing to do so at this time. I guess I am fortunate as I still have the older serial numbered block, which is no good but kept it just for that reason. Good luck, Dick B.

[1931 flamingo]

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Luckily when I recently registered my 31 with a current valid MA title, the "gentleman" at DMV came out to do VIN verification (late 31, indented, eng built 4-1-31), he asked "Where is it?". Over the years I've come across some real prxxks at CT DMV, so was a little anxious this time, but e/thing went well. Just my experience.
Paul in CT

[allen]

If the title has 29 on it then it is a 29, i dint care about the motor, my 29 has my own made number, and its title 29, You need to fight this call you state capital ,and talk to title division what they are doing is wrong, if this is the case ever one who has install a new motor in there car needs to go back and bond the unit, crazy, Three times i call the capital down here three times i won and got my title , you need to call armed look up you state dmv laws, look into vintage not new cars here where i won, they treat old cars like new and the rule do not apply, example is the vin number not 17 like all new cars, the tenth digit gives and car motorcycle its year, US law not state, this is just one thing why you can not go by motor numbers, Pull you pants up, get a cup of coffee, charge your phone up and go to work, the law is on your side, sick them

[Cool Hand Lurker]

This is why you should never change the number on the title. When the vehicle left the factory the motor and frame numbers matched and this was the number of the completed vehicle that went on the title. From that point on the motor is only a part of the vehicle. Treat it like a part. If it is replaced with a used motor from another car then change the number on the motor to match the vehicle number on the title. Keep the old block so nobody else can put it in their car and use that number for title purposes.

Now somebody will chime in here and say that changing the motor number is altering the serial number of the car and therefore illegal. Wrong. The serial number of the car is the original number of the vehicle as was on the original title. Leave the title alone, make the replacement part (motor) match the vehicle/title number or leave it blank and rely on the frame number alone. You can stamp a duplicate on a crossmember for ease of viewing, but if the DMV ever wants to see the number on the original location then jack up the body and show it to them.

This keeps the original correct number assigned to the total vehicle and greatly simplifies things when dealing with the DMV people.

[CWPASADENA]

This is getting to be more of a problem with computerized records.

It is too bad that Henry did not stamp the Frame Numbers on the Model A where they can be seen when the car is assembled. For many years, a lot of Model A's were re-registered with the number that was on the engine when the old paper work and title was lost and often times the engine had already been replaced and had a number that was different from the frame numbers. Starting in '32, the frame number was visable and the "engine" number was stamped on the flywheel housing on the 4 Cyl cars and the transmission case on the V-8 Cars. If the engine was replaced, the numbers were not lost or screwed up.

Good Luck!

Chris

[grey46]

I have a friend that got a 29 sedan 2 weeks after I got mine ,been almost 3 months and has heard nuthing,you will love the one and only lady that handels this . Your title will end up in Mt Vernon Illinois on her desk. Good Luck.

[grey46]

Things have dramaticaly changed in Illinois ,I called everywhere for 3 weeks and all I got was "They" said to pull all old titles out of the system. They now end up in Mt Vernon Illinois on one lady's desk and she is the title god ,whatever she decides is the way it go's and seemingly you have no recourse except how she decides its gonna be.

[roccaas]

I saw in this month's "Hemmings Classic Cars" a service to register your car in Montana. Could this be the future, "States of Convenience" like "Flags of Convenience" in shipping.

Luckily in GA we register under whatever number is on the engine and no title is issued.

[Rowdy]

The bonded title here only took about 2 weeks after I started the proccess and was with all expenses figured $185. I wanted to get it while it was still unrestored so the bond was not too high. I likely would have gone through a title service if I would not have wanted to substantiate its local herritage. Rod

[sonny30coupe]

Frank the Plumber is right on the title issue. If there 2 of them you are screwed. I dont understand how people buy titles and then dont run into problem with them later if the car was already licensed in another state.

[Rowdy]

I have to agree here. Let the proccess play itself out. With conflicting title laws state to state there are sometimes bound to be problems. One state will requuire it to be the engine # and the next state will require it to be the frame # and another may issue you a tag to put on the door jamb or firewall. Titles for older cars can get to be a mess. I hightly doubt all of the states will ever get together and procede to make them uniform. I am glad the delivery has matchiing #'s. Rod

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

...your numbers are not all clear, you have a title, you have a vehicle with numbers, do they match?
.

