The Ford Barn

Fourdy · 03-13-2018, 02:40 PM

Story of woe. -

This 276 blown block has approx. 3k miles since installed. I have had a heating problem since the very first. I of course made the radiator companies stock go up by buying more even “better” units. 3rd and last one is a Brassworks.

Driving in my NW weather upper 70’s lower 80’s I could drive 50-60 miles or so with temp slowly moving up to 190+. Getting to the destination and shutting down it would of course cool down. If i got stuck in traffic the temp would go up and then suddenly jump to over 200 degrees. Shut down, cool off and go again. I took the heads off and spent hours cleaning the inside of the block. It had a lot of scale type material that I uses a magnet to get out.

Put it all back together and had the same cyclic temp problem. Up to this time, I have checked numerous times for exhaust gases in the radiator with zero results.

Time to get serious so I removed the engine, tore it completely down and had it double hot tanked. Got it all back together and ran it in my garage for 45 minutes to check it out. Temp to about 190 and shut it off. When I checked the water level 20 minutes later (yes with a rag over the cap) there was no pressure relief at all. Just like taking the cap off a cold radiator.

The next morning my Son was to take a ride with me to check things out. Walked around the car after it had run for a couple minutes only to find water (not moisture) coming out of the driver side exhaust. Immediately checked the radiator for exhaust gases again with instant results to the positive. Blue turned bright yellow and a full stream of bubbles.

Out comes the engine, torn down and purchase the Speedway pressure tester. 60# pressure with no indicated leak using soapy water. #8 cylinder appeared to have been steam cleaned.

I have talked to a few machinists and engineers that have suggested that I have a block crack that remains tight until a certain point in heat is reached making it open more. It finally got bad enough to remain open and grab my full attention. No crack can be seen with a mag, glass anywhere in the cyl or valve pockets. May be in exhaust runner in back.

Does any of this sound logical to you guys? Anyone need a block to fill with cement and go racing? lol It is very hard for me to give it up to the junk yard.

I have a new block all ready to replace this one and hoping for the best.

I would appreciate any comment you may have.

Fourdy

40 Deluxe · 03-13-2018, 02:52 PM

Here is a perfect home for Tod's new block!

flatheadmurre · 03-13-2018, 02:55 PM

They have a bad habbit of leaking thrue the headbolt going into the middle exhaust runner.
Material crack in the middle separating upper and lower part of the threaded hole.
A loooong timesert insert in that hole solves that type of leak or even a longer thread on the stud.

B-O-B · 03-13-2018, 03:32 PM

You are looking at it with a magnifying glass but did you or anyone Mag the block with a electro magnet & iron shavings ?

Fordestes · 03-13-2018, 03:53 PM

Try to borrow a black light and a little fluorescent dye and put it under pressure. a minute trace will shine like a diamond in a goats a--, you may be scrapping a repairable block, If you were closer I would dye test and pressure it up ,I can understand your frustrations especially when it cant be detected with pressure alone.

Mike51Merc · 03-13-2018, 03:56 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Don't forget----- it could be the HEAD.

Fordestes · 03-13-2018, 04:00 PM

Another hint would be to use fluorescent mag iron powder, it can line up and then be seen with a black light somewhat easier than reg. white powder mag dust.

Fourdy · 03-13-2018, 09:13 PM

Not the heads. Occured with 8cm heads then new Edelbrocks. Guess I could send it in and pay for a magnaflux. Can that find cracks hidden within the block?

Fourdy

richard crow · 03-13-2018, 10:16 PM

put it two geter get a can of zotight do as the inst. say problem solved

Kahuna · 03-13-2018, 10:22 PM

Fourdy
I had a similar problem with a block that I had put a lot of money & effort into.
Ultimately it was a crack in the passenger side exhaust port for cylinder #4.
There was no fix for it that I could find anywhere. I ended up starting out with a new
block that I got from Vern Tardell. Very sad

Fourdy · 03-13-2018, 10:52 PM

Kahuna - that is exactly what we are beginning to believe my problem is only mine is in #8. Yes - extremely dissapointing. I do have another machined block sitting in my garage and hope to be back on the road again. It is just hard to make the final decision to "toss" it.

