MMO in the Gas

[Model A Ron]

So who likes to add MMO to your gas? What are your pros and cons

[stickshift]

I'm a firm believer in MMO. It's been around a hundred years, so they must be doing something right. I also pour some in my crankcase about a week before I drain the oil and drive it around to remove any sludge buildup. I buy it by the gallon.

[Gary WA]

Been adding to gas for years! Good top end lubricator. 4 oz/10 gal

[J Franklin]

I use it to keep the valves from sticking, plus it smells great!

[ronn]

what J says- no cons other then having to pay for it!

[Model A Ron]

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Originally Posted by stickshift

I'm a firm believer in MMO. It's been around a hundred years, so they must be doing something right. I also pour some in my crankcase about a week before I drain the oil and drive it around to remove any sludge buildup. I buy it by the gallon.

How much do you add to the oil?

[Werner]

Good morning, Ron,

I have been using MMO regularly in my "Citroen Traction" in the gasoline tank for 8 years and 90,000 km. 50cc to 50 liters.

In my "A" for 3 years and 6000 miles with the vacuum dosing oiler 100cc per 100 miles.

The spark plugs, the piston crowns and combustion chambers apply only a few combustion residue and these are relatively soft.

[Big hammer]

4 oz per 10 gallons of gas for normal treatment, 8 oz per 10 gallons for sticking valve

[WHN]

Bought a Model A with a very noisy engine, very, very, very, noisy valve train.

100 miles later, using MMO and changing to High Detergent Oil 20w-50. Engine now sounded like it had just received a rebuild.

That was 40 years ago. Still quiet, still running great.

Enjoy.

[ronn]

quite the testimonial WHN!

[mcgarrett]

Added to gasoline, it leaves a light film of oil on the inside of the tank and helps fight against potential rust formation. Also helps neutralize the formation of rust in the float bowls of the cast iron Zenith carbs too. Considering the needs of older vehicles like ours I can't think of any real downside to using it, counting all the success stories like those listed above and especially with the lousy gasoline being sold today.

[mcgarrett]

Found this description of MMO on Wikipedia:

Marvel Mystery Oil is an automotive product of the American Marvel Oil Company,[1] founded by Burt Pierce in 1923.[2] It is used as a fuel additive, oil additive, corrosion inhibitor, penetrating oil, and transmission leak stopper and seal relubricator.

It is composed primarily of petroleum distillates, including mineral oil (60–100%), mineral spirits (10–30%), tricresyl phosphate (an antiwear and extreme pressure additive in lubricants, 0.1–1.0%), ortho-dichlorobenzene (a softening and removing agent for carbon-based contamination on metal surfaces, 0.1–1.0%), and para-dichlorobenzene (a precursor used in the production of chemically and thermally resistant polymers, <0.1%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Mystery_Oil

[jeepguy1948]

Mineral oil 60-100%? I wouldn’t want to pay for 100% mineral oil.

[Jim Brierley]

I do. I had a stuck valve on my old tractor, I'm sure it was caused by dry, modern gas. Tractors are a sob to work on, so I don't take chances on it happening again.

[stickshift]

A few weeks ago I submitted a post about a leak out of the rear of my oil pan. I took pictures of the trickle (not drip) on level ground after a drive. I figured I was going to pull the pan and that was also the consensus from other members. I put about 12 ounces of MMO in the crankcase and ran the engine thinking this would help get any junk down to the pan when I drain it. The next day the leak was a very slow drip (every 20 sec.) which I can live with. I decided not to pull the pan until I really need to, especially since I have other irons in the fire right now. The oil has remained in the middle of L and F. I'm not sure what the MMO did, maybe swell the gasket, or did something to the oil...but it stopped the trail of oil on my driveway. To answer MODEL A RON"S question about how much to put in the oil...they say on the bottle up to 20% of the recommended oil volume.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Ok, for those who say it makes noises go away, or lubricates the top-end, coats fuel tanks, or that it can keep valves from sticking, ...please help me wrap my head around these thoughts.

We are talking 1 ounce of oil to 320 ounces of gasoline (4oz to 10 gallons of gasoline)! Think about that for a sec. Based on the dilution ratio of that oil, it seems to be a very minute amount to me. Next, the valve guide is not really in the path of where the air/fuel/oil travels, so does the valve stem really see any benefit? Especially in not causing a valve to stick in an L-head engine?? I would think not. So the final thing is, the upper-end of a Model-A engine is just the cylinder head. Not sure exactly what would benefit there from MM oil.

Again, maybe I am wrong in all of this but I struggle seeing a benefit.

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by Werner

Good morning, Ron,
In my "A" for 3 years and 6000 miles with the vacuum dosing oiler 100cc per 100 miles.

Werner, that is a nice automatic oiler setup. I checked on-line and I only saw old vintage ones for lots of $$$. There were some threads on HAMP about MMO oilers, but I didn't see one like yours. Is it vintage, or did you buy it and install it? This would take the time out of adding the MMO so frequently and answer the question "Did I remember to add the MMO to my tank"?

[Seth Swoboda]

Thats why I put a whole bottle in 10 gallons of gas. If a little is good, a whole lot is better.

Maybe MMO in the gas will help the intake valve?

I think adding it to the oil is where there could be some benefit to clearing up sticking valves. Like using Valve Medic.

[[email protected]]

I have always dosed my gasoline in the Model A gas tank in the hot summer months. It seems like doing some crawling slow July 4th parades the engine gets warmer than normal. The engine seems then harder to restart maybe because of "Vapor Lock". Seems like a little MMO helps prevent the gas from boiling in the sediment bowl all the way down to the carb bowl...

I also like the smell and put a couple of splashes on to attract the women....

[WHN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ok, for those who say it makes noises go away, or lubricates the top-end, coats fuel tanks, or that it can keep valves from sticking, ...please help me wrap my head around these thoughts.