Frank, if you re-read the original post, his numbers DO match the title "The Tenn title has it as a 1929 Ford Coupe with vin # A4140858" "When I tried to get it in my name in Illinois after 3 months they said the vin on the Tenn title is for a 30 not a 29"

The trouble is that the DMV says the title from Tenn is wrong and the will not honor it.

It appears that someone in the past changed the motor and had it retitled with the new number, exactly what most people think you should do when you change the motor. Look where it got him!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Yep, that's why it's so good to keep the original engine with the car, even if it takes resleeving to use it.

[MikeK]

If you ever swap engines, or get down to the frame
and the numbers don't match your title, Wire Paladin.

[Rowdy]

Unfortunately this is not standard state to state. Law here requires that if you change the engine you then have to gat an "Assembled Vehicle Title". Too me as long as it is is the same size as the original and not a SBC or something like that, what does it really matter to the state, other than the fact they use the engine # as the VIN. I think an assigned stamped plate would be a better fix to the situation. Rod

[grey46]

Frank
First let me thank you for your concern over my emotional state as you have mentioned it in each of your posts. Im 63 years old and have a pretty good idea on how to communicate with the powers that be,and have been more than civil and gracious with all state people Ive talked to,and rest assured Im not as frustrated as you seem to think nor am I pizzy. I am also more than willing to provide any information you might want and can post as often as you would like . I havent seen any real advice or help other than I need to calm down ,get a grip ,etc. My original post only asked for the Vin info and I was relating my story as I would in a friends garage ,of course Im not happy, I dont think thats any differant then anyone would feel. Mike was correct in saying the motor probably got switched at some point and the title was updated,obviously not a good plan as it turns out . But I think Illinois is using any thing they can find to make us get bonded titles,they not only hold the bond money for 3 years ,but get additional tax money and all application fees a second time .Plus at some point I imagine they will want to see the numbers on the frame which as you know will involve at least lifting the body not a pleasent prospect as the car is completely assembled at this time. Thanks for your concern and help. Respectfully Doug

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

This should be an easy, from a legal and paperwork fix, if he has a title that matches either the block or the frame he should have a clean piece of property.

That is exactly what he thought in his first post. He did not understand why if the numbers on the car matched the current non expired title, why would it make any difference if the motor was '28,'29,'30, or '31.

I too think they are looking for any way to make a buck!

[allen]

I tried to follow frank the plummer, but could not, mike is right the state will not honor another state title, there is the rub with me, if it cleared Tenn it should clear the other 49 states unless i woke up this morning in Russia,
there are laws which apply to all states, if there was two title numbers in the system Tenn would not have given him a title period, and i would think no other state either

[37fatfender]

It does not sound to me as if you are taking my advice to relax and follow the process .

Why are you defending the state of Illinois on this........I have no idea what there motives on this are.....I for one think this is nothing more than government harassment. I personally know a guy who has owned a 56 Buick for 25 years who last month had his title pulled. Any answers for that Frank the Plumber........? This state is run by crooks, govenors in jail....and...Public officials walking in front of trains after padding their pocket with Half million of our dollars.
It took another friend over a year to get his 32 Roadster re-titled after Springfield took it from him. He bought the car with a clean IL title and had the car a year and was then told send us the title or else........Relax my butt..........Revolt.........

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Boy o boy, I'm glad its not that tough up here! But you still need to know your way around the system. Certainly, some DMV offices up here are more helpful than others, so we pick and choose the easy route.

[Mr.34]

This is a common problem with cars from some of the southern states like GA that did not start using certificates of title until about mid 80's. I just brought a 40 from GA to MN and the VIN # was in fact not a 1940 # and the DMV was on the ball and caught it. Real VIN can no longer be found as the front suspension was rebuilt (street rod) covering the origianal VIN and only other place it appears is on frame under rear of body (LOL). After my inspection I was qualified for a MN generated VIN # which there is no charge, but the surety bond goes for $10 per $1000 of actual price paid and this was one pricey ride. The state gets zero out of this but State Farm does and I have to have bond for 3 years to protect both the strate and me just in case the car was stolen at one time. I spoke to the origianal builder and I have data showing provenance on body and frame.

I have a friend in Chicago who brought a new Vette up from GA and it took him 3 months to get title approved in IL. Sounds like IL is worse than MN. My drama is going on its 4th month and soon to be over.