Fourdy

flatheadmurre · 03-14-2018, 12:28 AM

Pressure test and a borescope should be able to find the leak ??
Magnaflux is limited to what the eye can see.
Heated pressure test tanks are used on aluminum heads just because of this reason that cracks open up when getting hot.

rotorwrench · 03-14-2018, 09:16 AM

A pressure test won't help you "find" a leak in an exhaust port but if it won't hold its mud then it can confirm an exhaust port leak. The usually crack through in the siamese center ports but they can crack anywhere and some just can't be seen.

tubman · 03-14-2018, 09:48 AM

Just curious. What type block is this? Is it an 8BA, a 59A, or one of the earlier ones (99a, etc.). I've scanned the thread twice, and I don't believe it's specified.

flatheadmurre · 03-14-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

A pressure test won't help you "find" a leak in an exhaust port but if it won't hold its mud then it can confirm an exhaust port leak. The usually crack through in the siamese center ports but they can crack anywhere and some just can't be seen.

Why wouldn´t you find a leak in the exhaust port ?
My latest odd leak was in a casting fault in the oilfill of a 59ab...finding the bubbles in the water and locating the leak wasn´t the hard part...getting it fixed was the real pain in the rear.

Ol' Ron · 03-14-2018, 11:08 AM

I've used Morso stop leak with some success. How long it will last is????

Russ/40 · 03-14-2018, 11:29 AM

Fourdy, i had the same experience as you have. I was convinced there was a crack in the roof of the intake runner that nothing would help visualize. I too purchased the pressure test kit from Speedway, and it eventually pinpointed the crack. Mine was in the bore, but the crack didnt start until 2 inches down the bore and proceeded only 1 1/2 inches. Its hard to imagine it was missed during the build, or if it occured after the build. I too tried to will the problem away, not wanting to give up on the block. A second look with a pressure test might turn something up. With mine, i could have easily missed it again, as the crack showed so little leakage, and only showed leaking in a 1/8" portion of the crack.

Added after Ron's post.
No prior attempt with block sealer resolved my problem.

revkev6 · 03-14-2018, 11:54 AM

i ran a motor for 25 years that had the oil pan rails welded up! the last couple years I was smelling coolant in the exhaust and the transmission needed a rebuild so I pulled it to replace the gaskets (thinking head gaskets) and rebuild the transmission. well... just to be safe I made my own pressure tester and it didn't take much pressure with some dish soap sprayed into the exhaust ports to find two ports with cracks.

enter complete new block!!!

don't despair though as I plan to load the old one up with leak stop and do my damnedest to see how much a flatty can take before it blows!

this is what my cracks looked like.

richard crow · 03-14-2018, 12:40 PM

i will say it again i have had flat heads when running the water was coming out the exhaust pipe put zotight block saver in & never had problems even years later this stuff works what do you have to loose just the price of the zotight

revkev6 · 03-14-2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard crow

i will say it again i have had flat heads when running the water was coming out the exhaust pipe put zotight block saver in & never had problems even years later this stuff works what do you have to loose just the price of the zotight

in my case?? piece of mind. My roadster isn't easy to get apart and for 25 years I've not trusted it to drive more than a few towns away for a few reasons. now, i've buttoned up some issues and hope to be able to take some trips with it.

sounds like he has the block out of the car at the moment. I wouldn't chance it myself. the cracked block i have will go in another car I'm building... at some point.

rotorwrench · 03-14-2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

Why wouldn´t you find a leak in the exhaust port ?
My latest odd leak was in a casting fault in the oilfill of a 59ab...finding the bubbles in the water and locating the leak wasn´t the hard part...getting it fixed was the real pain in the rear.

It's not to easy to see up inside the ports. You can find which port but you may not be able to find (see) the crack. If it's way back in there, it won't be repairable. Might get some stop leak to fill it in but exhaust ports may not stay plugged due to the heat.

Fourdy · 03-14-2018, 01:16 PM

Tubman - It is the 8ba block.
Russ/40 - you feel my pain. We pressure tested the block twice using Dawn detergent and water sprayer. I wasn't sure if it could really detect a leak until seeing how much foaming occured from a minute leak from the bolt rubber gasket. Not being able to completely immerse the block, it was on an engine stand so it could be rotated. All surfaces, holes chambers were soaked and produced NO foaming. I could keep spending my Flatty $$'s trying to find and fix the problem or donate it to what we refer to as a "boat anchor" here in the great Northwest. Oh, I do have and used a borescope with no results. It sure is interesting to see what is inside these blocks.

I appreciate all of your comments and advice.

Fourdy

Fourdy · 03-14-2018, 01:30 PM

richard crow

I have bookmarked the zotight page for future need. I would be willing to try it before tearing the engine down. Now not worth the expense of putting it all back together for a possible fix. Thank you for the info.

Fourdy

revkev6 · 03-14-2018, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourdy

richard crow

I have bookmarked the zotight page for future need. I would be willing to try it before tearing the engine down. Now not worth the expense of putting it all back together for a possible fix. Thank you for the info.

