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Old 12-14-2013, 12:04 PM   #21
PC/SR
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Mass Man: The spin on kit has a metal tube that fits into the oil pump outlet at the front of the valve chamber. That tube takes all the oil direct to the filter mount, through the filter, back out and dumps the oil into the front valve chamber resevor, right where the stock outlet put it. Its a neat setup. I put a 90 degree adapter on mine so the filter stands vertically. That way it does not drain down when resting, and is cleaner when changing.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:17 PM   #22
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Question Re: Oil Filter Poser



It's very simple,,look at where the filter assembly is located on the "A"valve cover.It's right at the front where the stock "Oil" system deliver's the oil to the front of the series of built in "Dam's"..


They pick up the oil from the feed pipe & it goes thru the filter & the outlet is dumped in the same area in the first Dam...Hense you end up with a full-flow set-up...



On the "B" engine, Ford improved the A oil system by adding a "Oil Galley" to feed the Main's & Cam brg's...It was still a open system, with the front of the oil gallery feeding the dipper tray & lubing the cam gear on the way




Here's Question ???. What cause's more wear, running without a air filter or oil filter....


Greg out West








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Old 12-14-2013, 08:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Quote:
Originally Posted by mass A man View Post
Thanks for your reply John. What I was also really wondering, what exactly is BEHIND that spin on oil filter on the valve cover? How does pump oil pressure get restricted to go into the filter on that Model A engine? Some kind of plumbing is needed, I'm sure, but where?
The instructions speak of a pipe that is inserted into the pump output that channels all the oil through the filter and then back into the engine.

And now that the thread is back on topic...

What are the advantages / disadvantages of the two add on oil filter system? (Valve cover vs timing cover)
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Thanks guys for answering me about the oil system. My sincere apology to MrWzrd for butting into thread. I never thought of myself of a hijacker, but I sure did just that!
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Here is what it looks like from the outside of the valve cover. The upper brass fitting has a brass tube behind the valve cover that comes straight from the oil galley and leads straight to the inlet holes on the oil filter. Thought this might give you a better visual aid.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:38 AM   #26
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Did some exploring on/in the engine over the weekend and found lubrication diagram for the engine. I am constantly amazed at the simplicity in this car.

The engine has absolutely no pressure fed lubrication points. Everything is either gravity or splash lubed, including the mains. (that one surprised me) The pump simply fills the valve cover cavity with oil and it drains through various holes and pipes to the parts of the engine.

So the oil filter is actually just grabbing the oil pump output and putting it into the valve cover cavity after filtering it.

During the exploration (took the oil pan and lifter cover off) I also found my rear main oil leak. The return tube had a big ol' dent in it right about where the label "Oil return pipe" is on the diagram. (also found that the inside was quite clean.... and the peasants rejoiced!) Took the dent out and the engine isn't pumping oil overboard anymore.

Now I have to find out how the timing gear cover mounted filter get the oil from and to the engine.......

Last edited by MrWzrd; 01-06-2014 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:50 AM   #27
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

The timing cover partial flow filter was originally designed for engines modified for pressure feed. It taps oil from the hole in the side of block. this is right out of the pump.

This is where it gets confusing. There is actually oil pressure from the pump up to the spinning distributor drive gear. This spinning gear throws oil on the valves and the it drains through the oil dams to front.Clear as mud eh.

The timing cover filter can starve the valve chamber of the oil from this gear if it does not have a restrictor in the line. I would not recommend this filter.

John

Last edited by john in illinois; 12-16-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

It took a while to figure it out but it looks like the timing gear cover filter is a bypass filter not a full flow.
John, your comment basically confirms this. And I am very familiar with bypass filters on my diesels.
Just pulling the plug out and putting the line for the filter in can have one of three consequences. 1 - it will divert all or most of the oil through the filter and starve the valve cover cavity. 2 - Minimal or no oil will flow through the filter. (oil will flow through path of least resistance...pump outlet in valve cover cavity.) or 3 - Oil will go to both and the world will be a happy place.

I concur that this would not be the recommended way to add a filter. First is it not doing full filtering and second, it can starve the engine of oil.

The valve cover filter would be the way to go since it does not change where the oil is going, it just runs it through the filter as it comes out of the pump. If the filter were to become clogged the pump is capable of producing the pressure to push the bypass open so oil starvation should not be a concern.

Decision made...gotta pull a few pennies together ....

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 04-20-2021, 06:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWzrd View Post
The instructions speak of a pipe that is inserted into the pump output that channels all the oil through the filter and then back into the engine.

And now that the thread is back on topic...

What are the advantages / disadvantages of the two add on oil filter system? (Valve cover vs timing cover)

And now I know why this tube is in the valve train. I was surprised to see it when I did a valve job recently. This was "Greg out west's" car that I own now after he passed about 6 yrs ago.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:14 PM   #30
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

The standard modern oil filter has a check valve that prevents oil from draining back into the crankcase. It takes a certain amount of pressure to open the check valve. Filters for hydraulic systems do not have the check valve and will flow oil with very little pressure. The hydraulic filters are used on Model T's which only have the flywheel to move oil around (no oil pump) so very little pressure.
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Old 04-20-2021, 10:40 PM   #31
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

I have the full flow valve cover filter from Mike's and it works well. Your oil will stay clean and this will be noticeable. I use Shell Rotella T6 15w40 and it will get changed at 2500 or once a year. You need to look for filters that have a valve that opens at I think 8 to 12 psi however you can also take a drill to the round holed that go along the center of the filter. This effectively removes the valve and removes the resistance with it.