[Paul from Maine]

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You can move to Maine where all you need is a bill of sale, an insurance card and 25 bucks plus the plate fee to register anything older than 25 years. You don't even need an inspection stickah. Evah. Only cars less than 15 yrs old need a title in Maine. Plus we only have emission testing in our two most southern counties. When your CAT plugs up around here, you just chisel it off and replace it with a straight pipe. I've never had anyone verify a VIN # either. The nearest DMV is 45 minutes away, so we register and title our cars at the town hall at the same counter where we pay our property taxes, git our huntin' licenses and register to vote. So all you Fordbarners who have trouble with your state's, you should consider movin' to Maine. We don't worry about the DMV, cause you can't get there from here, if you live in Maine!

[Stick Shift]

IL has been real terrible this last year with old titles. I know of two local guys having major problems. It sounds like one after a year and half is getting his title. His car has been finished after a year and was not able to drive or title it. The other guy is putting his car together then taking it down state for the inspection or appraisal so he can get a title.

I can't wait for the fun to begin. I will take all of Frank the Plumbers advice and stay calm and roll with the stuff that is going to happen.

[dcline3037]

Some of you folks should move to North Dakota! My '28 Roadster was the easiest and cheapest of all my vehicles to register/title. Brought it back from NM a few weeks ago-brought a pair of YOM plates I had purchased a few months ago and it was over in minutes - a quick check on the web to ensure the plates were not duplicates - $10 once in a LIFE-TIME registration and nobody even had to look at the car. Easy!

[dan]

Originally Posted by dcline3037

Some of you folks should move to North Dakota! My '28 Roadster was the easiest and cheapest of all my vehicles to register/title. Brought it back from NM a few weeks ago-brought a pair of YOM plates I had purchased a few months ago and it was over in minutes - a quick check on the web to ensure the plates were not duplicates - $10 once in a LIFE-TIME registration and nobody even had to look at the car. Easy!

Sure registration might be easy, but the winters ((shudder))--I'm not sure I'd be willing to trade California winters for cheap/easy registration

[Paul from Maine]

Originally Posted by dcline3037

Some of you folks should move to North Dakota! My '28 Roadster was the easiest and cheapest of all my vehicles to register/title. Brought it back from NM a few weeks ago-brought a pair of YOM plates I had purchased a few months ago and it was over in minutes - a quick check on the web to ensure the plates were not duplicates - $10 once in a LIFE-TIME registration and nobody even had to look at the car. Easy!

I guess we should all move to North Dakota! I thought 25 bucks a year in Maine was cheap, but 10 bucks for a lifetime... I could aford to have all five of my untitled A's and T's on the road at the same time!

[Desi]

Frank - thanks for your detailed responses. This should help when I go to get a title for the restored car I have.

[Paul from Maine]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

You guys see the avatar is my truck, its lettered, in Illinois I cannot put an antique plate on it because it is lettered, I have to run a B plate $225, Im also in Chicago were I have to buy a Chitty sticker so I can park on the worst streets in the world, Add $200. The tax on the sale of a vehicle is $25 for all over 25 years, however, now we are going to have to bond all of them. We pay 10 3/4% sales tax, and we're still broke. I don't think you should be telling too many folks how good and cheap it is to live in your little piece of paradise, all the people from my state will run to it in droves and wreck it. I can't even feel them they are so numb.

Is that 10 3/4% sales tax state or city or both? What is a "B" plate? What is a "Chitty" sticker? Is that $200 a one time fee or annual? Man, I thought we had it bad here with a 5% sales tax and a state income tax, 'cause next door in New Hampshire they have no sales tax and no personal income tax. But boy, you guys sure have it bad in the Land of Lincoln. How do you guys afford to live?

[37fatfender]

Frank, Check your facts the $25 transfer fee on old cars is gone.......they now will place an arbitrary value on your car and that is what tax you will pay. I bought a 40 Ford in California went to the currency exchange paid the 25 bucks.........later recieved a bill for $646 dollars from the Sec of State. When I call the S of S they said I had to pay the fair market value of a 40 Ford. I ask how they new that.......no answer. They didn't care if it was a basket case or a Ridler car.......

How did the state know You had lettering on your truck?

