Classtique Upholstery

[Marshall V. Daut]

"...after reading all of this, I believe it pays to become a bank robber."

Actually asked of Great Depression era bank robber Willie Sutton during one of his incarcerations:
Reporter: "Why do you rob banks?
Sutton: "Because that's where the money is."

Hard to argue with that logic. This quip is often attributed to John Dillinger. But if he did say that, he was not the first one to do so.
Marshall

[Brubaker]

Loooking at the problem from a slightly different angle, I wish there was a way to part-time mentor someone on the restoration skills or occupations soon to be needed such as upholstery and many other specialized skills pertinent to antique auto restoration.
Personally speaking, I cannot leave my current job/profession for ~10 years but could dedicate some time to learn a new specific skill. Tough to pull-off from the cooperator's end. Using Mike at Classtique as an example, he's so busy he couldn't exactly conduct a MasterClass or Zoom session to tutor (although if he did I'd be first in line!). I know just a 'pipe dream' but there is interest out there to help (somehow). Difficulty lies in matching 'need' with available 'help' (as always).

Bruce

[Sunny the Model A]

Originally Posted by oldbluoval

times they is ah changin’

and i don’t like any of it!!!

amen!

[Sunny the Model A]

Originally Posted by Planojc

As a kid in the 50's and 60's I learned many skills by working on my old car, just to keep it running. Changing the points, plugs, condenser, rebuilding the carburetor, etc. taught me a lot, but the cars today are not anywhere easy to work on. Even the dealerships can't fix them.

I'm only 21, but I learned the hard way how hard those jellybeans are to work on. I can't even look at the damn things without them chirping or freaking out that something else is wrong. That's the reason I drive an A Model Ford. I am not computer minded, give me an old Ford however and I can work on it with ease.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Brubaker

Loooking at the problem from a slightly different angle, I wish there was a way to part-time mentor someone on the restoration skills or occupations soon to be needed such as upholstery and many other specialized skills pertinent to antique auto restoration.
Personally speaking, I cannot leave my current job/profession for ~10 years but could dedicate some time to learn a new specific skill. Tough to pull-off from the cooperator's end. Using Mike at Classtique as an example, he's so busy he couldn't exactly conduct a MasterClass or Zoom session to tutor (although if he did I'd be first in line!). I know just a 'pipe dream' but there is interest out there to help (somehow). Difficulty lies in matching 'need' with available 'help' (as always).

Bruce

Upholstery seems to be a dying art/trade. My grandfather, and his brother both were upholsterers, but I never learned it, and now they have long since been gone. I have his sheers, and his upholsters hammer but that is it. I was at a chapter meeting this summer, and a couple visited our meeting, and they made presentations on different things they offer. The host home, he had a coupe that they upholstered, and it looked even nicer than my Lebaron-Bonney.

My Grand-Father was an upholsterer for Curtis-Wright, and later Rockwell Aviation. He covered seats, and made things like wing covers. We always upholstered all our furniture. He learned doing furniture in a shop. His Brother lined caskets (before his death a result of US Coast Guard accident) for Belmont Casket Co.

There seems to be people that can weld, fabricate metal, and even paint.

[rotorwrench]

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I was on C-list one day and saw some sewing machines offered up by a local furniture manufacturer that was going into a new line of work. The owner had three Consew 206 models and one Pfaff. All were walking foot models with reverse. The guy was going into the medical clothing field and didn't need heavy machinery anymore. He was subbing a lot of stuff out to Vietnamese manufacturers anyway. I bought the best one of those machines and have never regretted it.

San Antonio used to have a Levi Strauss manufacturing plant. A large portion of the workers were 3rd or 4th generation Mexican lmmigrants, and they worked for what I consider to be normal union wages. The plant shut down back in the 2000s, and all the work went down into Mexico. A lot of good sewing machine operators were out of a job. All the machines went south too. Most workers had to either retire or find a new line of work. This is the way of the new globalist corporate world. There is no loyalty to the USA in that bunch.

[jrelliott]

You all are correct about problem solving skills and hands on experience. In 7th grade wood shop learned graphic design by doing mechanical drawings. Being able to see a 2 dimensional drawing and translating into a solid is a learned skill. Took wood shop in 7th and 8th grade. Still use a lot of those skills today as have a cabinet shop. Had to take two semesters of mechanical drawing in college for degree in EE/Computer science. After two years of college, dropped out and went into the Navy for Electronics Technician. The Navy taught us excellent trouble shooting skills. After the Navy was working at a small electronics company where we were taught how to use a vertical mill, metal lathe and various other tools. Got recruited by IBM as a technician, and eventually got a degree in EE/Computer science. In rebuilding my A, learned upholstery, welding, and painting. Had learned about cars as a youngster with my father's help. Not every kid is college material. There are very many trades where you can earn a good living and be able to leave work and not think about the job the next day. Myself ended up as a engineer designing tests for ASIC computer chips which were on the cutting edge of technology. Looked forward to going into work each day for the challenges that I would encounter. Wish there was a way to instill that enthusiasm on the younger generation. You are correct that it is the parents that have created the younger folks that have no goals, or work ethic, and want hand outs. Lets go back to the principal, no work-no free meal.