We are talking 1 ounce of oil to 320 ounces of gasoline (4oz to 10 gallons of gasoline)! Think about that for a sec. Based on the dilution ratio of that oil, it seems to be a very minute amount to me. Next, the valve guide is not really in the path of where the air/fuel/oil travels, so does the valve stem really see any benefit? Especially in not causing a valve to stick in an L-head engine?? I would think not. So the final thing is, the upper-end of a Model-A engine is just the cylinder head. Not sure exactly what would benefit there from MM oil.

Again, maybe I am wrong in all of this but I struggle seeing a benefit.

Brent:

Maybe it’s like taking CBD. No one can really tell you how or why it helps, but for some people it does.

MMO seems to have worked for me. In one of my cars there was no other reason that the valves would have freed up and quieted down.

Enjoy.

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Found this description of MMO on Wikipedia:

Marvel Mystery Oil is an automotive product of the American Marvel Oil Company,[1] founded by Burt Pierce in 1923.[2] It is used as a fuel additive, oil additive, corrosion inhibitor, penetrating oil, and transmission leak stopper and seal relubricator.

It is composed primarily of petroleum distillates, including mineral oil (60–100%), mineral spirits (10–30%), tricresyl phosphate (an antiwear and extreme pressure additive in lubricants, 0.1–1.0%), ortho-dichlorobenzene (a softening and removing agent for carbon-based contamination on metal surfaces, 0.1–1.0%), and para-dichlorobenzene (a precursor used in the production of chemically and thermally resistant polymers, <0.1%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Mystery_Oil

MMO is now owned by Turtle Wax since 1999. They never did reveal the formula and kept it a trade secret. When people would ask Burt Pierce "What kind of oil is this"? he would answer "It's a Mystery" I'm sure he didn't want to disclose the formula so it wouldn't be copied. That's why the ingredients are vague on the label. Same as WD-40, they never filed a patent because they would have to disclose the formula.

[Werner]

Brent,


Please don't underestimate the effect of modern lubricating oil. Just a hint of an oil film thickness of 0.0003 mm is enough to lubricate cylinder & piston with the highest loads.
In order to wet the four large cylinder and piston surfaces smear-proof, that is about two small drops of oil distribution. Nevertheless, the additives, which are only introduced in microscopic traces, have a reliable effect.


In addition, the note that water-cooled two-stroke engines in the medium performance range with modern lubricating oil 1:400 is sufficient.


The exhaust valve stems also benefit from a little MMO lubricating oil in the petrol, because when the valves overlap at dead center, a tiny bit of fuel is always lost into the exhaust and this also lubricates the glowing exhaust valve stem.




At Swoboda:


A lot is good - that's not always right. The MMO is an additized white oil that contains detergents. Very little is enough for the additional cleaning and lubricating effect. If you take too much, this has no additional advantage, but the white oil leaves ash in the combustion chamber and smoke.


Stickswift,

please, tell me what is 'HAMP'?


I shot the MMO Oiler on Ebay USA. Unused, in the original dusty box with guarantee certificate.A lot of money for this part with tax fees and flight bill.


I added an oil level glass to the side.


It's a great piece of technical equipment that looks good, fits the car, works well and, above all, makes the child in man laugh.

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by Werner

Brent,

Stickswift,

please, tell me what is 'HAMP'?

Werner, My apologies. I meant to say HAMB. I don't know why I wrote HAMP because the "P" and "B" keys aren't even close to each other. Here is what I saw.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...oiler.1049972/

[Werner]

Stickshift,


thank you for explanation and the interesting file!

[Seth Swoboda]

At Swoboda:


A lot is good - that's not always right. The MMO is an additized white oil that contains detergents. Very little is enough for the additional cleaning and lubricating effect. If you take too much, this has no additional advantage, but the white oil leaves ash in the combustion chamber and smoke.


I was being facetious.

[40 Deluxe]

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ok, for those who say it makes noises go away, or lubricates the top-end, coats fuel tanks, or that it can keep valves from sticking, ...please help me wrap my head around these thoughts.

We are talking 1 ounce of oil to 320 ounces of gasoline (4oz to 10 gallons of gasoline)! Think about that for a sec. Based on the dilution ratio of that oil, it seems to be a very minute amount to me. Next, the valve guide is not really in the path of where the air/fuel/oil travels, so does the valve stem really see any benefit? Especially in not causing a valve to stick in an L-head engine?? I would think not. So the final thing is, the upper-end of a Model-A engine is just the cylinder head. Not sure exactly what would benefit there from MM oil.

Again, maybe I am wrong in all of this but I struggle seeing a benefit.

I think a lot of it is psychological (the placebo effect), just like the hoopla surrounding "essential" oils!
As far as the effect on valves and guides, consider the exhaust valves: No Marvel Mystery Oil ever reaches the exhaust valve or guide because it gets burned up during the combustion cycle and any residue just gets blown out the exhaust!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by WHN

Brent:

Maybe it’s like taking CBD. No one can really tell you how or why it helps, but for some people it does.

MMO seems to have worked for me. In one of my cars there was no other reason that the valves would have freed up and quieted down.

Enjoy.

How can MMO "quiet" the valves?? It is a thin oil so it can't 'cushion' any wear in the guides, nor can it compensate for excessive lash! Model A's don't have hydraulic lifters that may gum up so MMO can't help with that. What's left?

[GPierce]

Marvel Mystery Oil Material Safety Data Sheet.
The secret ingredients. Mix it up in your kitchen while your wife is out shopping.

https://www1.mscdirect.com/MSDS/MSDS...5-20210402.PDF

Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light / Distillates, petroleum, hydrotreated light / Hydrotreated light distillate.
Phosphoric acid, tris(methylphenyl) ester / Phosphoric acid, tritolyl ester / Tricresyl phosphate.
Benzene, 1,2-dichloro- / Benzene, o-dichloro- / ortho- Dichlorobenzene
Benzene, 1,2-dichloro- / Benzene, o-dichloro- / ortho- Dichlorobenzene.
Benzene, 1,4-dichloro- / Benzene, p-dichloro- / para- Dichlorobenzene

It Also contains some oil of wintergreen to give it that distinct oder I’ve been told. Since that is not hazardous it doesn’t show up on the MSDS.