Fourdy

exactly the way I felt on mine....

B-O-B · 03-14-2018, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Just curious. What type block is this? Is it an 8BA, a 59A, or one of the earlier ones (99a, etc.). I've scanned the thread twice, and I don't believe it's specified.

From the picture it looks like an 8 BA.

flatjack9 · 03-14-2018, 07:45 PM

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When I pressure test, I fill the block with water and then pressurize it to 60 psi.

Mike51Merc · 03-17-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatjack9

When I pressure test, I fill the block with water and then pressurize it to 60 psi.

Isn't 60 psi a bit much? A cooling system is pressure regulated by the radiator cap with most caps for flatties between 4 - 12 psi, depending on year.

I'd be scared to death of 60psi water in any container.

flatjack9 · 03-17-2018, 09:23 AM

What's to be scared of? I am a plumbing contractor and the city water pressure in our house plumbing is 60 psi or even higher in some areas. I figure the block passes a test at 60 psi, it will surely be OK in the chassis.

Kurt in NJ · 03-17-2018, 09:37 AM

Water under pressure just sprays out, it's air --or other gases under pressure(including staem) that you worry about--just look at air compressor explosions, water is used for testing pressure vessels, it there is a failure it splits and leaks ---

Bored&Stroked · 03-17-2018, 12:58 PM

Given that the cylinder is washed down - like it was steam cleaned, that makes me think that the water must be coming into the cylinder - which is probably not an exhaust port leak.

My first guess would be a head gasket - did you carefully inspect the gaskets? What type are you using? Also, I'd do another pressure test on the block - but I'd poor hot boiling water into it - before you put on the water pump block-off plates. Get the block hot - see if that changes the story in #8.

Good luck! I know the sickening feeling of a cracked block - especially one that has had a lot of work done to it . . . keeps a feller up at night!

B&S

Fourdy · 03-17-2018, 06:40 PM

B&S
"BEST" gaskets sealed with copper gasket paint. The gasket had to be torn apart to get the head off then then putty knifed to clean the surface o stuck on material. I have used three sets of "big bore" gaskets on this block with two separate kinds of heads (merc and Edelbrock) with heating problems leading up to the final occurrence as as described before. I just can't make myself junk the block yet so I will set it aside for now and get my new engine put together. Anxious to get back o the road again.

Fourdy

Mike51Merc · 03-18-2018, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatjack9

What's to be scared of? I am a plumbing contractor and the city water pressure in our house plumbing is 60 psi or even higher in some areas. I figure the block passes a test at 60 psi, it will surely be OK in the chassis.

I'd guess that at 60psi all the gaskets would be blown out, causing more trouble than it's worth.

JSeery · 03-18-2018, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

I'd guess that at 60psi all the gaskets would be blown out, causing more trouble than it's worth.

What gaskets? I'm not aware on any gaskets involved when I pressure test, unless your referring to the neoprene between the block off plates and the block. If they can't hold 60 psi it is not a very good setup, that's for sure!

bill3337 · 03-18-2018, 01:05 PM

I wouldn't junk the block until I knew for sure what the problem was. I think it's worthwhile to take it to a professional shop who can do the magnafluxing. I'd want to know what the issue is.

flatjack9 · 03-18-2018, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

I'd guess that at 60psi all the gaskets would be blown out, causing more trouble than it's worth.

I use a gasket cut out of some heavy duty rubber belting material about 3/16 thick and have never blown it out. I guess I better rethink my method.

Dave/Green Bay · 05-10-2018, 09:41 PM

Jack just tested 2 blocks for me a 35LB and a 8ba using his 60 pound testing method. The 8ba ended up having several cracks inside the exhaust posts. I wasted time and money pining the block before the test. Wish I had taken it to him before the money waste. His testing method does work. I was about to build the engine which would have been a complete wasted of money building what I thought was a good block. Thanks Jack for your help. Dave/Green Bay