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Old 04-20-2021, 11:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug in NJ View Post
The "A" oil pump, like almost all of them, a constant-displacement design. Normally the pressure is so low only because nothing is resisting the flow of oil. If the oil must be forced through a filter, the pressure will rise. If the filter got all clogged up, the pressure would rise quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON View Post
Model A oil pumps are a very conventional design & flows gallons of oil per minute. They have NO pressure regulator valve, thus, the pressure is low. They have great flow to fill the oil chamber & the baffle plate in the pan, as all the lubricating is done by dip or gravity flow. I read that the pump is CAPABLE of something around 80 PSI. With the proper plumbing, they ARE capable of pushing oil through a FULL FLOW filter.
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I once tested a rebuilt stock A pump with drill and simple test rig it flowed 10 litres per minute with no restriction at 1200 rpm drill speed
The same pump also made 93 psi when closed off when the drill was not able to keep turning
a stronger drill may have made more psi ???

Colin
I have said it before on Ford Barn, as have others, the Model A oil pump is a positive displacement pump and will put out enough pressure to flow thru a filter, even one with a 12 lb. "check valve". The reason in stock form you don't see a higher pressure is there is no back pressure on the system, it is just open ended into the valve chamber.

There is a new video on YouTube stating what is written above in other posts and it is simply not true and there is no need to drill out the valve.

Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 04-21-2021 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 04-21-2021, 12:34 AM   #33
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

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There is a new video on YouTube stating what is written above and it is simply not true and there is no need to drill out the valve.
I saw that video and had a similar reaction.

I think people confuse the anti-drainback valve, which is the silicone membrane that you can see inside the ring of holes around the filter and which people sometimes recommend puncturing, with the bypass valve, which is a little spring way in the back of the filter. The bypass valve is the one that has the PSI rating of 8 or 13 or whatever. It opens only if the pressure inside the filter exceeds that rating. This is useful when the engine is cold in order to get oil to the engine quickly; a Model A oil pump can easily pressurize cold oil above the PSI rating of normal bypass valves. Otherwise the bypass stays closed and oil flows through the filter media, past the ADV, and back into the engine. The ADV has no PSI rating, it opens at any positive pressure at all.

I have no idea where this "check valve" terminology came from or why people got it into their heads to drill holes in perfectly good filters.
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:03 AM   #34
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

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Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead View Post
There is a new video on YouTube stating what is written above and it is simply not true and there is no need to drill out the valve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
I saw that video and had a similar reaction.

I think people confuse the anti-drainback valve, which is the silicone membrane that you can see inside the ring of holes around the filter and which people sometimes recommend puncturing, with the bypass valve, which is a little spring way in the back of the filter.
Unfortunately a lot of people are going to see that video and believe it and some other misinformation.
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Old 04-21-2021, 03:24 PM   #35
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

On most oil filters the bypass opens at 6-12 pounds
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

The bypass valve bypasses the filter if it gets stopped up preventing oil starvation. It reacts to the pressure drop across the filter media not the oil pump delivery pressure.

https://www.pgfilters.com/tech-tips/...ve-oil-filter/
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

It's both, really. Per your link:
The valve is designed to open when the oil filter becomes clogged or when the oil is too thick.

Bottom line, the bypass/relief valve opens in any situation where the filter media restricts the oil flow enough to create that 8 psi pressure differential.

Finding the psi rating of the bypass valve can be kind of a pain. It's published for some filters but not for others.

For example, here is the oilfilterdata.com page for the Wix 51515, which is a common choice to use with the valve cover oil filter setup. You can see the bypass valve on this unit starts to open at 8 psi, and then is fully open at 16 psi.

But other filters are different. The Purolator L30257 opens at 20 psi and the Wix 51355 opens at 33 psi. That might be above some folks' comfort level.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPierce View Post
The bypass valve bypasses the filter if it gets stopped up preventing oil starvation. It reacts to the pressure drop across the filter media not the oil pump delivery pressure.

https://www.pgfilters.com/tech-tips/...ve-oil-filter/
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
It's both, really. Per your link:
The valve is designed to open when the oil filter becomes clogged or when the oil is too thick.

Bottom line, the bypass/relief valve opens in any situation where the filter media restricts the oil flow enough to create that 8 psi pressure differential.

Finding the psi rating of the bypass valve can be kind of a pain. It's published for some filters but not for others.

For example, here is the oilfilterdata.com page for the Wix 51515, which is a common choice to use with the valve cover oil filter setup. You can see the bypass valve on this unit starts to open at 8 psi, and then is fully open at 16 psi.

But other filters are different. The Purolator L30257 opens at 20 psi and the Wix 51355 opens at 33 psi. That might be above some folks' comfort level.
I think we agree on the BYPASS valve. But that has nothing to do with the Model A oil pump having enough pressure to pump oil thru the filter or the anti-drainback "valve" (what some to refer to as a check valve).

I think you would have to be pretty negligent on your oil changes to plug an oil filter.
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Old 04-22-2021, 01:02 PM   #39
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Default Re: Oil Filter Poser

There are real problems with some filters where the filter media is really thick, so there's an upper limit to how fast oil will transit the filter. Mobil1 filters had a bad rep, back when I was on the BITOG forums, for being too restrictive with flow, causing the bypass to open frequently. But that's a whole different issue from what we're discussing here.
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