Tricresyl phosphate: (TCP)
In the aviation industry, this compound is used as an anti-wear, extreme pressure additive in lubricants and hydraulic fluids.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...esyl-phosphate

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ok, for those who say it makes noises go away, or lubricates the top-end, coats fuel tanks, or that it can keep valves from sticking, ...please help me wrap my head around these thoughts.

We are talking 1 ounce of oil to 320 ounces of gasoline (4oz to 10 gallons of gasoline)! Think about that for a sec. Based on the dilution ratio of that oil, it seems to be a very minute amount to me. Next, the valve guide is not really in the path of where the air/fuel/oil travels, so does the valve stem really see any benefit? Especially in not causing a valve to stick in an L-head engine?? I would think not. So the final thing is, the upper-end of a Model-A engine is just the cylinder head. Not sure exactly what would benefit there from MM oil.

Again, maybe I am wrong in all of this but I struggle seeing a benefit.

Why do you not like something proven to work so good?

[Jeff/Illinois]

All I know is, I use the stuff and it works!!

Love it!

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

All I know is, I use the stuff and it works!!

Love it!

So many people do. I had a distributor that was frozen with rust....dropped it in some good old MMO for a week and I was able to turn it with a screw driver.....dropped it back in for a few weeks and it spins like a brand new distributor...poped it in a car and it ran just fine...all I can say is its a Mystery and I love it....lol

[Gene F]

When I was much younger man, I worked at a BIG TIME service station that also did towing, and auto repairs. A customer came in and had a lifter ticking. Supply house brought over a can of MMO. Dumped it in the crankcase. The customer was told it works half the time, and it is worth a try. A couple tanks of gas later the customer was in for another fillup. As I was washing the windshield I asked him. He said in a minute when you are done you can hear me start it back up. Ticking all gone...

Chemical analysis all you want, it worked. Lots cheaper than tearing the top end down.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

Why do you not like something proven to work so good?

Who said anything about not liking it. I am only trying to understand how the claims being made are possible. For example, someone thought it may have detergents in it however I read where most modern fuels have additives and detergents in them straight from the pump.

[J Franklin]

Way back in biblical times it was told to the people that would listen that faith could move mountains! Have faith.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Who said anything about not liking it. I am only trying to understand how the claims being made are possible. For example, someone thought it may have detergents in it however I read where most modern fuels have additives and detergents in them straight from the pump.

I understand now.....you do like it but do not understand how it works......no one does it's a mystery lol

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Gene F

When I was much younger man, I worked at a BIG TIME service station that also did towing, and auto repairs. A customer came in and had a lifter ticking. Supply house brought over a can of MMO. Dumped it in the crankcase. The customer was told it works half the time, and it is worth a try. A couple tanks of gas later the customer was in for another fillup. As I was washing the windshield I asked him. He said in a minute when you are done you can hear me start it back up. Ticking all gone...

Chemical analysis all you want, it worked. Lots cheaper than tearing the top end down.

One more real life example of the Mystery in MMO......I have been using it for years and nothing works better in the gas or as a penetrating oil.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

All I know is, I use the stuff and it works!!

Love it!

Amen brother and keep the faith in MMO

[Jeff/Illinois]

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;2220432................. however I read where most modern fuels have additives and detergents in them straight from the pump.[/QUOTE]

Top Tier gasolines do, like Chevron-Mobil-Shell-Phillips/Conoco-BP for example.

That leaves out Pilot or Love's

They skimp on the additives and detergents to save a few pennies to draw you in to buy their gasoline. Steer clear of that stuff............

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Top Tier gasolines do, like Chevron-Mobil-Shell-Phillips/Conoco-BP for example.

That leaves out Pilot or Love's

They skimp on the additives and detergents to save a few pennies to draw you in to buy their gasoline. Steer clear of that stuff............

I think BP should add MMO at the pump.....make it a lot better gas

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Way back in biblical times it was told to the people that would listen that faith could move mountains! Have faith.

Metaphorically, not literally!

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Metaphorically, not literally!

If you see it that way. But now we are off topic so add some MMO and free up things.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

If you see it that way. But now we are off topic so add some MMO and free up things.

Remember when gas had a red tint? I bet they were adding MMO at the pump years back.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Who said anything about not liking it. I am only trying to understand how the claims being made are possible. For example, someone thought it may have detergents in it however I read where most modern fuels have additives and detergents in them straight from the pump.

Brent, I would agree, it don't seem to be enough to make a difference! However, My aircraft engine in my Cessna 172 was a troublesome cat , an O320 H2AD, (Opposed 320 CU.in. H2AD) and the FAA had issued a A.D. (Aviation ? Directive) to add 5 or 6 ounces of some elixir to the six quarts of oil at each oil change. So stuff in small quantities can make a difference! I complied and never had a problem. By the way, If I recall properly paradicholorobenzine in crystalline form is what mothballs are made of. A hard smell to overcome! Put me down as a believer in MMO.
Terry

[GPierce]

The elixir was was TCP, Tricresyl phosphate, of which there is a small amount in MMO.

[David in San Antonio]

I stopped using placebos when extra-strength placebos became available. Much, much better.

