title problem

[Terry, NJ]

If this were me (and it may soon be) I would be a raving maniac. This sounds like something NJ would dream up to raise money. Their favorite stunt used to be the "outstanding parking ticket" Scam. They would "find" an old parking ticket in a name similiar to yours and then rovoke your license for failure to show up in court. Then charge you $100 to reinstate your license, after you paid the ticket fines. Coincidentally, the only "Crimes" that don't expire in NJ are murder and parking tickets. A lot of heat was brought to bear on the legistlature and this corrupt practice was ended. States that are cash strapped are using any and all means to raise money now. I think you're right. it is just to raise money. Why else just go after titles that are 25 years ands older? Has there been a problem? Did they have a rash of antique cars beeing stolen and re-titled illegally? And most importantly, Do they consider antique car owners to be too small a voting block to worry about?
Regards, Terry

Originally Posted by grey46

I dealt with this on another car a year ago .It had a CLEAR current Neb title ,matching vin visible on frame rail .Reason given for title check was seller had signed off 45 days before I applied for title ,even with a clear correct vin they wanted a bonded title ,only reason I was ever told was the time between sign off and my attempt to title was too long. Now its because the vin is for a 30 and car is a 29 ,I explained in a very calm and semi-knowledgeable manner that it was common practice to change tile when swapping motors ,and asked if there was any way to contact Tenn DMV to see if they could / would provide verification the car was legal ,have gotten no response to that,Tenn also attached a vin tag to door jam that reflects current vin on title ,not good enough for Illinois (or at least the lady in charge) Calling Springfield offices gets nuthing except "they are pulling all titles on cars over 25 years old and thats all we know. The last email I have gotten from the "lady" reads as follows
Quote
"Sellers info matches the title.The vin tag is a fake one.Unless the original frame is under the vehical,we can not use that vin for the vehical.Also the vin is not for a 1929 Ford ,it is for a 1930 Ford.Let me know if the original chassis is under the car (and not modified) If not you will have to apply for a bonded title and new vin assignment " unquote.
Havent heard back since ,but did find info indicating on other sites that Illinois is now also pulling all out of state titles as well as the 25 year deal. I would like my cars to be all legal like anyone would but it just seems to be getting very costly,time and labor intensive,and I did have one state employee say off the record that DMV has discovered a gold mine. So for the moment I remaining very calm almost zen like untill I hear more... Doug

[dan]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

And most importantly, Do they consider antique car owners to be too small a voting block to worry about?
Regards, Terry

Terry, I think you have clearly hit the nail on the head. With governments everywhere strapped for cash, and people fed up with the constant cycle of tax increases, expect to see taxes and fees that can be accessed against small groups to go up and up and up. When legislatures know that the general populace isn't going to put up with it any more, they're looking for creative ways of "increasing revenue" that won't have citizens in the capitols looking for tall trees and rope.

To paraphrase Niemöller:

First they raised taxes on businesses, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a business owner.

Then they imposed fees on recycling, and I didn't speak up, because I don't recycle. ;-)

Then they raised taxes on antique cars and there was no one left to speak up.

[grey46]

I have talked to a couple friends that have dealers licenses and they are very aware of the "Lady" I was told that if a title app is put in thru a dealer somehow it completely circumvents her and will go thru just as you would expect. Do you or anyone have any info to back that up. Perhaps another option

[Terry, NJ]

Frank, I for one, appreciate your patience in writing out these long, detailed answers. I think the original poster was gob smacked (as i was) at the thought of all this ardous labor in getting our cars legally titled. I am not patient! More delay in the process makes me question the value
of bothering to complete it. Why not just unload it and get another car with a better title and let someone , whose got more patience, else play with it.
I had never heard of "bonding" a title before. I don';t know if this applicable in all states or only a few. Thanks again for your input!
Regards, Terry

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

it seems as though this thread is getting buried, i hope not, it has been very educational, if we cant drive these cars we need none of the rest of this, Im not building them to bounce my lawnmower off them or put my lawn chairs on.

