My new engine starting nightmare in Seattle. Touring motor.

[Hitchhiker]

I have a late 31 model A pickup with a fairly hot "touring" engine. I've hesitated to post here as my vehicle is more of a hot rod, even though it is all 99% model A Ford and not modified at all besides bolt ons. I'm very inexperienced with these engines and I'm getting pretty frustrated, so hoping someone has some insight.

I'll start with the engine specs.

It's a .60 over model A engine with counterbalanced crank and lightened flywheel. It is running a Super Winfield head at 7:1 compression. It has a Winfield SU1A cam, and a old Mallory distributor with 25 degrees advance at 2500 rpm. It also has a Winfield B downdraft and manifold i have tried and I would like to run, but is currently set up with a stock zenith updraft.

It was a stock style rebuild with the crank, flywheel and such of unknown origins. It came with my truck. I added the winfield stuff.

I have been trying to get this thing to start for two months and have been battling a long list of problems. The longest I have been able to get it to run is about 4 seconds, but shut it down as the winfield carb was leaking everywhere. This was the first time I started it. It hasn't run again.


Heres the list of problems I've had and what I have done.

At first it was really cranking slow. I ended up replacing the battery and cleaning connections and that helped a lot.

the real problem was the winfield carb was all sorts of messed up. It flooded the engine. Leaked everywhere I've rebuilt it and I think fixed the problem stuff but put a stock carb on to try and fire. still nothing. I haven't tried the winfield again. This was my hugest time waste.

I have set the timing multiple times with the pin method, and checked it all with the head off. everything appears in time.

It is pretty hard to turn over by hand but I think that should be expected and in my opinion cranks pretty slow, but I have tried it on 12 volts and it still wouldn't start.

I had the head off also recently because the ring in #1 was making noise. I added a thimble of oil and it quieted down. I think it was because it flooded so badly It literally had fuel sitting in the bottom of the manifold maybe about a shot glass worth? I'm worried that has ruined things.

When i put the head back on I didn't use any sealer on the gasket and a old head gasket(unused,but older than I am) and it won't blow your thumb off the spark plug hole now and it is bubbling out the side between the head and block. I also only set it to 55ftlbs, should it be higher? 65ftlbs? I'm going to put a new gasket in, but I am starting to get real frustrated with this, of now it's just an expensive paper weight.


Suggestions?

thanks for any help.

Matt

[700rpm]

I'm a strictly stock guy and not experienced with Mallory distributors except to say that I had one on my coupe when I first bought it. After similar frustrations trying to get the timing right, I gave up on the Mallory and went back to a stock distributor. My takeaway on that was that you really have to know how to set the Mallory up and time it for a Model A. I suggest therein lies your trouble.

Oh, and I would add, I don't think you're very far away from a solution. Even with your mods these engines are pretty simple. Spark, gas, compression, and timing, and it should fire.

[Mike V. Florida]

get the head on right before you go any further. Use a sealer of your choice, most use copper coat. 65 is better for torque.

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

get the head on right before you go any further. Use a sealer of your choice, most use copper coat. 65 is better for torque.

will do.

[Mike V. Florida]

Where did you get the Mallory? Is it new? " Bubbas Hot Rod Shop" in Indianapolis can build it with either points or electronic . Just give Jim a call .
317-247-6322

[Hitchhiker]

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Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Where did you get the Mallory? Is it new?

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940. Single point. cap and rotor are still available. I had it restored by Jim Linder.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940. Single point. cap and rotor are still available. I had it restored by Jim Linder.

Why not try a dist to get it started. Then go back to the mag. Mags have to be set different because of the impulse. Sounds to me like slow timing or vacuum leak.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by George Miller

Why not try a dist to get it started. Then go back to the mag. Mags have to be set different because of the impulse. Sounds to me like slow timing or vacuum leak.

Hey George,
I could be reading things...without my .99 cent CVS glasses, but I think that he IS using a dist, not mag. And, Jim Linder (Bubba) rebuilt it he says ? That dist is one of the better/best, IMO for A/B use

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
I could be reading things...without my .99 cent CVS glasses, but I think that he IS using a dist, not mag. And, Jim Linder (Bubba) rebuilt it he says ? That dist is one of the better/best, IMO for A/B use

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940.

My mistake, combines had mags not dist. So I jumped conclusions. I used to work on them in my Dads garage. Mags can be crankie some times.

[colin1928]

pm sent

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Ray and Mike. I always use Copper coat on both sides of the head gasket. Have you checked the head for flatness?

Are you using an electric fuel pump with the downdraft carb that flooded? Maybe it had too much pressure. I found that my 12 volt Holley electric pump has way too much pressure and volume. Even when running it on 6 volts it still has 15 pounds pressure. I added a 4 ohm 50 watt resistor to the 12 volt Holley pump and it's just right when running on 6 volts.

[Dave in MN]

IMO: Use a good sealer (K&W Copper Coat or like) and re-torque to 55#. Run the engine easy to operating temp and re-torque back to 55#. If you need to go to 65#, there is something else causing the leaking problem. (Warped head? Damage at the top of the block?) I never go to 65# anymore...I did a few times when new to the whole Model A experience and pulled two studs out of my block. Low compression: With the raw gas pulled into the cylinders, they are likely very dry. Put some oil in each cylinder when you have the head off and turn it over a few times. The oil will help minimize cylinder damage when started. Compression tests should be done with a warm engine.
Good Day!

www.durableperformance.net

[Mitch//pa]

yes what the others said about coating the gasket,
do a leak down test and make sure you have a strong steady spark

[d.j. moordigian]

....while your at it,...re-run the valves!

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

....while your at it,...re-run the valves!

Yes,...check the adjustment...
Even with a "not so good" head gasket,...it should blow your
thumb off the hole..

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Yes,...check the adjustment...
Even with a "not so good" head gasket,...it should blow your
thumb off the hole..

I agree. Make sure you check for sticking valves while you have the head off. Roll it around several times with the hand crank while you watch them. There is several ways to do it, I always check both valves on the same cylinder while its halfway up on the compression stroke.
Good Luck

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
I could be reading things...without my .99 cent CVS glasses, but I think that he IS using a dist, not mag. And, Jim Linder (Bubba) rebuilt it he says ? That dist is one of the better/best, IMO for A/B use

That is correct. Distributor not mag.

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

I agree. Make sure you check for sticking valves while you have the head off. Roll it around several times with the hand crank while you watch them. There is several ways to do it, I always check both valves on the same cylinder while its halfway up on the compression stroke.
Good Luck

Hmm, I wonder if I have adjusted the valves wrong. Very possible as I have never done it before and it was a little confusing to me.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

Hmm, I wonder if I have adjusted the valves wrong. Very possible as I have never done it before and it was a little confusing to me.

Aha! A new clue. Follow Les Andrews very carefully. It is confusing, but if you go step by step you'll be fine. As long as we're xhecking things, do your timing gears match correctly?

[Rex_A_Lott]

Hmm, I wonder if I have adjusted the valves wrong. Very possible as I have never done it before and it was a little confusing to me.[/QUOTE]

If it ran at all, not likely you did it completely wrong. They could be off a little, and you might get a little wear, or they could have worked loose.....good reason D.J. suggested checking them.
If they are stuck/sticking, it would help explain the lack of compression.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

I always check both valves on the same cylinder while its halfway up on the compression stroke.
Good Luck

Uhhh.........."halfway up on the compression stroke"....

Don't do it that way!!......please..
Do it @ TDC.......make sure it's not on the "overlap".....please, this
would be the less complicated and easiest for the novice...