[Big hammer]

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Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Brent, I would agree, it don't seem to be enough to make a difference! However, My aircraft engine in my Cessna 172 was a troublesome cat , an O320 H2AD, (Opposed 320 CU.in. H2AD) and the FAA had issued a A.D. (Aviation ? Directive) to add 5 or 6 ounces of some elixir to the six quarts of oil at each oil change. So stuff in small quantities can make a difference! I complied and never had a problem. By the way, If I recall properly paradicholorobenzine in crystalline form is what mothballs are made of. A hard smell to overcome! Put me down as a believer in MMO.
Terry

A.D. =. Airworthiness Directive ! Required maintenance per FAA

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

A.D. =. Airworthiness Directive ! Required maintenance per FAA

Thanks for updating my memory. In the last few years, it's been slipping a little!
Terry

[Bob-A]

In reference to [email protected]. I also use MMO in my gas due to vapor locking. I had a '29 Chevy that also use to vapor lock even with a mechanical fuel pump. Once I added MMO no more vapor lock. It can get very hot here in Florida.


Bob-A


Skirts are for women and not car fenders!

[Gufshoz]

I have always put 4 oz of MMO per 10 gal of gas when I fill up. I really don't know if I'm getting a benefit, but I don't really care and I'm not going to stop. It is part of my ritual of fueling my car and adds to the mystique of owning/driving an antique car. I love how people at the neighboring pumps watch me as I carefully measure the bright red liquid, pour into the cowl tank opening and then clean every drop from my measuring cup and the neck of the gallon jug of MMO. I stow the cup, jug and towels in a special secured spot in my trunk (my '30 coupe has had the rumble seat replaced with a trunk). When people ask me what I'm doing and why, I tell them that it is a "mystery"; possibly connected with Voodoo, and if I reveal the secret I may lose my juju.
PS: Marine fuel without ethanol is readily available in my area, so that's what I use. If I'm cruising, I just use any regular gas. I also throw salt over my left shoulder if I should spill some. Some things just won't hurt, but you never know. Keep smiling.

[Stew Masche]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Thanks for updating my memory. In the last few years, it's been slipping a little!
Terry

Maybe some MMO taken in small quantities will help with the slipping ?

[Werner]

Originally Posted by Gufshoz

I have always put 4 oz of MMO per 10 gal of gas when I fill up. I really don't know if I'm getting a benefit, but I don't really care and I'm not going to stop. It is part of my ritual of fueling my car and adds to the mystique of owning/driving an antique car. I love how people at the neighboring pumps watch me as I carefully measure the bright red liquid, pour into the cowl tank opening and then clean every drop from my measuring cup and the neck of the gallon jug of MMO. I stow the cup, jug and towels in a special secured spot in my trunk (my '30 coupe has had the rumble seat replaced with a trunk). When people ask me what I'm doing and why, I tell them that it is a "mystery"; possibly connected with Voodoo, and if I reveal the secret I may lose my juju.
PS: Marine fuel without ethanol is readily available in my area, so that's what I use. If I'm cruising, I just use any regular gas. I also throw salt over my left shoulder if I should spill some. Some things just won't hurt, but you never know. Keep smiling.

Very, very well written! I like that sort of mental life, it's rituals that we celebrate on our iron cars.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Gufshoz

I have always put 4 oz of MMO per 10 gal of gas when I fill up. I really don't know if I'm getting a benefit, but I don't really care and I'm not going to stop. It is part of my ritual of fueling my car and adds to the mystique of owning/driving an antique car. I love how people at the neighboring pumps watch me as I carefully measure the bright red liquid, pour into the cowl tank opening and then clean every drop from my measuring cup and the neck of the gallon jug of MMO. I stow the cup, jug and towels in a special secured spot in my trunk (my '30 coupe has had the rumble seat replaced with a trunk). When people ask me what I'm doing and why, I tell them that it is a "mystery"; possibly connected with Voodoo, and if I reveal the secret I may lose my juju.
PS: Marine fuel without ethanol is readily available in my area, so that's what I use. If I'm cruising, I just use any regular gas. I also throw salt over my left shoulder if I should spill some. Some things just won't hurt, but you never know. Keep smiling.

Fun fact, Burt Pierce, founder of Marvel Carburetor Company, formulated Marvel Mystery Oil to keep his carburetor jets clean.

[Big hammer]

Hey Y-Blockhead, could you please increase your letter size by at least 50%, it would help with old tired eyes reading your posts. I do like the green letters! :-)

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

Hey Y-Blockhead, could you please increase your letter size by at least 50%, it would help with old tired eyes reading your posts. I do like the green letters! :-)

Sure, anything for you...

[1946]

Terry, Moth balls are Naphthalene, C10-H8, a hydro carbon, produced from coal tar which crystalises into a white substance then used to evacuate pesky cloth munching insects in your wardrobe/closet. It was at one time called white tar. Sorry for the chemistry lesson, it still smells nice, reminds me of a well kept bedroom and best Sunday suite.
I make a type of MMO using some info gleaned from MSDS (material safety data sheet). My mix is Six parts marine two stroke outboard motor oil, added to Four parts auto transmission fluid, to which add a small amount of Salacylic Acid, (oil of winter green) add the mixture in the same portions as MMO.

Cheers Rob GIMG_6456.jpg

IMG_6468.jpg

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by 1946

Terry, Moth balls are Naphthalene, C10-H8, a hydro carbon, produced from coal tar which crystalises into a white substance then used to evacuate pesky cloth munching insects in your wardrobe/closet. It was at one time called white tar. Sorry for the chemistry lesson, it still smells nice, reminds me of a well kept bedroom and best Sunday suite.
I make a type of MMO using some info gleaned from MSDS (material safety data sheet). My mix is Six parts marine two stroke outboard motor oil, added to Four parts auto transmission fluid, to which add a small amount of Salacylic Acid, (oil of winter green) add the mixture in the same portions as MMO.