[Stick Shift]

Ok so I go through this process and a couple of years later I get a title. I drive the car a year or two then decide to sell it. Now I want to know will another state except this IL title and vin#? I thought I read somewhere above that some one bought an out of state car with a new tag and it was not excepted.

I live about a half mile from the WI border and I think maybe a move across the border may be easier. LOL

[Mike V. Florida]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Stick Shift

Ok so I go through this process and a couple of years later I get a title. I drive the car a year or two then decide to sell it. Now I want to know will another state except this IL title and vin#? I thought I read somewhere above that some one bought an out of state car with a new tag and it was not excepted.

I live about a half mile from the WI border and I think maybe a move across the border may be easier. LOL

Remember that this thread started because a owner of a car had a valid, legal, up to date title that the state of Il. decided they would not honor.

So could another state reject your title, hell yea!!!

[grey46]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

I dont have any info on that, I think there are two separate departments and two separate ladys, I dont think you got your title held up at the same dept. mine was sent to. I would bet that the dealers get a different dept. but if we punch the paper work thru on a dealer whats to say they don't just pull us review us and reject us. I sent one thru on the currency exchange and had it back in three weeks right around Jan. I sold that car a week later. You may get your title back and plate her but you may get your title pulled. So here is the million dollar question.... when you guys or your friends had their titles pulled what happened to your ability to plate and drive your cars during this process?

When I declined the bonded title process on the 26 Ford,within 3 bussiness days I got a letter telling me to immediatly return my current plates,and registration to the S.S. of I would face felony charges.

[37fatfender]

In the case of my friend who has had this happen to 2 of his cars, One car has been re vinned, titled and plated, took over a year. This was for a car with a clear IL title that he had own over a year. The other car still no resolve. During this limbo (waiting) they are no longer cars. They become a commodity, they cannot be driven, sold or transported out of the state of IL.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

Thats the part that really bites, I can understand why they are doing this title pulling, there are a lot of questionable autos out there, for a new title, I painfully suppose they can justify their tax, for a car a guy owns or has owned for a long time, for them to come along and say park it for a year buddy and pay us this and buy a bond, what the FFFF. This is the great joy of living in a state that sends all of its governors to prison, or so they claim, I see the last one jogging down the street all the time with not a care in the world. What can we do, we are being taxed to oblivion just like a pack of cigarettes.

The corruption of our governments at every level is almost total! It's time to "water the tree", I think!
Regards, Terry

[Earle]

Good luck, grey46. I hope the process quickly works itself out for you. Once you get snagged in the quicksand at DMV, you're now on their radar screen and at their mercy. You have no choice but to follow through. Be civil and respectful. They are not the folks you want to aggravate if you ever want to get that precious title!

Delaware is one of the tough nit-picking states with titles and registrations. I inherited my dad's '31 roadster 9 years ago and moved it from NJ to Delaware. When I tried to get a DE title and Reg., I was "thrilled" to discover that, during his earlier restoration, Dad had swapped engines and never informed NJ DMV! Thanks, Dad! The DE DMV clerk came out to "inspect" the car and saw that the VIN on the NJ title did NOT match the SN on the engine and the games began. At my extreme inconvenience, I had to lift the body for them only to discover that the frame-stamped SN had long ago worn and corroded away. But because the body was lifted while in a shop in PA having work done (Schwalms), The PA State Police got involved and their stolen vehicle department sent a trooper to the shop to verify that there was no SN on the frame. They then took months to run down the NJ and engine SN's and then coordinate with the DE stolen vehicle department. Lo and behold, my car was not stolen (thank God!)! But DE would NOT allow the current engine SN to be used as the car's new DE title VIN. They required that a special metal plaque be attached to the firewall (pretty!) with a new "synthetic VIN".

Oh well, 6 months of this boloney, plus getting to pay a huge amount DE "vehicle transfer tax" on the car's restored value, now allows me the "privilige" of driving and enjoyong this beautiful and fun car.