[Marshall V. Daut]

The government paying younger workers NOT to work and giving them more money than they had earned at their jobs a couple years ago sent the wrong message to the wrong people at the wrong time in their lives, just when they were learning how to survive in the work-a-day world. It will take another generation to undo the damage that one act alone did to the younger work force, whose idea of work and its rewards are now completely skewed in the wrong direction. This is not a political or partisan party rant. It is a commentary on a very poor governmental decision that has seriously damaged our work force and our economic system. And we haven't seen the bottom of this pit yet.
Marshall

[ronn]

Alex, well said. Couldnt agree more.


Marshall I love to hear those old quips. So many were spot on and really hard to argue with!

[Jeff/Illinois]

I understand Mike up at Classtique's is very good at what he does, and very busy at his shop, but give me a refresher on this subject....

For many years LeBarron Bonney was well known and used for their interior services. So exactly just why did they close? It seems like there is enough business out there for several shops/suppliers?

If God forbid something happens to Mike we are all in a world of hurt.

[Synchro909]

I hear what all of you guys are saying but I have a different take on why it is so. For the past few decades, it has not been necessary to win a race to get a prize - everybody gets one. That has led to a generation of self entitled brats who have learned that they are just as good, maybe better than everybody else. They have been told "You can do anything you like." so many times they heartily believe it. The problem is, they have never been told the rest of it like we were back in the 1950s and 60s. "You can do anything you like SO LONG AS IT DOESN'T HARM ANYBODY ELSE." Without the last bit, the first is very dangerous and we are just starting to see that it is. But not by most.
The same thing applies in the class room. A student does not need to pass the end of year exam (even if they have exams) to move on the the next year level so the further you go, the greater are the number of dumb kids mixed in the class holding back those who do have a few IQ points.
Teachers are not held in high regard over here and although some are excellent, too many should not be teaching. 2 years after I completed my secondary school education and entered university, I found myself in the same mathematics lecture hall as my secondary school maths teacher. He was an excellent teacher but I wonder how much better he would have been if he had a better understanding of mathematics when he taught us.
Having just re read this, I realise that the old saying is dead right. "A fish rots from the head" It is clear to me that our western world is and has been in decline for years and it is those at the "top" who are to blame or maybe it is us, after all, we voted them in there.

[alexiskai]

A 2019 study by the University of Michigan stated that "the labor-force participation rate of prime-age
American men has decreased in a near-continuous fashion from 97.2% in 1960 to 88.2% in 2015—a cumulative decline of 9 percentage points. Considering that the population of prime-age men in 2015 was around 61.4 million, the secular decline in participation implies a cumulative loss of 5.53 million men from the prime-age workforce."

However, they found that the declining rate of labor force participation (LFP) by young men was not significantly influenced by going on welfare (though this did affect older men) or by declining inflation-adjusted wages (the wages have declined but there's no causal connection with LFP).

They also found that there was "little evidence that average skill levels in the high-school-dropout and high-school-graduate populations declined" between those born around 1960 and those born around 1980, even though LFP had declined during the intervening 20 years.

What they did find was that declining LFP among less-educated young men seemed to be connected to two things:
1. increased rates of women entering the labor market between 1970 and 2015 and competing against less-educated men for unskilled jobs, particularly in manufacturing, and
2. men are getting married later.

The authors of the study pointed to #2 in particular as an under-appreciated driver of reductions in young male LFP. They found that starting a family was a significant incentive for young men to obtain steady employment, so as men in this age cohort became less likely over the decades to be married, it became less important to them to move out of their parents' house. When they did get married, they delayed having kids for longer, which allowed a greater proportion of non-working men to live off their spouse's income.

To quote from the study:

As of 2015, only white high school graduates above age 35 were married a majority of the time... While parental co-residence was a rare event in 1970, by 2015 over 25% of whites and 40% of blacks aged 25–34 lived with a parent... Previous work has associated marriage with a decline in irresponsible male behavior, such as crime and excessive drug and alcohol use... Male participation in the labor force may also be a socially responsible activity that, like the avoidance of pathological behaviors, is intertwined with stable marriage. To the extent that the gains from marriage depend on male earnings, married men face an additional incentive to find and maintain a job. Indeed, the securing of gainful employment may even be
stipulated by men’s (explicit or implicit) marital contracts with their wives.

Link to the study if you want more info:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7745920/

[midgetracer]

" these damn kids these days; They don't want to work and expect everything for nothing." Same thing I heard when I was a teenager. I'm sure my parents heard that same thing when they were teenagers. I'm 75, but I ran a business for most of my life and I found that if you treated your employees as the valuable assets that they were, they would work really hard and make you lots of money that you could share with them. Have we become unappreciative of the younger generation. Personally I do not see things as changed from previous generations. appreciation and kindness go along way to build loyalty and remember that none of us were born competent without training. Just my humble opinion.