Cheers Rob GAttachment 514951

Attachment 514952

Outboard oil may cause carbon buildup if you use too much.....I would stick with good old MMO.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by 1946

Terry, Moth balls are Naphthalene, C10-H8, a hydro carbon, produced from coal tar which crystalises into a white substance then used to evacuate pesky cloth munching insects in your wardrobe/closet. It was at one time called white tar. Sorry for the chemistry lesson, it still smells nice, reminds me of a well kept bedroom and best Sunday suite.
I make a type of MMO using some info gleaned from MSDS (material safety data sheet). My mix is Six parts marine two stroke outboard motor oil, added to Four parts auto transmission fluid, to which add a small amount of Salacylic Acid, (oil of winter green) add the mixture in the same portions as MMO.

Cheers Rob GAttachment 514951

Attachment 514952

Rob. I checked it out. as I recalled it, moth balls, in the 1940s were made using Paradiclorobenzene as I remembered . You can still get them under the "ENOZ" name. However, you are correct about the Napthalene being used today.
Terry

[Werner]

Originally Posted by 1946

My mix is Six parts marine two stroke outboard motor oil, added to Four parts auto transmission fluid ...

ATF oil is not suitable for engine combustion engines.

It is a low-viscosity gear oil with a increase coefficient of friction (!) and high-pressure additives. These tend to form particularly strong tar and sulfate ash forms from this. In the long term, this leads to glass-hard deposits on the piston crowns and the valve stems on the exhaust valve.
(Motor oils are more refined, contains other additive packages designed for almost deposit-free combustion, as well as cleaning additives and detergents.)

[1946]

Thank you Ron and Werner. It looks like I will have to re think the contents of my home made MMO. I do have some genuine MMO. I had to order it from an Aviation supply company, then it is shipped to the ordering co, and at A$80.00 per container it is not cheap. I bought it on the recomendation of my aircraft mechanic to use un my Auster aircraft.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by 1946

at A$80.00 per container it is not cheap. I bought it on the recomendation of my aircraft mechanic to use un my Auster aircraft.

Since it is aircraft, it is good to rethink. I think instead of paying ransom I would find a recomended (by the arcraft suppliers), top oil and then add the wintergreen oil. Now it will work and still smell great! I don't know what brands they sell where you're at, maybe seafoam, maybe some other tried and true product that won't bring any lawsuits if the unfortunate should happen.

[Model A Ron]

I have not used Seafoam in my Model A but I have only heard good things about it.

[Dino's A]

I use it in the gas to attempt to put some kind of layer of oil
to coat the tank. The old timers in my club told me it was good
stuff, and I trust them. I also like the smell of it.

[GPierce]

MMO use is wide spread in the antique and classic aircraft community to prevent valve sticking caused by the high lead content in todays 100 octane leaded fuel. Known as AVGAS.
The low or no lead 80 octane is no longer available.
MMO is available from aviation supply houses.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...loilgallon.php
Be sure to scroll down and read the OVERVIEW

[Werner]

Hey,

please tell me, what's "wintergreen oil"?

Thanks in advance,
Werner


An 1946: Very nice old rare airplane!

[jack backer]

I’m curious to the proven effects. Sure, if you put oil in the fuel it will provide “top end lubrication” but why do you need top end lubrication? We are discussing a simple low compression engine with wide piston rings.. upper cylinder lubrication occurs naturally with it.. oil leakage by the rings is unstoppable.extreme upper cylinder/ combustion chamber temperature which strips this lubrication, and MMO lubrication is mainly caused by the manual spark control, engine timing is almost never correct, especially accelerating. If it makes you feel good do it, petroleum distillates with detergent is handy around the shop.

[Jemelton#]

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Along with using MMO in my 29 Tudor I find that it makes a good air tool oil!

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by jack backer

I’m curious to the proven effects. Sure, if you put oil in the fuel it will provide “top end lubrication” but why do you need top end lubrication?

Top end lubrication usually refers to in-head valves and valvetrain. Ford was one of the last companies to switch over from flatheads. Chevrolet had their in-head valve six cylinder in 1929. Rambler still made flatheads 'till 1965.

[jack backer]

Originally Posted by stickshift

Top end lubrication usually refers to in-head valves and valvetrain. Ford was one of the last companies to switch over from flatheads. Chevrolet had their in-head valve six cylinder in 1929. Rambler still made flatheads 'till 1965.

I’m referring to upper cylinder lubrication, a slight amount of mmo in the fuel or a slight amount of oil in the combustion chamber, extending valve seat life, or so they say.. didn’t mean to mislead..in my opinion you could use ATF, it’s a fine distillate with a solvent/ detergent additive..or don’t use anything..

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by Werner

Hey,

please tell me, what's "wintergreen oil"?

Thanks in advance,
Werner


An 1946: Very nice old rare airplane!

Werner, There is a small Plant with little white berries (edible) that grows in our woods here. The name of this plant is Wintergreen and it has a strong, yet pleasant taste and smell. It's a sort of Menthol. It is the smell that they've synthesized and are using to cover the smell of the Paradiclorobenzene. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps it does contribute more than a cover smell to the whole concoction.
Terry

[SAJ]

Werner, wintergreen oil contains methyl salicylate. An ester of salicylic acid and methanol. It is a good wetting and creeping agent on metals, smells nice and is useful as an embrocation on the human body to relieve pain in tired muscles. It is related to aspirin (acetyl salicylic acid) in the way it works for muscular pain relief.
It also works in the vapor phase to soften hard rubber in articles like go-kart tyres, to give better grip for racing. Possibly made illegal now in the go kart racing fraternity
Is that too much information?
SAJ in NZ

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by jack backer

I’m curious to the proven effects. Sure, if you put oil in the fuel it will provide “top end lubrication” but why do you need top end lubrication? We are discussing a simple low compression engine with wide piston rings.. upper cylinder lubrication occurs naturally with it.. oil leakage by the rings is unstoppable.

I've been following along and this has been my thoughts as well. Most of the time I spend trying to keep oil OUT of the combination chamber

[duke36]

Some use ZDDP zinc additive for flat tappet motors since zinc is banned from fuels due to catalytic convertor issues with zinc. If there is test data for all these additives, it would be good to see them.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by duke36

If there is test data for all these additives, it would be good to see them.