03-13-2018, 02:40 PM	#1
Fourdy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 601	Cracked block woes Story of woe. - This 276 blown block has approx. 3k miles since installed. I have had a heating problem since the very first. I of course made the radiator companies stock go up by buying more even “better” units. 3rd and last one is a Brassworks. Driving in my NW weather upper 70’s lower 80’s I could drive 50-60 miles or so with temp slowly moving up to 190+. Getting to the destination and shutting down it would of course cool down. If i got stuck in traffic the temp would go up and then suddenly jump to over 200 degrees. Shut down, cool off and go again. I took the heads off and spent hours cleaning the inside of the block. It had a lot of scale type material that I uses a magnet to get out. Put it all back together and had the same cyclic temp problem. Up to this time, I have checked numerous times for exhaust gases in the radiator with zero results. Time to get serious so I removed the engine, tore it completely down and had it double hot tanked. Got it all back together and ran it in my garage for 45 minutes to check it out. Temp to about 190 and shut it off. When I checked the water level 20 minutes later (yes with a rag over the cap) there was no pressure relief at all. Just like taking the cap off a cold radiator. The next morning my Son was to take a ride with me to check things out. Walked around the car after it had run for a couple minutes only to find water (not moisture) coming out of the driver side exhaust. Immediately checked the radiator for exhaust gases again with instant results to the positive. Blue turned bright yellow and a full stream of bubbles. Out comes the engine, torn down and purchase the Speedway pressure tester. 60# pressure with no indicated leak using soapy water. #8 cylinder appeared to have been steam cleaned. I have talked to a few machinists and engineers that have suggested that I have a block crack that remains tight until a certain point in heat is reached making it open more. It finally got bad enough to remain open and grab my full attention. No crack can be seen with a mag, glass anywhere in the cyl or valve pockets. May be in exhaust runner in back. Does any of this sound logical to you guys? Anyone need a block to fill with cement and go racing? lol It is very hard for me to give it up to the junk yard. I have a new block all ready to replace this one and hoping for the best. I would appreciate any comment you may have. Fourdy __________________ My 24 T https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=fourdy

03-13-2018, 02:52 PM	#2
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: Cracked block woes Here is a perfect home for Tod's new block!

03-13-2018, 02:55 PM	#3
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Cracked block woes They have a bad habbit of leaking thrue the headbolt going into the middle exhaust runner. Material crack in the middle separating upper and lower part of the threaded hole. A loooong timesert insert in that hole solves that type of leak or even a longer thread on the stud.

03-13-2018, 03:53 PM	#5
Fordestes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 886	Re: Cracked block woes Try to borrow a black light and a little fluorescent dye and put it under pressure. a minute trace will shine like a diamond in a goats a--, you may be scrapping a repairable block, If you were closer I would dye test and pressure it up ,I can understand your frustrations especially when it cant be detected with pressure alone.

03-13-2018, 03:56 PM	#6
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: Cracked block woes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Don't forget----- it could be the HEAD.

03-13-2018, 03:32 PM	#4
B-O-B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft Mohave,Az Posts: 1,987	Re: Cracked block woes You are looking at it with a magnifying glass but did you or anyone Mag the block with a electro magnet & iron shavings ?

03-13-2018, 04:00 PM	#7
Fordestes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 886	Re: Cracked block woes Another hint would be to use fluorescent mag iron powder, it can line up and then be seen with a black light somewhat easier than reg. white powder mag dust.

03-13-2018, 10:16 PM	#9
richard crow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,769	Re: Cracked block woes put it two geter get a can of zotight do as the inst. say problem solved

03-13-2018, 10:22 PM	#10
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: Cracked block woes Fourdy I had a similar problem with a block that I had put a lot of money & effort into. Ultimately it was a crack in the passenger side exhaust port for cylinder #4. There was no fix for it that I could find anywhere. I ended up starting out with a new block that I got from Vern Tardell. Very sad

03-13-2018, 10:52 PM	#11
Fourdy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 601	Re: Cracked block woes Kahuna - that is exactly what we are beginning to believe my problem is only mine is in #8. Yes - extremely dissapointing. I do have another machined block sitting in my garage and hope to be back on the road again. It is just hard to make the final decision to "toss" it. Fourdy __________________ My 24 T https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=fourdy

03-14-2018, 12:28 AM	#12
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Cracked block woes Pressure test and a borescope should be able to find the leak ?? Magnaflux is limited to what the eye can see. Heated pressure test tanks are used on aluminum heads just because of this reason that cracks open up when getting hot.

03-14-2018, 09:16 AM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: Cracked block woes A pressure test won't help you "find" a leak in an exhaust port but if it won't hold its mud then it can confirm an exhaust port leak. The usually crack through in the siamese center ports but they can crack anywhere and some just can't be seen.

03-14-2018, 09:48 AM	#14
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,304	Re: Cracked block woes Just curious. What type block is this? Is it an 8BA, a 59A, or one of the earlier ones (99a, etc.). I've scanned the thread twice, and I don't believe it's specified.

03-14-2018, 11:08 AM	#16
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Cracked block woes I've used Morso stop leak with some success. How long it will last is????