[Synchro909]

You make a good point, midget.

[ronn]

For many years LeBarron Bonney was well known and used for their interior services. So exactly just why did they close? It seems like there is enough business out there for several shops/supplier?


Unskilled labor, as Brent so aptly mentioned at the beginning of this thread......
if you cant find people who understand the skill set, then you have no product.


What is entirely surprising to me, is that some of these kits arent made off shore and we could all complain about the quality. Surely india could make cheap upholstery kits?

[German guy]

It is a reality that there is a shortage of skilled workers but I would hesitate to blame it on 'smart phones' or any other electronic media. Easy access to information does not negatively impact the application of higher order skills (think Bloom's Taxonomy) such as Assessment, Evaluation, or Creativity. These adult thinking skills are as important to mechanical skill development as they are to academic work. This deficit comes from a society ravaged by the idea that 'believing' is the same as 'knowing', and that everyone's opinion is of equal value. There is an absence of epistemological methodology in the parts of society which have not moved into higher education...with the average US high school grad leaving 12 years of school reading at or below the 6th grade level (depending on state...with Texas and many southern states resting at the 4th grade level) and never having been exposed to the rigors of having to validate an opinion with fact. It becomes very difficult to train an apprentice who is convinced that his/her opinion is as valid as the master mechanic. This becomes increasingly problematic when higher salaries and benefits are available elsewhere. The US is suffering far more than other industrial countries which have maintained a more rigid education system. "Diplomas for everyone" simply does not work.

[Chuck Kuntz]

Did anyone else note that the quality of LB interiors had declined in recent years. The last one I purchased for my 36 coupe did not fit well at all. I also purchased one for my 33 tudor but have not got around to installing it as yet. My Dad and I had installed several LB interiors in the 70's and 80's with no real problems.

[Marshall V. Daut]

'Gotta echo Chuck's sentiments. I saw the same alarming downward trend in quality over the final years of LB. Boy, were those kits great in the 1960's and 70's, though - and affordable! An ENTIRE new top assembly with material for a '30-31 DeLuxe Roadster for $495??? Even at pre-inflationary dollars, that was a deal. And the quality and fit were excellent. 'Really miss those days, too. LB was one vendor that could always be counted on in a positive way.
Marshall

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by German guy

It is a reality that there is a shortage of skilled workers but I would hesitate to blame it on 'smart phones' or any other electronic media. Easy access to information does not negatively impact the application of higher order skills (think Bloom's Taxonomy) such as Assessment, Evaluation, or Creativity. These adult thinking skills are as important to mechanical skill development as they are to academic work. This deficit comes from a society ravaged by the idea that 'believing' is the same as 'knowing', and that everyone's opinion is of equal value. There is an absence of epistemological methodology in the parts of society which have not moved into higher education...with the average US high school grad leaving 12 years of school reading at or below the 6th grade level (depending on state...with Texas and many southern states resting at the 4th grade level) and never having been exposed to the rigors of having to validate an opinion with fact. It becomes very difficult to train an apprentice who is convinced that his/her opinion is as valid as the master mechanic. This becomes increasingly problematic when higher salaries and benefits are available elsewhere. The US is suffering far more than other industrial countries which have maintained a more rigid education system. "Diplomas for everyone" simply does not work.

I definitely agree with you on many of these thoughts.

I do have a question though. You made the statement that many students graduate high school reading at a level of a 6th grader. Who established the benchmark for what a 6th grade level is? Since generally nothing seeming is as it really was any longer (i.e.: 50 is the new 40, etc.), has the Regents now lowered the benchmark of a 12th grade education?

Ohh, and the reason why I say the 'smart phone' has ruined this country is because much of what you are saying was a direct result of usage of a smart phone. For example, some 50 years ago as a teenager, I probably had 40-50 telephone numbers memorized of friends & family. I struggle remembering my own telephone number now since my 'smart phone' remembers them for me. When I was in school, I memorized how a word was spelled, -and even learned to recognize if a word was misspelled. Now, my 'smart phone' corrects my spelling (-whether I want to or not). Some 50+ years ago I needed to be able to do math (addition, subtraction, multiplcation,etc.) in my head when calculating numbers required for everyday tasks. My 'smart phone' as taken the need for us to be able to accurately do math in our head. A great for example, when we had an appointment to keep, we factored in the approximate distance, speed traveled, and how much factor for delays to know when to leave to go to an appointment. Now I tell my 'smart phone' where I want to go (-not the address necessarily but the place) and my phone tells me when I will arrive and how to get there. Sure all of these examples are for convenience, but we are now seeing the effects of how our problem solving abilities, and/or our memorizational or knowledge retaining skills have greatly deteriorated. People's nature is to be lazy, ...if enabled to be lazy. It is my opinion the use of the 'smart phone' has enabled more people to become lazy instead of them becoming smarter.

[Marshall V. Daut]

"...but we are now seeing the effects of how our problem solving abilities, and/or our memorizational or knowledge retaining skills have greatly deteriorated."

What you don't use, you lose.
Marshall