With the advances in AI could you believe test data? At least MMO admits there is mystery!

[[email protected]]

My Grandfather and Father built a corner Gulf gas station before WWII in Boone County, IL. My Father shared stories of how a lot of local car owners would bring their cars in to be "de-carbonized" .. They would tell the owner to give them a day to do the work of taking the head (s) off. Then they would coat the piston tops and the heads with MMO and let it sit overnight. The next morning they would come in and use shop rags to wipe the pistons and heads completely clean . Easy Peezey.... No brass wire brusheswere needed.

[jack backer]

A teaspoon of un cooked rice sprinkled it no the carb at 1200 rpm decarbonizes in a snap

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by jack backer

A teaspoon of un cooked rice sprinkled it no the carb at 1200 rpm decarbonizes in a snap

I heard the same thing about Bon Ami, not sure I would want to try it though.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by stickshift

I heard the same thing about Bon Ami, not sure I would want to try it though.

Bon Ami to settle in new rings (it is abrasive). Rice would ricochet around the combustion chamber and remove carbon like sand blasting it.
Another way to remove carbon is to spray water in the carburettor intake till the motor stats to miss. Then stop till it runs smooth again. Then, spray again only more till the engine stops. Leave it overnight and when it is run next morning, the carbon will vanish. This works by dampening the carbon and allowing the water to penetrate it before starting the motor. The sudden, extreme heat of combustion causes the water to explosively turn to steam, blowing the carbon off the chamber walls and out the exhaust. Yet another way is remove he head and physically do it but that is hard work.

[GPierce]

A newly rebuilt engine running in as test cell with high crankcase pressure caused by blow-by from rings not seated were cured by a handful of bon-ami thrown into the intake. You could the crankcase pressure drop immediately.

I had an Opel Kadet leaking water into one cylinder while parked. It ran fine. I pulled the head and found exactly what Synchro909 explained; a perfectly cleaned head, valves and piston.

[stickshift]

This makes sense with the water. I remember in the early to mid-seventies when the oil embargo caused gas prices to go up to 50 cents a gallon. People were hooking up water injection to their engines so they could run cheaper gas. It prevented detonation and improved mileage. I guess kept the cylinders clean too. I don't know why people stopped doing this. I remember seeing the kits in Warshawsky and JC Whitney catalogs.

[jack backer]

If you really want to clean it up instead of using water in the vapor draw system use ethanol.. did that on a 400M ford V8.. turned the tail pipe white.. noticeable increase in performance.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by duke36

Some use ZDDP zinc additive for flat tappet motors since zinc is banned from fuels due to catalytic convertor issues with zinc. If there is test data for all these additives, it would be good to see them.

I thought ZDDP was added to the oil. Lead was banned from fuels. I don't believe zinc was ever added to gasoline.

[Model A Ron]

I was watching a video that Paul Shinn had about cleaning a gas tank and he said a little MMO in the gas helps prevent rust.....sounds logical to me

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I was watching a video that Paul Shinn had about cleaning a gas tank and he said a little MMO in the gas helps prevent rust.....sounds logical to me

I see plenty of gas tanks that come to me for restoration after folks have tried all of these remedies that seem to counter that logic. One being MMO! I've even had one come in where they read/watched/whatever somewhere how some authority recommended using POR15 on the inside of the gas tank to cure the rust problem.

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by WHN

Brent:

Maybe it’s like taking CBD. No one can really tell you how or why it helps, but for some people it does.

MMO seems to have worked for me. In one of my cars there was no other reason that the valves would have freed up and quieted down.

Enjoy.

If you changed the oil and are driving it more, that could explain what happened to your car. Without performing controlled tests, there is no way to document whether it works or not. I use it too, so I am not opposed to it. Anecdotal stories like those here are nice, but they are not rigorous tests.

[Model A Ron]

I know some love MMO and some do not but regardless I think keeping the gas tank full helps assuming your tank is in good shape......and i do not see how MMO hurts.

[jack backer]

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Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I was watching a video that Paul Shinn had about cleaning a gas tank and he said a little MMO in the gas helps prevent rust.....sounds logical to me

The ability to create entertaining videos doesn’t not imply knowledge, other than what it takes to produce them.

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by jack backer

The ability to create entertaining videos doesn’t not imply knowledge, other than what it takes to produce them.

With all due respect, I think personal experience can be interpreted as "knowledge". It seems like most of the posts on the several pages of this subject are mostly based on personal experience, whether positive or negative. A product that has been around a hundred years certainly has a strong and loyal customer base to survive, spanning several generations. Not too many products can boast about that. Whether it's a great product, or snake oil...people still buy it because they think it works.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

If you changed the oil and are driving it more, that could explain what happened to your car. Without performing controlled tests, there is no way to document whether it works or not. I use it too, so I am not opposed to it. Anecdotal stories like those here are nice, but they are not rigorous tests.

I owned the car that I am referring to for 43 years. The first 20 years I did not use MMO or HD oil. Switched over, and within 100 miles most of the valve noise went away. Within 500 miles it was gone. Sold the car last year, no valve noise.

A few years ago I purchased a car that had been sitting for a number of years. When we started it up it sounded like the valves were going to explode. Changed the oil to 20W-50 HD and put MMO in gas. After about 200 miles noise was almost gone.

I don’t need rigorous tests. I like first hand results. We’re not going to the Moon here.

Enjoy.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by WHN

We’re not going to the Moon here.