[grey46]

I dealt with this on another car a year ago .It had a CLEAR current Neb title ,matching vin visible on frame rail .Reason given for title check was seller had signed off 45 days before I applied for title ,even with a clear correct vin they wanted a bonded title ,only reason I was ever told was the time between sign off and my attempt to title was too long. Now its because the vin is for a 30 and car is a 29 ,I explained in a very calm and semi-knowledgeable manner that it was common practice to change tile when swapping motors ,and asked if there was any way to contact Tenn DMV to see if they could / would provide verification the car was legal ,have gotten no response to that,Tenn also attached a vin tag to door jam that reflects current vin on title ,not good enough for Illinois (or at least the lady in charge) Calling Springfield offices gets nuthing except "they are pulling all titles on cars over 25 years old and thats all we know. The last email I have gotten from the "lady" reads as follows
Quote
"Sellers info matches the title.The vin tag is a fake one.Unless the original frame is under the vehical,we can not use that vin for the vehical.Also the vin is not for a 1929 Ford ,it is for a 1930 Ford.Let me know if the original chassis is under the car (and not modified) If not you will have to apply for a bonded title and new vin assignment " unquote.
Havent heard back since ,but did find info indicating on other sites that Illinois is now also pulling all out of state titles as well as the 25 year deal. I would like my cars to be all legal like anyone would but it just seems to be getting very costly,time and labor intensive,and I did have one state employee say off the record that DMV has discovered a gold mine. So for the moment I remaining very calm almost zen like untill I hear more... Doug

[grey46]

37
Not bad they got me for $1600.00 on a basket case roller 55 Chevy I offered to trailer it to an inspection station to be valued and they said no need market value is $25,000.00 and that was the end of that..

[37fatfender]

Frank, I just spent 45 minutes on the IL S of S website. Apparently they do not give out forms over the internet. One of the following forms will tip you off on how they value old cars........they are RUT25, RUT50, or ST556. I am not sure which one. I did see one though and they intend on getting every dollar they can. Good Luck.

[grey46]

Frank
No sir havent .The first car they refused the title on was a pretty ruff 26 Coupe ,after recieving their bonded paper work ( they now have a kit all ready for you)and reseaching the current process and cost it wasnt a viable option. Work and money involved was gonna be more than the car was in my opion worth. Sold it with no title.just bill of sale to a gentelman in Missouri and 2 days latter he called and had a title .Im now thinking the only way at least for now to have an old car in Illinois is to just find one you like here thats already got a current Illinois title .My buddy with the 29 sedan still hasnt even heard anything and is pretty concerned as his had an out of state title as well,I will post here when ever he hears anything.

[37fatfender]

Having an IL title guarantees NOTHING, as I said in earlier posts, I know first hand a guy with a 56 Buick who has owned it for 25 YEARS, is currently being put thru the ringer, and another close friend who bought a 32 roadster with a clear IL title and spent a year getting a title and plates. When he finally got the State Rep to come to his place to install the new Vin tag, he used a cordlless drill, pop rivets, scratched the paint and installed it crooked on the A pillar. He must also have a decal on his windshield indicating that it is a reconstructed car. Nice detail.....huh! This woman in Springfield has quite a reputation and word is not to piss her off......Well tell me why it should be this way?. What does her personality have to do with any ot this? There ought to be a defined administrative procedure for all of us to follow IF NECCESSARY, otherwise J White and his crew shouldn't be bothering us.

[Terry, NJ]

Frank, You and others have scared last night's supper out of me! I bought my 1930 Town Sedan in NJ. No problem to title it, Done! I'm moving to Pa. where they verify
VIN #. So,s I goes out with my electric drill,. with a brush and clean off the number boss on the block. OOOPZ They don't match! Not even close! OK so the engine has been changed! Next I go to a buddy's and start looking at old (and rusty) frames. I couldn't find one VIN. A couple of the frames wern't that rusty.
Next, Can I buy one of those plates they sell, number it, and attach it to the firewall and have it accepted in Pa.? I realise that maybe you can't answer this question from Illinois. Is there somewhere I can go (Website, etc) to find out.
If not what do I do. Sell the car in NJ, Maine, or Tenn?
Regards, Terry

[Tom Wesenberg]

I was born in IL and lived near Joliet until I was 5. Every time I drive through IL I think it looks like a nice state to live in, but with the title problems and politics of IL I may have to rethink that.

[Terry, NJ]

If this were me (and it may soon be) I would be a raving maniac. This sounds like something NJ would dream up to raise money. Their favorite stunt used to be the "outstanding parking ticket" Scam. They would "find" an old parking ticket in a name similiar to yours and then rovoke your license for failure to show up in court. Then charge you $100 to reinstate your license, after you paid the ticket fines. Coincidentally, the only "Crimes" that don't expire in NJ are murder and parking tickets. A lot of heat was brought to bear on the legistlature and this corrupt practice was ended. States that are cash strapped are using any and all means to raise money now. I think you're right. it is just to raise money. Why else just go after titles that are 25 years ands older? Has there been a problem? Did they have a rash of antique cars beeing stolen and re-titled illegally? And most importantly, Do they consider antique car owners to be too small a voting block to worry about?
Regards, Terry

