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Old 01-12-2013, 03:32 PM   #1
Pete
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Default Perfect restoration

Here is a question I have pondered for many years.
How many high point show cars would pass "Total" judging if say, a very large sum of money was to be won?
By total judging I mean from scratch. That means analyzing the metals used in the various parts to verify they are as original, analyzing the paint formulas of the paints used, tearing every thing on the car down to verify
that no Mickey Mouse fixes have been used like punch marking bearing race areas to temporarily tighten them up, using modern parts inside the engine where they don't show, using modern formula rubber floor mats
and so on.
There are thousands of ways to "cheat" but they could all be detected if there was enough money involved.....
Who would be the first to build a "perfect restored car"?
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #2
H. L. Chauvin
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Have no idea; however, as someone humourously stated before, a few points may be taken off because the 2013 air in the tires would not be authentic air from the 1920's/1930's.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Simple Answer !! "NO ONE" And I have two of the "OTHER" ones..
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Doesn't all that criteria take the fun right out of a Model A or is it just me?
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:50 PM   #5
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Maybe Larry Ellison would give up on America's Cup yacht racing and venture into Model A's! OMG, what a horrible thought!!!
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Here is a question I have pondered for many years.
How many high point show cars would pass "Total" judging if say, a very large sum of money was to be won?
By total judging I mean from scratch. That means analyzing the metals used in the various parts to verify they are as original, analyzing the paint formulas of the paints used,
You could offer 2 million dollars and no one would win. If the steel was ever rusted and the rust removed it is now thinner in that spot so now it is not exact, as only one example.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

What I really don't understand is the guy that has a "high point original" car, but it has, say, a Stipe 330 cam, Burlington crank, insert bearings, chevy pistons, Mitchell transmission, Snyder 5.5 head, etc, etc. all because none of this shows, then will dis the guy that has an alternator.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

WELL the dumbest thing i ever heard while judging A.A.C.A. meet..... FORD "NEVER" made the perfect car..... SO he takes some points off no matter what.... When i am not judging this same judge is still around and still getting to judge Model "A"s...Judged my car twice in the past so i say to myself there goes 1 or 2 points...l.o.l. This past year he told a group of us sitting under a tree in Tenn. Grand National that the Model "A' bumpers are stainless steel... I can't make this shit up....FAT JUDGE WITH A STRAW HAT.. LATE 60'S.....L.O.L.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:22 PM   #9
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Peter,
You have a way with words...or is it the Judges? LOL
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:15 PM   #10
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Peter,
You have a way with words...or is it the Judges? LOL
Best laugh I had all day! LOL
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlG View Post
What I really don't understand is the guy that has a "high point original" car, but it has, say, a Stipe 330 cam, Burlington crank, insert bearings, chevy pistons, Mitchell transmission, Snyder 5.5 head, etc, etc. all because none of this shows, then will dis the guy that has an alternator.

my thoughts exactly
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Punching bearing races is Mickey Mouse?
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:14 PM   #13
glenn in camino
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

I'm the only one in my club who gives a #$%^&* about judging. We are a fun, touring club. I drive my show cars on the tours but spend a lot of time cleaning them after.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:55 PM   #14
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlG View Post
What I really don't understand is the guy that has a "high point original" car, but it has, say, a Stipe 330 cam, Burlington crank, insert bearings, chevy pistons, Mitchell transmission, Snyder 5.5 head, etc, etc. all because none of this shows, then will dis the guy that has an alternator.
Those darn alternators sure cause a lot of fighting!

I vote they should be outlawed. LOL
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:17 AM   #15
Ron in Quincy
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Do we really need threads like this ?????? How does this furthur our wonderful hobby ????????

Ron
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras View Post
Maybe Larry Ellison would give up on America's Cup yacht racing and venture into Model A's! OMG, what a horrible thought!!!
Would that make them Foracles?
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in Quincy View Post
Do we really need threads like this ?????? How does this furthur our wonderful hobby ????????

Ron
Ron,

This is kinda mild for posts during "winter blues" when folks have been couped up too long. Silly, yes. Absurd? Well maybe. Nobody has gotten nasty so that is a good thing for mid winter. It typically gets far worse this time of year when the goal needs to be to limit the damage!

Additionally it was stupid on my part to think a bunch of car guys would know anything about an unfulfilled billionaire that buys up companies as well as the island of Lanai for an ego booster!

