Next Winter's Columbia Project

[SoCalCoupe]

Just bought a '38 Zephyr rear end with a Columbia & controls to mate up to my '41 Ford. Supposedly it was rebuilt 20 years ago but the owner became ill before it could be installed. The estate sold the Zephyr and the rear end separately. The person who bought the Zephyr wasn't interested.


Talked to John Connelly in Arizona and it sounds like i can swap the Columbia internals into a '41 housing and then mate it up to my car. Went through the box of control parts and they're a mish-mash of 35-36 parts and 37-41 parts. I'll have to decide which way to go and sell off the rest. Even though the 35-36 parts are more complete, I'll probably sell those off to complete the set of 37-41 parts.


Looking forward to it. The T5 project is permanently canceled. Now that the 3-speed is shifting correctly it's fun to drive. That said, for my preferences, might as well stay period correct.


Getting a new set of Diamondback radials next week to replace my 22 year old bias plys. Added an LED 3rd brake light this past weekend. Saw the thread about the 6V LED headlights. That sounds like a great conversion too.


Should be ready to cruise on the Interstate with confidence by next spring.

[Ken/Alabama]

The Columbia internals are the same between Ford and Lincoln Zephyr. The track width between the 38 Zephyr and your 41 Ford is the same. The Lincoln Columbia axle housing has a larger spring stud. I made a bushing to fit the eye of the spring hanger with the inside diameter to suit the stock Ford spring stud.I ran one like that in my 40 for years.

[hotcoupe]

SoCalCoupe, nice going on the Columbia and staying period correct, really like what you're doing with your car. When you have plenty of "go", you need plenty of "whoa", I would suggest getting some Lincoln brakes, at least on the front. My avatar has a mild flathead with a Columbia, never felt comfortable with the '40 Ford brakes, put Lincoln brakes on the front only, the difference is unbelievable.
Tom

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

SoCalCoupe, nice going on the Columbia and staying period correct, really like what you're doing with your car. When you have plenty of "go", you need plenty of "whoa", I would suggest getting some Lincoln brakes, at least on the front. My avatar has a mild flathead with a Columbia, never felt comfortable with the '40 Ford brakes, put Lincoln brakes on the front only, the difference is unbelievable.
Tom

Intersting, Tom. Thanks for posting, I'm also considering swapping my '40 fronts to LZ brakes on my '28 AV8.

SoCal, very cool about the Columbia. That should make a great set up

[blucar]

My '36 had a Columbia under it when I bought the car in September 1952. I did not like the early controls so I switched the car to '46-48 electric over vacuum controls. In late '54 I switched the Columbia to a '47-48 unit using a combination of Ford parts to bolt the whole system together. I still have the original '36 3.78 center-section with the '36 torque tube drive line.
I used my '36 for daily transportation for many years, covering all of the Western States and the freeways of Southern California, putting over 94 k on the car.
I don't see the need to convert the headlights to LED on the early cars. I converted my '36 to sealed beams in '52 using a relay in the system to make sure I got the full 6v to the lights. I have done a lot of night driving on the open highways of the Western US, never saw a need for brighter lights.
I got sucked into the craze to convert to Halogen headlights on my '39, big mistake, just converted them back to original reflector type headlights using Ron Francis Bright Bulbs.

[SoCalCoupe]

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Originally Posted by hotcoupe

SoCalCoupe, nice going on the Columbia and staying period correct, really like what you're doing with your car. When you have plenty of "go", you need plenty of "whoa", I would suggest getting some Lincoln brakes, at least on the front. My avatar has a mild flathead with a Columbia, never felt comfortable with the '40 Ford brakes, put Lincoln brakes on the front only, the difference is unbelievable.
Tom

Sounds like your Lincoln brakes were a great mod. Plenty of "whoa" is more important than the go. Could you say a little bit more about that upgrade? It's kind of hard to search on. How do I figure out what parts are needed and where do I search for them?


Why are the Lincoln brakes better? I'm guessing they're just bigger and have a wider range of pedal pressure before they lock up.



Did a disc brake conversion another car and loved it. Some folks here don't like the disc brake conversion and it doesn't fit well with the period correct theme of my current car.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

......

Why are the Lincoln brakes better? I'm guessing they're just bigger and have a wider range of pedal pressure before they lock up.