Originally Posted by grey46

I dealt with this on another car a year ago .It had a CLEAR current Neb title ,matching vin visible on frame rail .Reason given for title check was seller had signed off 45 days before I applied for title ,even with a clear correct vin they wanted a bonded title ,only reason I was ever told was the time between sign off and my attempt to title was too long. Now its because the vin is for a 30 and car is a 29 ,I explained in a very calm and semi-knowledgeable manner that it was common practice to change tile when swapping motors ,and asked if there was any way to contact Tenn DMV to see if they could / would provide verification the car was legal ,have gotten no response to that,Tenn also attached a vin tag to door jam that reflects current vin on title ,not good enough for Illinois (or at least the lady in charge) Calling Springfield offices gets nuthing except "they are pulling all titles on cars over 25 years old and thats all we know. The last email I have gotten from the "lady" reads as follows
Quote
"Sellers info matches the title.The vin tag is a fake one.Unless the original frame is under the vehical,we can not use that vin for the vehical.Also the vin is not for a 1929 Ford ,it is for a 1930 Ford.Let me know if the original chassis is under the car (and not modified) If not you will have to apply for a bonded title and new vin assignment " unquote.
Havent heard back since ,but did find info indicating on other sites that Illinois is now also pulling all out of state titles as well as the 25 year deal. I would like my cars to be all legal like anyone would but it just seems to be getting very costly,time and labor intensive,and I did have one state employee say off the record that DMV has discovered a gold mine. So for the moment I remaining very calm almost zen like untill I hear more... Doug

[dan]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

And most importantly, Do they consider antique car owners to be too small a voting block to worry about?
Regards, Terry

Terry, I think you have clearly hit the nail on the head. With governments everywhere strapped for cash, and people fed up with the constant cycle of tax increases, expect to see taxes and fees that can be accessed against small groups to go up and up and up. When legislatures know that the general populace isn't going to put up with it any more, they're looking for creative ways of "increasing revenue" that won't have citizens in the capitols looking for tall trees and rope.

To paraphrase Niemöller:

First they raised taxes on businesses, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a business owner.

Then they imposed fees on recycling, and I didn't speak up, because I don't recycle. ;-)

Then they raised taxes on antique cars and there was no one left to speak up.

[grey46]

I have talked to a couple friends that have dealers licenses and they are very aware of the "Lady" I was told that if a title app is put in thru a dealer somehow it completely circumvents her and will go thru just as you would expect. Do you or anyone have any info to back that up. Perhaps another option

[Terry, NJ]

Frank, I for one, appreciate your patience in writing out these long, detailed answers. I think the original poster was gob smacked (as i was) at the thought of all this ardous labor in getting our cars legally titled. I am not patient! More delay in the process makes me question the value
of bothering to complete it. Why not just unload it and get another car with a better title and let someone , whose got more patience, else play with it.
I had never heard of "bonding" a title before. I don';t know if this applicable in all states or only a few. Thanks again for your input!
Regards, Terry

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

it seems as though this thread is getting buried, i hope not, it has been very educational, if we cant drive these cars we need none of the rest of this, Im not building them to bounce my lawnmower off them or put my lawn chairs on.

[Stick Shift]

Ok so I go through this process and a couple of years later I get a title. I drive the car a year or two then decide to sell it. Now I want to know will another state except this IL title and vin#? I thought I read somewhere above that some one bought an out of state car with a new tag and it was not excepted.

I live about a half mile from the WI border and I think maybe a move across the border may be easier. LOL

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by Stick Shift

Ok so I go through this process and a couple of years later I get a title. I drive the car a year or two then decide to sell it. Now I want to know will another state except this IL title and vin#? I thought I read somewhere above that some one bought an out of state car with a new tag and it was not excepted.

I live about a half mile from the WI border and I think maybe a move across the border may be easier. LOL

Remember that this thread started because a owner of a car had a valid, legal, up to date title that the state of Il. decided they would not honor.

So could another state reject your title, hell yea!!!

[grey46]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

I dont have any info on that, I think there are two separate departments and two separate ladys, I dont think you got your title held up at the same dept. mine was sent to. I would bet that the dealers get a different dept. but if we punch the paper work thru on a dealer whats to say they don't just pull us review us and reject us. I sent one thru on the currency exchange and had it back in three weeks right around Jan. I sold that car a week later. You may get your title back and plate her but you may get your title pulled. So here is the million dollar question.... when you guys or your friends had their titles pulled what happened to your ability to plate and drive your cars during this process?