I have to give you credit as you always seem stable and focused. I think If I lived up where you are I'd be one of those "statistics" where my only outlet would be via computer this time of year.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Would that make them Foracles?
Ok, someone made the connection!
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

I sometimes wonder how high a "brand new" Model A would have scored at MAFCA / MARC judging... ?

And where the deductions ( if any ) would be made ?
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras View Post
Ok, someone made the connection!
I did also Marco.

To answer Brian's question, yes.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Simple Answer !! "NO ONE" And I have two of the "OTHER" ones..
You're a BLESSED man to have two, Fred! Bill W.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:42 AM   #22
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank View Post
I sometimes wonder how high a "brand new" Model A would have scored at MAFCA / MARC judging... ?

And where the deductions ( if any ) would be made ?

I am pretty sure a "brand new" Model-A would score a perfect score providing the person that entered the vehicle in competition understood how the game is played. My reasoning for why it would receive a perfect score is that we know 100% of ALL parts & materials on the vehicle are original. Think about this for a moment or two!! My personal experiences are that so often this is where points are lost. If you entered a vehicle, would it have all original fabric in the upholstery or top? What about tires, belt or hoses? What about wiring? See my point?

With regard to craftsmanship, the correct finishes would be there likely including runs in the paint on the wheels, --which is accepted as noted in the Stds. The same for the rest of the finishes. The reason I said the person entering the vehicle would need to be on his game is because they would need to know, -and understand the Standards as compared to their vehicle in case any variences needed to be submitted. One also should remember that the Standards is not a book that outlines how each Model-A was manufactured originally, --but it is the absolute Standard by which each vehicle is to be evaluated against in competition. This is often confusing to someone who "observes" from the sidelines.

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Old 05-03-2014, 02:27 AM   #23
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Surely the premise of the thread is a nonsense. If an object is totally original it can't be restored! You can only restore something to original when its already lost some of its originality.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

high 300s - low 400s. Fit and finish. Check the paint runs in body panels, fenders, and wheels. Just my take...
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:32 AM   #25
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Sorry ,the above post was to answer Special Coupe Frank's question. Marco you are probably correct about this type of post, but it is still fun to laugh isn't it...
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Old 05-03-2014, 08:18 AM   #26
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There is but one Judge that matters on my Model A --me. I never plan to show her. I grew up with national level show dog breeders and with qualitative contests, it more times than not who you know or how long you've put in your dues rather than a true Judgement... As always, to each owner their own and enjoy.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

I once showed an original 32,000 mile Model A and was docked because of the workmanship. It must have been a Monday morning car.

Theoretically a zero mile Model A should earn 500 points. In reality I believe that one wouldn't score close to 500. I have crawled under and looked inside a good dozen original, low mile Model A's. Every single one of them had something that might make a judge think twice and take an exception to.

mshmodela, you are spot on when you said, 'There is but one Judge that matters on my Model A --me'. With that said I will be putting a car in fine point this summer. I hope that it does well in scoring but my personal satisfaction will not come from a score but rather it will come from the knowledge that I, in a way that I saw fit, saved a unique antique automobile.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

I think some awards should be created for the guys that build cars from parts and put them back on the road .

They are the ones that walk the swap meets and put it all together .

I see so many rolling chassis and body parts for sale , I admire the guys that can make a car .

I also like the fine point cars and the effort to do your best .

What I don't understand is a car that has been restored and put up for sale painted wrong colors .

If you are going to sell it as soon as its finished why not paint it correct ???
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in Quincy View Post
Do we really need threads like this ?????? How does this furthur our wonderful hobby ????????

Ron
Hey Ron,
'how', well IMO it brings a discussion of reality/enlightenment to the 'hobby'...not to mention the smiles from whit ! And, it only happens a very small percentage overall,eh ! Look at the learning side,i.e.- some found out that it is MM is punch as a remedy. We learned that ....if you have an A entered for judging , and a 'fat guy with straw hat..60ish..in doing the judgeing, that possibly nepotism/whatever is involved and you may not be happy Aer. Mostly good thread info, Imo !
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:41 PM   #30
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I have not owned a Model A in 40 years, but I have seen them at the car shows.
From reading the 'A' forums, it looks like there are four top questions that must be answered before entering the judging arena.
1. How many threads are showing on a head stud.
2. Non detergent or detergent oil?
3. Do we add zinc to the oil?
4. Which is better, Seafoam or Marvel Mystery Oil ?
I think this is humorous, don't you?
Yes I have work to do, but it's cold & windy today.

Last edited by 42merc; 05-03-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:27 PM   #31
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: Perfect restoration

No bad for a year old thread.
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