car died, starts later

[stillwater]

I was riding with a friend to our Model A Club meeting tonight. Weather went crappy quick(sunny, to humid/rain...in case this matters).

Car died...rolling into a restart twice but kept dying. And then it wouldn't start.
Was getting fuel...but no spark.

Waited about ten minutes, started right up.

Any advice on what may have caused this/ how to avoid in the future?

[lindy williams]

Its good that you identified it as a spark problem when it died. I''d say that the most likely suspect is an overheated condensor.

[Tom Wesenberg]

That same thing happened to a guy in our club when we were on tour. Ford never used rubber boots on either end of the coil wire, but many people add them. His coil boot trapped a few drops of water and shorted the spark to ground.

BTW, I won't use boots, just to stay more original, beside the fact it can trap water.

[Jacksonlll]

Sure sounds like fuel. Make sure.

[fundytides]

Both coils and condensers can cause this problem

[Step-down]

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Hot coils die

[SeaSlugs]

yea ign parts usually fail hot and can fix themselves as they cool. gonna be a bit tricky to diagnose but PLEASE change ONE part at a time and go for a drive. Bring some other spare parts with you in case it dies on you again and try to replicate the weather. Unfortinately with the openness of the model A ign system a bit of moisture from the ever leaky hood hinge area wouldn't take many water drops to start shorting out stuff.

or better yet run the car till it dies then quickly (carefully) change one component out and if it instantly restarts i would suspect the removed component.

[Big hammer]

This might be the only time for WD-40 would be helpful! Water Disbursement 40
At work one of the mechanics sprayed WD-40 on some spark plug wires on a non running truck and then it started! He then changed the plug wires.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Still,

Our local barber and his father-in-law both had outside-parked, non-restored, 1929 Model A Tudors, where prior to a rain, as a kid, I noticed they both always covered their top-hinged, hood joints with an oil cloth.

I remember when I asked why ....... both responded to prevent no-starts after heavy rains dripped drops of water on the coil wire, which flowed downward where the coil wire connected to the top distributor cap thus creating a short.

Then I noticed when I got my 1930 coupe, it had new coil wire rubber boots; but I never had this same problem of no-starts or engine dying; however, on top of my coil was an inverted baby food can.

I asked the former owner why ..... he responded the top of coils held water and caused the top of the coils to rust out, so when the tops of the baby food cans rusted, he just changed baby food cans.

These are actual "original", Model A events, prior to today's Restoration Forum Stories.

Problem today is trying to explain to young Model A owners ........ what is an oil cloth? .... and what is, or what size was a baby food can? ..... because Gerber's switched to baby food glass jars.

Moral of the story: Not all Model A's ever were alike ...... or ........ are still all alike!

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by Step-down

Hot coils die

This would be my bet. A coil will get hot under the hood. As it does the fine wires in the secondary winding can expand. The only insulation is a coat of lacquer. They can easily short. When he coil cools down all is well again.

I had this happen with two coils when I thought it a good idea to install a high performance coil. The first one drove me to frustration before I figured out what was going on. I was up in the desert with the ambient temperature at about 100 degrees. Every time I stopped for gas the car wouldn't start. When it finally did start it ran terrible for a mile or two until the temp under the hood came down. The second one failed the same way on another car.

Tom Endy

[H. L. Chauvin]

In 1960, I met a military instructor who said he was stationed in the Army in the 1950's in California where he told me he drove home several times to and from New York in his Model A.

He said he always carried about (10) condensers with him because they would stop functioning when they became overheated; however, in my driving Model A's for 50 years, I never had a Model A condenser or Model A a coil malfunction in 100 degree weather or any other weather.

Moral of the story: Not all Model A coils and/or condensers were ever alike ...... or ........ are still all alike!

I still have a few A & B condensers that look like Christopher Columbus brought them over on his first trip .... (not his later second trip) ..... they are not beautiful, but still function admirably.

[WestCoast]

you said you had fuel, so that eliminates a fuel problem, next two things to check are coil and condenser, when engine dies again put your hand on the coil, if its to hot to leave it there you have found the problem, if its not that hot install a new condensor

[Synchro909]

How did you check for fuel? If you simply undid the fuel line at the carby and got fuel, that doesn't mean there isn't a piece of crap blocking a jet. That said, all good advice above.

[sidhartha]

I'm the owner of he car and was driving. The car has a NuRex electronic ignition. There is no condenser in the system. It died before the rain started. It was in the 90's and the temp dropped considerably as the storm was rolling in. I pulled the screen in the front of the carb and was getting gas. I think it's possibly a bad coil or ignition module lost it ground. I need to carry one of the little spark testers with me. By the way does anyone know what the little bulb that is used inside the clear tube is made of or called?

[Dollar Bill]

By the way does anyone know what the little bulb that is used inside the clear tube is made of or called?

Don't understand - Need more dots ��

[sidhartha]

Snyder's sells them. Ignition tester. I'm curious as to what the bulb inside it is called so I can purchase a few and make my own cheaper. At least I think I can make them cheaper.

[Tom Wesenberg]

That's a neon bulb and can be purchased at Radio Shack, if any still exist, or ebay.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

That's a neon bulb and can be purchased at Radio Shack, if any still exist, or ebay.

nope no radio shacks - went bankrupt. Lowes has some stuff - but yes its just a neon lamp. might be listed as pilot light

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

That's a neon bulb and can be purchased at Radio Shack, if any still exist, or ebay.

I believe those bulbs were commonly used in power strips for the indicator light, though most now are probably LED's.

[Tom Wesenberg]

The neon bulb can also be found in lighted switches and sometimes the "ON" indicator lights in irons or other appliances.

[sidhartha]

I thought they were some sort of high voltage bulb.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by sidhartha

I thought they were some sort of high voltage bulb.

You need to use a resistor with the neon bulb.
Axman in the Twin Cities had some neon bulbs with the resistor for a buck or so a year ago.
If I get over that way I'll check to see if they still have any.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I went to the Ax-Man surplus store today, but couldn't find any neon lights.

If you go to the electrical section of Menards or a hardware store, check for a circuit tester, as they also have a neon bulb.

[stillwater]

thanks Tom, and everyone else for the help.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here you go, neon bulbs with the resistors for less than a nickel each.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100Pcs-4x10m...IAAOSwT-FZCwVy

[stewwolfe]

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Here you go, neon bulbs with the resistors for less than a nickel each.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100Pcs-4x10m...IAAOSwT-FZCwVy

Okay, I'm going to show my ignorance here, but how does it light by just holding it on a spark plug. How is the ground for the circuit completed?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by stewwolfe

Okay, I'm going to show my ignorance here, but how does it light by just holding it on a spark plug. How is the ground for the circuit completed?

The high voltage is enough to make it light without a ground wire. I've even held one end of a fluorescent tube to a spark plug and made it light up.

[stewwolfe]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

The high voltage is enough to make it light without a ground wire. I've even held one end of a fluorescent tube to a spark plug and made it light up.

Thank you, I never would have thought of that.

[sidhartha]

I managed to purchase some from Evil-Bay. Already have a bunch of clear tubes. Now I'll try to make some spark testers.

[stillwater]

"Evil-Bay"...lmao

[Karl]

Getting Back to the original thread (late in my case)
My Model A did the same thing -eventually traced it to a faulty ignition switch that was jiggling closed on me. Replaced this and no problems since . The other thing to check is that the ignition terminals are not intermittently grounding on the gas tank behind the dash -Karl