Front radius ball bolts rusted

[clocey]

I hope I am over thinking things but I could use some advice. While trying to remove my transmission to replace the clutch, the two nuts for the radius ball are frozen to the bolts and now both bolts spin.
I see I can buy a new radius ball kit from Snyder's with new cups and bolts, but I am uncertain on how to get mine out without ruining the transmission housing. Can I simple cut off the bolts and drop the radius arm and ball? Is there a bolt or something inside that holds this to the tranny or am I in trouble since these bolts are spinning?

Thanks in advance for your help

Curt

[Gary WA]

There are Radius Ball Socket Bolts/Radius Rod Pin. Do you have a parts/vendor catalog or Les Andrews Mechanic book they show these.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by clocey

I hope I am over thinking things but I could use some advice. While trying to remove my transmission to replace the clutch, the two nuts for the radius ball are frozen to the bolts and now both bolts spin.
I see I can buy a new radius ball kit from Snyder's with new cups and bolts, but I am uncertain on how to get mine out without ruining the transmission housing. Can I simple cut off the bolts and drop the radius arm and ball? Is there a bolt or something inside that holds this to the tranny or am I in trouble since these bolts are spinning?

Thanks in advance for your help

Curt

do exactly as you thought, cut the bolts off and save the radius ball cap pieces springs spacers etc. once you get the transmission out it will be obvious as to what happened (guessing that pin broke) new bolts and pin are rather cheap from any supplier.

when you put the new ones back on load em up with anti sieze before putting the nuts on.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If your bolts and nuts are rusted very tight, then I'd cut them and replace them with new ones. As mentioned, the bolt heads have a slot that the pin goes through to keep them from turning. The two bolts drop down into a pocket hole from the inside of the housing. Sometimes the pocket gets worn enough that the bolt sinks so low the notch in the bolt head is no longer engaging the pin. If this is the case maybe you can push the bolts up as you try to remove the nuts.

[clocey]

Thanks for the help. After scraping off a lot of gunk I found the pin. How are the bolts installed? Do they go in from the top? I am concerned I ruined my transmission case.

Curt

[Joe K]

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You can use a set of forceps (such as the 10" long ones sold for cheap at Harbor Freight) and lift the bolts up (and insert down) into the case from the center hole in the bottom. You may need to remove or push out of the way some cotton/felt waste Ford put there to catch oil coming from the rear main (and to act as oil reservoir to lubricate the radius rod ball.) The waste is not essential but is easily replaced to lesser quantity and to occupy the space below the cross retainer pin.

Safety glasses and a good LED headlamp are a help in this too. Getting hit in the eye with a dropped bolt can really reduce your enjoyment of the Model A.

Also, you may want to "deepen" or widen the groove in the head of the two bolts to allow the pin easier fit as you install it. You'll likely find a situation where you can put the pin in from one side, catch one of the bolt slots - but Lord Almighty Above, you won't be able to make the pin slot and second hole line up and push the pin home. Grinding the grooves a little deeper/wider helps make it easier. A chainsaw file is ideal for this work.

And it is possible to insert the bolts and NOT use a pin, but count on the action of the impact wrench to pull things tight. But better the pin.

Good luck. Been there done that.

Joe K

[Gunmetal blue2]

When you take the bell housing off to change the clutch you will see the heads of the bolts in the bottom of the bell housing with the pin that goes throw the top of the bolt heads. Did you take the cotter pins out of the bolt that locks the nut from turning off.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Curt -
First, take out the long pin's cotter pin and remove the bolt retainer pin that goes across the U-slot bolt heads. It's undoubtedly bent. That allows it to come out of the slots so that that bolts turn when you try to take the nuts off. Take the bent pin to K & K Hardware on 18th Street in Bettendorf and match the diameter with a new bolt that is perhaps an inch longer. This will be your temporary bolt that will be much easier to install than the straightened original pin, which in any case is too short for this purpose. Once that pin is bent, it's weak and will stretch and bend again under pressure. As you push in the new longer bolt, you will have to twist the bolts via the nuts below in order to align the slots in the heads so that the bolt will pass through them. Then the nuts can be removed because the bolts will not turn. You might want to apply a little heat on the nuts to help convince them to come off. 80 years of typical Iowa mud and rain in the dirt roads have undoubtedly rusted the nuts to the bolt threads.
Give me a holler if you can't get things apart. Cutting off the nuts is also an alternative, although the new bolt method is easier and less likely to cause damage to your car or you.
Marshall

[Ed in Maine]

Clocey, sawing off those bolts will be a lot of work. You might try what is called a nut buster. It is a device that slips over the nut and then with a wrench you tighten a heavy bolt that drives a wedge into the side of the nut. After a while the wedge gets deep enough into the nut and it splits. With the nut split, you almost can remove the nut with your fingers. When I first got my Model A, there were many nuts that were frozen. I used this tool to very good advantage.

One of the greatest accomplishments is removing a totally rusted, rounded over nut, cleaning the surrounding area, a little paint and new parts and everything is good as new! Have fun, Ed

[Marshall V. Daut]

I have used the nut cruncher years ago, but it wasn't all that successful in my case. Plus, the nuts Curt is trying to remove are among the largest diameter nuts found on a Model A, with the possible exception of the front wheel bearing retaining nuts. It would take a lot of effort to crack across and through these radius rod nuts. But who knows? Those old rusted nuts may just split apart easily. If all else fails that has been suggested so far, Curt could try the "Nutcracker Suite".
Marshall

[Joe K]

Blow the nuts off with an acetylene torch? Worked at the farm on nuts as small as 3/8". And many could be rethreaded and re-used.

But we didn't drive the farm machinery at high speeds - or on public roads.

Joe K

[clocey]

Thanks everyone for the help. The tranny is now sitting on the garage floor as I figure out how I am going to degrease it!!! I am heading to the swap meet in Woodstock, IL in the morning so hopefully there is a vendor or two there where I can buy some new bolts and pin.