03-14-2018, 11:29 AM	#17
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Cracked block woes Fourdy, i had the same experience as you have. I was convinced there was a crack in the roof of the intake runner that nothing would help visualize. I too purchased the pressure test kit from Speedway, and it eventually pinpointed the crack. Mine was in the bore, but the crack didnt start until 2 inches down the bore and proceeded only 1 1/2 inches. Its hard to imagine it was missed during the build, or if it occured after the build. I too tried to will the problem away, not wanting to give up on the block. A second look with a pressure test might turn something up. With mine, i could have easily missed it again, as the crack showed so little leakage, and only showed leaking in a 1/8" portion of the crack. Added after Ron's post. No prior attempt with block sealer resolved my problem.

03-14-2018, 12:40 PM	#19
richard crow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,769	Re: Cracked block woes i will say it again i have had flat heads when running the water was coming out the exhaust pipe put zotight block saver in & never had problems even years later this stuff works what do you have to loose just the price of the zotight

03-14-2018, 01:16 PM	#22
Fourdy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 601	Re: Cracked block woes Tubman - It is the 8ba block. Russ/40 - you feel my pain. We pressure tested the block twice using Dawn detergent and water sprayer. I wasn't sure if it could really detect a leak until seeing how much foaming occured from a minute leak from the bolt rubber gasket. Not being able to completely immerse the block, it was on an engine stand so it could be rotated. All surfaces, holes chambers were soaked and produced NO foaming. I could keep spending my Flatty $$'s trying to find and fix the problem or donate it to what we refer to as a "boat anchor" here in the great Northwest. Oh, I do have and used a borescope with no results. It sure is interesting to see what is inside these blocks. I appreciate all of your comments and advice. Fourdy __________________ My 24 T https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=fourdy

03-14-2018, 01:30 PM	#23
Fourdy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 601	Re: Cracked block woes richard crow I have bookmarked the zotight page for future need. I would be willing to try it before tearing the engine down. Now not worth the expense of putting it all back together for a possible fix. Thank you for the info. Fourdy __________________ My 24 T https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=fourdy

03-14-2018, 07:45 PM	#26
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: Cracked block woes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When I pressure test, I fill the block with water and then pressurize it to 60 psi.

03-17-2018, 09:23 AM	#28
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: Cracked block woes What's to be scared of? I am a plumbing contractor and the city water pressure in our house plumbing is 60 psi or even higher in some areas. I figure the block passes a test at 60 psi, it will surely be OK in the chassis.

03-17-2018, 09:37 AM	#29
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: Cracked block woes Water under pressure just sprays out, it's air --or other gases under pressure(including staem) that you worry about--just look at air compressor explosions, water is used for testing pressure vessels, it there is a failure it splits and leaks ---

03-17-2018, 12:58 PM	#30
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: Cracked block woes Given that the cylinder is washed down - like it was steam cleaned, that makes me think that the water must be coming into the cylinder - which is probably not an exhaust port leak. My first guess would be a head gasket - did you carefully inspect the gaskets? What type are you using? Also, I'd do another pressure test on the block - but I'd poor hot boiling water into it - before you put on the water pump block-off plates. Get the block hot - see if that changes the story in #8. Good luck! I know the sickening feeling of a cracked block - especially one that has had a lot of work done to it . . . keeps a feller up at night! B&S

03-17-2018, 06:40 PM	#31
Fourdy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Port Townsend, WA Posts: 601	Re: Cracked block woes B&S "BEST" gaskets sealed with copper gasket paint. The gasket had to be torn apart to get the head off then then putty knifed to clean the surface o stuck on material. I have used three sets of "big bore" gaskets on this block with two separate kinds of heads (merc and Edelbrock) with heating problems leading up to the final occurrence as as described before. I just can't make myself junk the block yet so I will set it aside for now and get my new engine put together. Anxious to get back o the road again. Fourdy __________________ My 24 T https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=fourdy

03-18-2018, 01:05 PM	#34
bill3337 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Victoria, British Columbia Posts: 176	Re: Cracked block woes I wouldn't junk the block until I knew for sure what the problem was. I think it's worthwhile to take it to a professional shop who can do the magnafluxing. I'd want to know what the issue is.

05-10-2018, 09:41 PM	#36
Dave/Green Bay Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Green Bay Posts: 391	Re: Cracked block woes Jack just tested 2 blocks for me a 35LB and a 8ba using his 60 pound testing method. The 8ba ended up having several cracks inside the exhaust posts. I wasted time and money pining the block before the test. Wish I had taken it to him before the money waste. His testing method does work. I was about to build the engine which would have been a complete wasted of money building what I thought was a good block. Thanks Jack for your help. Dave/Green Bay