Bang, Right to the moon Alice... https://youtu.be/98qw86DsdZ0

[stickshift]

A funny story... I know this MMO subject has been beat to death, but it reminds me of someone I met many years ago. I was in a pizza parlor and when I went to pay the man at the register, I slowly reached out my arm and said my elbow has tendinitis (tennis elbow). The man at the register said "Oh you should rub some WD-40 on it" I said "What"? He said "Yes, I use it all the time for my arthritis". I said "You actually put it on your skin"? He swore it works. I know the makers of WD-40 would be the first to disclaim topical use, and there are no clinical studies to support this, but this guy would go to his grave claiming it worked for him...and who am I to say he's wrong?

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by stickshift

A funny story... I know this MMO subject has been beat to death, but it reminds me of someone I met many years ago. I was in a pizza parlor and when I went to pay the man at the register, I slowly reached out my arm and said my elbow has tendinitis (tennis elbow). The man at the register said "Oh you should rub some WD-40 on it" I said "What"? He said "Yes, I use it all the time for my arthritis". I said "You actually put it on your skin"? He swore it works. I know the makers of WD-40 would be the first to disclaim topical use, and there are no clinical studies to support this, but this guy would go to his grave claiming it worked for him...and who am I to say he's wrong?

Well, did you try it? Maybe it does work!

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Well, did you try it? Maybe it does work!

The smell of MMO is great.....maybe he should try it lol

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

The smell of MMO is great.....maybe he should try it lol

Upper cylinder lubricant as we used to call it smelt like almonds. Does MMO smell like that? I've never seen it here but I looked it up. A one US gallon (3.78 litres) pack cost $100. I guess I'm not in a hurry to find out how it smells.

[Model A Ron]

MMO works so good it freed up a stuck distributer for me. I bet if you dumped some in an empty tank and let it sit in different positions it would remove rust.

[jack backer]

Yup, rub some on your joints, it’s good for arthritis, rheumatism, lumbago and melancholy..

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by WHN

I owned the car that I am referring to for 43 years. The first 20 years I did not use MMO or HD oil. Switched over, and within 100 miles most of the valve noise went away. Within 500 miles it was gone. Sold the car last year, no valve noise.

A few years ago I purchased a car that had been sitting for a number of years. When we started it up it sounded like the valves were going to explode. Changed the oil to 20W-50 HD and put MMO in gas. After about 200 miles noise was almost gone.

I don’t need rigorous tests. I like first hand results. We’re not going to the Moon here.

Enjoy.

I am not sure if we are all playing a game of oneupsmanship on 'To Tell a Story' or what, but I'm gonna ask this as if we are being serious in our storytelling.

Therefore, EXACTLY WHAT did the Marvel Mystery Oil do to "exploding valves" (-whatever that sounds like?? ) to make the exploding sound go away? Since the Model-A engine uses a mechanical tappet, it generally is excessive lash clearances that causes a valve noise. From my vantage point, it is more likely that a higher viscosity oil would cushion the impact of the tappet hitting the valve stem, ...yet I would think that MMO being a thinner viscosity, it would not help in abating that valve noise. If that was not it, then what other scenario would cause the valves to explode??

[WHN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I am not sure if we are all playing a game of oneupsmanship on 'To Tell a Story' or what, but I'm gonna ask this as if we are being serious in our storytelling.

Therefore, EXACTLY WHAT did the Marvel Mystery Oil do to "exploding valves" (-whatever that sounds like?? ) to make the exploding sound go away? Since the Model-A engine uses a mechanical tappet, it generally is excessive lash clearances that causes a valve noise. From my vantage point, it is more likely that a higher viscosity oil would cushion the impact of the tappet hitting the valve stem, ...yet I would think that MMO being a thinner viscosity, it would not help in abating that valve noise. If that was not it, then what other scenario would cause the valves to explode??

I was just using the word exploding to over emphasize the clatter that the valve train was making.

There were no explosions going on with the exception of normal cylinder firing.

My point is that there very well could be a correlation in using MMO along with HD oil to help free up your valve train. Slow, sticking, worn.

Say whatever you like! I really think that it has worked for me. The proof is in the pudding. Valve noise was reduced significantly. That’s all I cared about.

Enjoy.

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

MMO works so good it freed up a stuck distributer for me. I bet if you dumped some in an empty tank and let it sit in different positions it would remove rust.

Im not going to go back through 5 pages of posts to find his name, but I’m with the guy in a previous post who said that after he puts it in his gas tank, he splashes some on like cologne.

David Serrano

[stickshift]

Originally Posted by California Travieso

Im not going to go back through 5 pages of posts to find his name, but I’m with the guy in a previous post who said that after he puts it in his gas tank, he splashes some on like cologne.

David Serrano

I remember that one! He said it attracts women. (LOL) I'm thinking mosquitos too! Seriously...how long is this post going to last? I know I'm not helping to end it.

[jack backer]

When I was a kid “Guy Lumbago and his Orchestra” played at Jones Beach… he was a spokesman for Marvel, why his last name alone sold gallons..

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I am not sure if we are all playing a game of oneupsmanship on 'To Tell a Story' or what, but I'm gonna ask this as if we are being serious in our storytelling.

Therefore, EXACTLY WHAT did the Marvel Mystery Oil do to "exploding valves" (-whatever that sounds like?? ) to make the exploding sound go away? Since the Model-A engine uses a mechanical tappet, it generally is excessive lash clearances that causes a valve noise. From my vantage point, it is more likely that a higher viscosity oil would cushion the impact of the tappet hitting the valve stem, ...yet I would think that MMO being a thinner viscosity, it would not help in abating that valve noise. If that was not it, then what other scenario would cause the valves to explode??