When I declined the bonded title process on the 26 Ford,within 3 bussiness days I got a letter telling me to immediatly return my current plates,and registration to the S.S. of I would face felony charges.

[37fatfender]

In the case of my friend who has had this happen to 2 of his cars, One car has been re vinned, titled and plated, took over a year. This was for a car with a clear IL title that he had own over a year. The other car still no resolve. During this limbo (waiting) they are no longer cars. They become a commodity, they cannot be driven, sold or transported out of the state of IL.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

Thats the part that really bites, I can understand why they are doing this title pulling, there are a lot of questionable autos out there, for a new title, I painfully suppose they can justify their tax, for a car a guy owns or has owned for a long time, for them to come along and say park it for a year buddy and pay us this and buy a bond, what the FFFF. This is the great joy of living in a state that sends all of its governors to prison, or so they claim, I see the last one jogging down the street all the time with not a care in the world. What can we do, we are being taxed to oblivion just like a pack of cigarettes.

The corruption of our governments at every level is almost total! It's time to "water the tree", I think!
Regards, Terry

[Earle]

Good luck, grey46. I hope the process quickly works itself out for you. Once you get snagged in the quicksand at DMV, you're now on their radar screen and at their mercy. You have no choice but to follow through. Be civil and respectful. They are not the folks you want to aggravate if you ever want to get that precious title!

Delaware is one of the tough nit-picking states with titles and registrations. I inherited my dad's '31 roadster 9 years ago and moved it from NJ to Delaware. When I tried to get a DE title and Reg., I was "thrilled" to discover that, during his earlier restoration, Dad had swapped engines and never informed NJ DMV! Thanks, Dad! The DE DMV clerk came out to "inspect" the car and saw that the VIN on the NJ title did NOT match the SN on the engine and the games began. At my extreme inconvenience, I had to lift the body for them only to discover that the frame-stamped SN had long ago worn and corroded away. But because the body was lifted while in a shop in PA having work done (Schwalms), The PA State Police got involved and their stolen vehicle department sent a trooper to the shop to verify that there was no SN on the frame. They then took months to run down the NJ and engine SN's and then coordinate with the DE stolen vehicle department. Lo and behold, my car was not stolen (thank God!)! But DE would NOT allow the current engine SN to be used as the car's new DE title VIN. They required that a special metal plaque be attached to the firewall (pretty!) with a new "synthetic VIN".

Oh well, 6 months of this boloney, plus getting to pay a huge amount DE "vehicle transfer tax" on the car's restored value, now allows me the "privilige" of driving and enjoyong this beautiful and fun car.

I do think that the powers to be do not like old cars being on the highways (especially the "safety", "environmentallist" and power-hungry buracartic types) and they will make owning and operating our cars increasingly difficult until they kill the hobby altogether. (Same game plan with law-abiding gun owners these days).

Hang in there. You'll get through it all - just not very quickly...

Earle

[grey46]

Earl
Im just waiting to here from them again,have heard nuthing for a couple weeks. Im sure soon I will get a letter saying I HAVE to get a bonded title and try to get a new vin issued . That will be followed by pulling the current registration and plates ,which means the car will just sit for however long it might take . Ive decided Im not going to have a car just sit in the garage for possibly months,and fight the state.If / when they make it impossible to enjoy the car ,I will most likly just sell it and take up a less political hobby.

[Earle]

Grey46 (Doug?), We all sure hope you stick it out and follow through with the long, irritating process. You'll be proud of yourself as a real "veteran" and survivor of the antique car political wars. And once you've been "initiated" into the hobby and gone through the DMV "Hazing process", you'll love owning and operating your Model A and the history it represents.

BUT! - If you sadly do decide to sell the car - Can you really sell it now that you are on the DMV's radar screen as having an "improperly-documented vehicle" that can not be legally sold or transfered? - Sure hope not!

Keep us informed.

Earle

[Paul from Maine]

See attached the complicated paperwork someone must fill out in Maine to register a Model A.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

In my state (Mass.) you need a previous registration or a title in order to apply for a new title and the sales tax is computed frrom the current N.A.D.A. value which is sometimes a lot higher than what you actually paid, that's even if the car is a basket case. If you buy from a Mass. licensed dealer they will honor the sales price. After they approve you for a title and you pay the sales tax the car can be registered. I guess we're lucky we're not in some other states.

[Kevin in NJ]

First off Il sounds like a true nightmare. I hope it does not catch on to other states.