Mainly, because they are self-energizing, unlike the original Lockheed types.

This means that the action of braking itself increases the pressure on the shoes, rather than relying on just your leg.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

Mainly, because they are self-energizing, unlike the original Lockheed types.

This means that the action of braking itself increases the pressure on the shoes, rather than relying on just your leg.

Tubman is correct, but let's dig just a little deeper. This is a little tutorial of sorts that I stirred-up a while back in an attempt to make it more clear just how "SELF-ENERGIZING" (also known as "Bendix-type") brakes work. BELOW is a perfect example of a Lockheed - Ford "non-self-energizing" brake assembly. Simple as it gets with two shoes, each shoe fixed to rotate on a pin at the bottom. The top half of each shoe produces some friction against the drum, depending on how hard you can push.




Most assuredly, NO self-energizing going on here!

Then, Bendix came-up with a revolutionary design that once you get the shoes to touch the drum and ROTATE (as an assembly) in the direction of rotation of the drum. Picture below is of an early Bendix brake backing plate. I chose it to easily illustrate the pieces involved in an early, simple, Bendix (or "self-energizing") drum brake.





They will bolt to the early Ford spindles and early rear end with no fuss. Without the shoes being directly tied to the backing plate, the whole shoe mechanism is able to rotate in the forward direction of the drum as the shoes begin to expand at top and succumb to friction with drum. In this typical "Bendix"-type configuration, I figure the MOST important part of the whole assembly is the ANCHOR PIN. It is the TINY-Looking piece at the very top to which the two springs are hooked. Actually, the pin looks more like this picture BELOW.




When properly centered and locked-down in the CORRECT location on the backing plate, the pin is immovable. It also determines how far inboard the brake shoes will retract, as each shoe has a corresponding rounded surface which should match the proper geometry when the shoes are centered in the DRUM. In other words, there SHOULD be some provision for adjusting this pin upward, or downward BEFORE tightening in place.

After you watch this short video below, you will see how that pin allows no CIRCUMFERENTIAL movement of the REAR shoe. The REAR shoe can only be jammed into the rear half of the drum by the FRONT shoe being rotated by the forward rotation of wheel. The REAR shoe cannot be rotated because that pin restricts the rotation of the REAR shoe. Rear shoe's friction surface just gets pushed harder and harder into the rear of drum's stopping surface. Click the link BELOW for short, 3-minute video - THE MOST-IMPORTANT PART. Easy-peazy!

https://youtu.be/n0OFhyxo4As


Coop

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[glennpm]

Great tech article Coop!

It would be nice to have it as a separate thread. Perhaps Ryan could help with this?

Glenn

[hotcoupe]

SoCalCoupe, good info from Tubman and coopman, the only thing I can add is, the parts that I used came from Boling Bros. If your drums are in good shape, you just need the backing plates, shoes(1 3/4"), and internal parts. It will be the best money you ever spent.
Tom

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Great tech article Coop!

It would be nice to have it as a separate thread. Perhaps Ryan could help with this?

Glenn

The more I thought about that .... you're RIGHT, Glenn! And I am gonna make that happen!!! Give me a little bit.

Coop

.

[glennpm]

Great job Coop!!

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

The Columbia internals are the same between Ford and Lincoln Zephyr. The track width between the 38 Zephyr and your 41 Ford is the same. The Lincoln Columbia axle housing has a larger spring stud. I made a bushing to fit the eye of the spring hanger with the inside diameter to suit the stock Ford spring stud.I ran one like that in my 40 for years.

Took a lot of measurements this morning and, as Ken says, the Columbia housing appears to be the same length from differential housing to the wheel backing plate as my ’41 Ford. My Ford has 10 symmetrical bolt holes in the differential housing while the Zephyr has 11 non-symmetrical holes. Nevertheless, on the Columbia, there’s an unused bolt hole (you can see in the photo) that I could use, and two that could go unused (one to either side of the currently unused) to match up to my 10 symmetrical holes. The diameter of the mating surface is the same.
I’ve heard from John Connelly of ColumbiaTwoSpeed that the authentic 1941 Columbia housing has a 1941-only tab which I believe refers to the bit of metal hanging down from the shock mount point but it seems I don’t necessarily need the tab unless I’m going for a 1000 point restoration.
On the other hand, also as Ken says, I’d need a bushing for the spring mount. It’s much larger than the Ford.