I do think that the powers to be do not like old cars being on the highways (especially the "safety", "environmentallist" and power-hungry buracartic types) and they will make owning and operating our cars increasingly difficult until they kill the hobby altogether. (Same game plan with law-abiding gun owners these days).

Hang in there. You'll get through it all - just not very quickly...

Earle

[grey46]

Earl
Im just waiting to here from them again,have heard nuthing for a couple weeks. Im sure soon I will get a letter saying I HAVE to get a bonded title and try to get a new vin issued . That will be followed by pulling the current registration and plates ,which means the car will just sit for however long it might take . Ive decided Im not going to have a car just sit in the garage for possibly months,and fight the state.If / when they make it impossible to enjoy the car ,I will most likly just sell it and take up a less political hobby.

[Earle]

Grey46 (Doug?), We all sure hope you stick it out and follow through with the long, irritating process. You'll be proud of yourself as a real "veteran" and survivor of the antique car political wars. And once you've been "initiated" into the hobby and gone through the DMV "Hazing process", you'll love owning and operating your Model A and the history it represents.

BUT! - If you sadly do decide to sell the car - Can you really sell it now that you are on the DMV's radar screen as having an "improperly-documented vehicle" that can not be legally sold or transfered? - Sure hope not!

Keep us informed.

Earle

[Paul from Maine]

See attached the complicated paperwork someone must fill out in Maine to register a Model A.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

In my state (Mass.) you need a previous registration or a title in order to apply for a new title and the sales tax is computed frrom the current N.A.D.A. value which is sometimes a lot higher than what you actually paid, that's even if the car is a basket case. If you buy from a Mass. licensed dealer they will honor the sales price. After they approve you for a title and you pay the sales tax the car can be registered. I guess we're lucky we're not in some other states.

[Kevin in NJ]

First off Il sounds like a true nightmare. I hope it does not catch on to other states.

All your troubles were the realization that people were doing the Alabama title thing.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...itle_a_hot_rod

I have always found good info on this rod site

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/

Some rules of old car buying and titling.

Never lie. That being said make sure your story has no holes- Do your homework!!!!

ALWAYS know the legal places for the VIN and always check that they match or match by the time someone has to check them.

[Paul from Maine]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

The corruption of our governments at every level is almost total! It's time to "water the tree", I think!
Regards, Terry

Are you, perchance, quoting our esteemed third president?

[scott 351 wins]

on the hamb this came up too

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=468816

[Terry, NJ]

Does anyone know or have any stories to tell about how hard it is to register a Mod A in Pa.? It is not much of a problem in NJ, but they rarely want verification of serial numbers. However, my experience in Pa is that they verify the numbers. And my very limited experience with Mod A fords shows me that more often than not, the S.Ns are corroded away as mentioned by another poster. If this is the case, What do I do?
Terry NJ (pa)

[tamagrouchy]

I've been watching this thread and I want to remind ALL brother (and sister) hobbiests, that WE are a pretty large special interest group. i.e. WRITE your representatives and let them know you will NOT tolerate this new form of harassment. For those who's states do treat us with respect make sure to thank your reps. For those of us in the peoples republic of Illinoiis, write early, and often. Recruit your fellow club members, make sure you relay this at cruise nights, etc. There's power in numbers and the number of US should scare the heck out of the elected officials, (notice I did not say OUR elected officials) I also encourage ALL local clubs to get involved. It works for other special interest group, it's time for us to wake up and take a stand.

[Chris Haynes]

I often have to apply for a title for a vehicle that doesn't have one. In CA it is no big deal if you know what you are doing. Never, never, never tell them the vehicle was built from parts. The first thing you do is run the numbers to make sure it is out of the system. Then simply fill out an application for title. Bring it in for number verification. Pay them money and in a couple weeks your title comes in the mail. If for some reason your number does come up as having been registered during the last 7 years you try to contact the owner, which is usually impossible. Then you do a lien sale and get a title.
I have always found that it is well worth the time to remove the body bolts, fender and splash apron so the body can be tipped and the frame number can be seen.