All your troubles were the realization that people were doing the Alabama title thing.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...itle_a_hot_rod

I have always found good info on this rod site

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/

Some rules of old car buying and titling.

Never lie. That being said make sure your story has no holes- Do your homework!!!!

ALWAYS know the legal places for the VIN and always check that they match or match by the time someone has to check them.

[Paul from Maine]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

The corruption of our governments at every level is almost total! It's time to "water the tree", I think!
Regards, Terry

Are you, perchance, quoting our esteemed third president?

[scott 351 wins]

on the hamb this came up too

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=468816

[Terry, NJ]

Does anyone know or have any stories to tell about how hard it is to register a Mod A in Pa.? It is not much of a problem in NJ, but they rarely want verification of serial numbers. However, my experience in Pa is that they verify the numbers. And my very limited experience with Mod A fords shows me that more often than not, the S.Ns are corroded away as mentioned by another poster. If this is the case, What do I do?
Terry NJ (pa)

[tamagrouchy]

I've been watching this thread and I want to remind ALL brother (and sister) hobbiests, that WE are a pretty large special interest group. i.e. WRITE your representatives and let them know you will NOT tolerate this new form of harassment. For those who's states do treat us with respect make sure to thank your reps. For those of us in the peoples republic of Illinoiis, write early, and often. Recruit your fellow club members, make sure you relay this at cruise nights, etc. There's power in numbers and the number of US should scare the heck out of the elected officials, (notice I did not say OUR elected officials) I also encourage ALL local clubs to get involved. It works for other special interest group, it's time for us to wake up and take a stand.

[Chris Haynes]

I often have to apply for a title for a vehicle that doesn't have one. In CA it is no big deal if you know what you are doing. Never, never, never tell them the vehicle was built from parts. The first thing you do is run the numbers to make sure it is out of the system. Then simply fill out an application for title. Bring it in for number verification. Pay them money and in a couple weeks your title comes in the mail. If for some reason your number does come up as having been registered during the last 7 years you try to contact the owner, which is usually impossible. Then you do a lien sale and get a title.
I have always found that it is well worth the time to remove the body bolts, fender and splash apron so the body can be tipped and the frame number can be seen.

[ride00007]

How come nobody wants to mention the name(s) of these different ladies involved?

So on a scratch built car, nothing original, do you really have to have a bonded title if the components are all new and have never been on an original?

[grey46]

Frank
Lincoln is almost dead center in the state about 30 miles north of Springfield . I went to a cruise in last nite about 50 cars showed up,by the end of the evening I ran into 3 people the state had targeted, one who had just gotten his title after 6 months of bonding procedure and a cost of $2000.00 The other 2 already had 2months into it and each had spent close to $1000.00 with no end in sight . Plus they pull your tags and registration during the bonding process which means during that time the car has to just sit ,for however many months it takes . The new owner will be picking mine up tomorrow ,State 1 me 0 .....

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

My carrier required a certified auto mechanic to perform a comprehensive safety inspection or no coverage.

If it's a daily driver maybe it should be inspected? If it's a car that will hardly see 1500 miles in a year maybe not.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by grey46

The new owner will be picking mine up tomorrow ,State 1 me 0 .....

I'm sorry to hear that! I hope you can find another already titled in your state.

As it has been said before, it is just a way to get money from the citizens.

Think about this for a moment, how much more of a financial mess would we be in if for example the sale of all tobacco products and booze were stopped tomorrow. How would they make up the taxes?


My father told me that "You can shear a sheep every year, you can only skin him once."

[grey46]

Ride 00007
I guess no one mentions her name because she is all powerfull and just dont want to take a chance on her knowing ya dont care for her attitude.

[ride00007]

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That's just crazy. I obtained a packet from the state a few months ago. I'd have to dig thru my notes and see who it was that I spoke with in Springfield but that gal was very nice and told me to call her back if I had any questions at all. The packet really didn't come with instructions and was overall pretty confusing. I'm not ready for it yet anyway but she seemed helpful.

[37fatfender]

I personally watched a "State Official" (woman) inspect a car that is being built. The car in question is a 1 800 Street Rod. Not one dam thing original. The owner of the build decided to be up front and have the state involved from the get go. The car set there in nothing but gelcoat, fully assembled ready to be taken apart for paint. Oh, there was one thing original the tilte being used for the car........So the owner stamped numbers on the new repo chassis and tagged the new fiberglass with a plate. The state person looked at the old title matched the numbers.........no problem.???????? What isn't this what this is all about .....All she wanted to see was a receipt for the new LS1. I was amazed at that's all there was. I am not sure if she ever realized that the chassis and body were even reproduction. She didn't seem to know what she was looking at from the questions she was asking. She even thougth the car was in pretty good shape for its age...... I was in fact there and witnessed this........We all just scatched our heads in wonder. We are waiting for the next shoe to drop.........