Something else, the shock mount hole is ½” further outboard on the Ford than the Zephyr. Looks like using the Zephyr shock mount point on the Ford would seriously mess up the shock arm and lever geometry.



Any advice on finding a bushing or dealing with shock mount geometry?

[jimTN]

I believe you will find that the Lincoln center section is a 4:44 gear which is a little slow. A ford center section will mate up to the Lincoln housings. If I remember right the torque tube driveshaft combination is different than the ford at least I think the one I changed out was.

[SoCalCoupe]

OK. Exchanged my Zephyr Columbia housing for a '41 Ford housing with John Connelly. Ordered all the other parts and diagrams from him too. He's a REALLY great guy to work with. Very patient with all the questions. He must love his work; thank goodness for the EFV8 community! It's like he charged me a fair price for his time on the phone and I got the parts for free.



I think I now have EVERYTHING to install the Columbia on my car.


Have to say it one more time, but, my original intention on buying the car was to install a 5 speed. Really wanted a flathead but was ignorant about the torque tube. With all due respect to V8Coopman, the T5 is a great conversion but on on my current car, the 3-on-the-tree + the Columbia will satisfy my requirements better. Next flathead project, T5 is still a top contender.



Coming up in the next few months. I'm more confident in the Columbia project than the head replacement project.

[tubman]

I understand what you are saying. Ten years ago, I was seriously considering a T5 for my '51. Advancing years and infirmities made me come to the conclusion that what I really wanted were fewer gear changes, not more. After doing a little reading and research, I discovered that a stock overdrive offered many advantages. Along with a better rear-end ratio, improved economy and less engine wear, they can function much like an automatic around town. I hope I can find someone to finish the conversion for me, as I am coming to the conclusion that I'll never get it done myself.

[47topless]

An original 2 speed Columbia overdrive is all you need in these old flatheads. Speed # 1=in Speed #2= out. This was such a marvelous innovation, at the time, and having one in your car, today, that you can have the pleasure of operating, is sheer joy.

[blucar]

I did a write-up in #5 (03-26 2023) when this topic first appeared detailing my experience with early Columbia's vs late '46-48 electric over vacuum..
From my point of view, the versatility and ease of operation of the Columbia's out weigh the cost and hassle to convert a car to a T5 trans or a drive line based OD (Gearvendor).

I am currently working on a '38 Buick Spl, 2dr sdn which is a dead stock unmolested 37K car. I could not resist this car when I first saw it, body, interior, chrome, etc., were in as new condition, the mechanical components were another store, in the sack of keeping the car original, "Band Aids" had been placed on just about every component, brakes, motor mounts, radiator, etc.
The man I bought the car from had purchased it from the original owners estate. I think he must have trailer'd it from car function to function. The paperwork that came with the car indicated that no mileage had been put on the car from 1940 to 1946, which is an indication that the car had been put away during the duration of WWII.
A couple of months ago I decided it was time to stop looking at this 'jewel', and get busy with the required repairs.
Every thing we touched, brakes, suspension, etc., was original GM, pure worn out junk, the brakes were soaked in gear oil and brake fluid.
The power train was disassembled to install new seals and gaskets, the clutch was soaked in oil due to a leaking rear n=main seal and pan gasket.
I like to drive my cars so the question arose, what to do to make the car more road worthy. The axle ratio is 4.40, pretty low for highway use.. Buick offered an automatic trans in '38 should I look for one of those, The Centuries came with 3.90 ratio because they were fast cars.. Should I look for a very rare 3.90 ratio rear axle. What about the brakes?? in today's crazy traffic.. Maybe disk brake conversion.. Nada!

The car is going back together with all new stock components, with the exception of the brakes. we are adding a small HYDRA-VAC brake boaster up inside of the frame to give the 85 year old brake system a little help.
Ford used Hydra-Vac type boasters on many of their vehicles during the 1950's . My '56-57 T-Birds and 59 F100 have Hydra-Vac brake boasters.

[Ken/Alabama]

One other thing to look for is on the Lincoln Columbia the A-6 housing doesn’t have an oil plug to check the oil level ,the Lincoln had a hypoid differential and the plug on the differential was used to check the oil level unlike the Ford A-6 unit had a separate oil plug.