[Chris Haynes]

I had a friend who had to take his full custom '50 Merc in to the CHP for number verification. Radical car. Chopped Carson top. Chevy crate motor. Etc. Etc, Etc. The female CHP officer was giving him grief saying that was not a 1950 Merc. Of course she was in her 20's and had probably never seen a 1950 Merc. The CHP station commander happened to walk by, admired the car and said "That a beautiful '50 Merc". She shut up and verified his number.

[5window]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Does anyone know or have any stories to tell about how hard it is to register a Mod A in Pa.? It is not much of a problem in NJ, but they rarely want verification of serial numbers. However, my experience in Pa is that they verify the numbers. And my very limited experience with Mod A fords shows me that more often than not, the S.Ns are corroded away as mentioned by another poster. If this is the case, What do I do?
Terry NJ (pa)

I don't think it's too bad to register an actual antique A in PA-here's the appropriate application and the requirements don't look too bad.
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/mv_forms/mv-11.pdf

I have a '31 A that I bought with a PA title that had been a transfer from an Ohio tilte. I bought it at Carlisle and it could only be registered there as a regular car because that's all the title service could do. Once I got it home, I had to re-register it as a streetod because the windshield had been chopped below 9" in height.

I took the title I had, receipts, photos,etc to my State Representative (you MUST do this!) who ran it through PennDot for me. In the end, PA vacated my original title and issued me a new title and a new VIN plate as well as streetrod tags. So now, my title matches my VIN tag and there are no original Henry #'s on the car that are visible. I know this is an antique site-just my experience with PennDot.

[Terry, NJ]

Thanks for this!
Regards, Terry

[grey46]

Heres an interesting update .Just had a friend call and tell me he bought a Harley a couple months ago with a clear current Louisianna title . Illinois told him that is a flood ,hurricain state and he will need to provide proof that the bike was never involved in a flood ,if he cant provide proof to them he will have to reapply (pay all fees again) and will be issued a FLOOD Vehical title ,which as you know is just as bad as a slavage title . Which will greatly reduce the value of the bike . So I guess we can add that to the list of things Illinois is now doing ..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by grey46

Heres an interesting update .Just had a friend call and tell me he bought a Harley a couple months ago with a clear current Louisianna title . Illinois told him that is a flood ,hurricain state and he will need to provide proof that the bike was never involved in a flood ,if he cant provide proof to them he will have to reapply (pay all fees again) and will be issued a FLOOD Vehical title ,which as you know is just as bad as a slavage title . Which will greatly reduce the value of the bike . So I guess we can add that to the list of things Illinois is now doing ..

Not good! so, in Illinois you are guilty until you can prove otherwise. Sounds like someone needs to throw the bums out of office.

[Rowdy]

Nebraska is not that greedy yet. Right now they are persuing lost sales tax when a car is bought and then quickly resold and the guy in the middle did not pay the sales tax for the purchase, which reminds me I need to head top the courthouse soon to pay the sales tax on the delivery now that I have a title. I do not want to be the one they make an example out of with a $1000 fine plus the actual tax and interest. Rod

[Ford46]

It looks like the original intent may have been good, BUT somewhere along the line it became a nightmare. Which is typical when the government gets involved. We have just been reading an interesting Civics lesson. The problem is MOST people don't care! They buy new cars, from a dealer (who we all know are honest and would never lie) so they never have a problem. The sad part is that this is going to spread, if one state won't accept another state's title them that state won't accept theirs!
Seriously, this is going to snowball, until all them "Clunkers" we own are off the road! Of course a new Toyota that has acceleration problems is okay.

It's a sad state of affairs we find ourselves. LouB.

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Smart DMV, the engine was produced in November 1930.

As a matter of fact, Engine #4140858 was made on Nov 17, 1930

I know this is an old thread, but how did you find that information? Is it public somewhere where we can look up info about our cars?

Thanks,
Neal

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

I know this is an old thread, but how did you find that information? Is it public somewhere where we can look up info about our cars?

Thanks,
Neal

Using Steve Pluckers information, Click HERE, Bob Johnson created a little program HERE.

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Using Steve Pluckers information, Click HERE, Bob Johnson created a little program HERE.

Thanks for the info. I have them both bookmarked now