Brent I am not sure about exploding valves but MMO works so good that it could replace the need for an engine rebuild in some cases lol

[David in San Antonio]

Guy Lumbago? Ha! Guy Lombardo was an avid hydroplane racer in addition to his main gig leading the Royal Canadians dance band and playing Auld Lang Syne on radio, then television, on New Year’s Eve. He also ran over my paternal grandfather and maternal grandmother with his Jaguar in the wee hours of the morning on a rainy December 9, 1951 in Glendale, NY. My grandfather did not survive. I’m not making this up.
Whew. Now I’ve done my part in extending this forum post.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by David in San Antonio

Guy Lumbago? Ha! Guy Lombardo was an avid hydroplane racer in addition to his main gig leading the Royal Canadians dance band and playing Auld Lang Syne on radio, then television, on New Year’s Eve. He also ran over my paternal grandfather and maternal grandmother with his Jaguar in the wee hours of the morning on a rainy December 9, 1951 in Glendale, NY. My grandfather did not survive. I’m not making this up.
Whew. Now I’ve done my part in extending this forum post.

That is one very interesting story.

[Sunny the Model A]

I use MMO between 4-6 oz per tank in my daily driver A pickup and I do it for four reasons. 1 it helps prevent vapor lock, 2 it keeps the carburetor clean while its running, 3 it coats the tank and prevents rust in the first place. 4 it slows down the combustion slightly allowing you to get a bit more economy out of it. I did a 165 mile trip running with 4 oz of marvel mystery oil. 45-50 mph on full spark advance, gav fully shut and "cruise control" on. I used 7.9 gallons for the whole trip. that's 20.7 mpg. I probably could have done far better if I had stayed at 40-45 and not idled at stops. but all in all, I am a believer in MMO, my question to critics of the stuff, what's the harm? if you don't like it you don't have to use it. Why not at least try a controlled experiment with and without it and see if it works like it says it does?

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Sunny the Model A

I use MMO between 4-6 oz per tank in my daily driver A pickup and I do it for four reasons. 1 it helps prevent vapor lock, 2 it keeps the carburetor clean while its running, 3 it coats the tank and prevents rust in the first place. 4 it slows down the combustion slightly allowing you to get a bit more economy out of it. I did a 165 mile trip running with 4 oz of marvel mystery oil. 45-50 mph on full spark advance, gav fully shut and "cruise control" on. I used 7.9 gallons for the whole trip. that's 20.7 mpg. I probably could have done far better if I had stayed at 40-45 and not idled at stops. but all in all, I am a believer in MMO, my question to critics of the stuff, what's the harm? if you don't like it you don't have to use it. Why not at least try a controlled experiment with and without it and see if it works like it says it does?

Very well said and thank you for sharing.

[JimG1127]

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Has anyone tried MMO in their modern car? Any benefit?
It does smell great. I want to keep an open bottle in my house.

[Herb Concord Ca]

X2 on Sunny's views on MMO especially point #1. Point 2 is good for cast iron Zenith carbs, will prevent rust from forming.

[jack backer]

How does it prevent vapor lock? How does it slow down combustion?

[TomInCologne]

Originally Posted by jack backer

How does it prevent vapor lock? How does it slow down combustion?

That's something that can be explained by physics: by putting higher hydrocarbons into the mix which have a higher boiling point and lower flame speed. Is the lower flame speed wanted? I wouldn't think so...


A lot of the other claims like 'cleaning' and 'rust prevention'? well...

[WHN]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Has anyone tried MMO in their modern car? Any benefit?
It does smell great. I want to keep an open bottle in my house.

We tried it in my wife’s Land Rover. The check engine light came on after a few miles. Dealer said there was a fuel problem code. They didn’t recommend using MMO and reset computer. After a few miles the Light came on again. After a couple of gas fill up’s, check engine light stopped coming on.

I guess the computer in our Model A’s isn’t as sensitive as the cars today.

Enjoy.

[Werner]

The addition of MMO has many implications.



The highly distilled white oil used as the basis ensures passivation of the surfaces and also a certain amount of lubrication in the entire area from the tank to the intake valve.


The detergents contained in it also ensure that old deposits are gradually removed and platelet-shaped soot particles cannot form crystals because they flake off beforehand.


The combustion process itself is a little bit delayed, since the stoichiometric ratio due to the oil admixture leads to a somewhat delayed flame speed of the ignition mixture, to the detriment of the oxygen atoms. (This is rather leisurely anyway at 25 m per second.)


That's why we old masters knew the trick of pouring some two-stroke oil into the tank in the event of knocking or knocking combustion.

[ronn]

I usee MMO in all of my cars and riding tractor etc.


My cars are basic and not fancy Land Rovers!

[Sunny the Model A]

X2 with Werner. I have done the same thing with highly filtered used motor oil. I add it in at 4 oz per tank if mmo isn't available. it works the same way, and it is a good use of your old oil. All you need is a 5-micron filter sock and a bit of Patience. I dilute the oil with some gas that i use to clean parts and so on. it gets mixed up and the contaminants removed with the filter. once I do that it comes out clean and I run it like marvel. no fear of smoke and it works well.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Sunny the Model A

X2 with Werner. I have done the same thing with highly filtered used motor oil. I add it in at 4 oz per tank if mmo isn't available. it works the same way, and it is a good use of your old oil. All you need is a 5-micron filter sock and a bit of Patience. I dilute the oil with some gas that i use to clean parts and so on. it gets mixed up and the contaminants removed with the filter. once I do that it comes out clean and I run it like marvel. no fear of smoke and it works well.

As described, gasoline does the same. They’re both petroleum products. No one here has offered any real testing to say this works or doesn’t. No one here really has the pockets that are deep enough to actually prove or disprove any benefits.

Cars, including A’s have run fine without this stuff, just like they do without lead in the gas, zinc additives in the oil and fancy velocity stacks in the carbs.

Adding 4oz to 10 gallons doesn’t do anything either way, it’s so diluted at that point.

The diehard users should go a full season without it and report the difference.

[Model A Ron]

If you do not want to use MMM that is your choice. It works for me and many others so I have faith in the product.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Post 115 X2.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Werner

The addition of MMO has many implications.



The highly distilled white oil used as the basis ensures passivation of the surfaces and also a certain amount of lubrication in the entire area from the tank to the intake valve.


The detergents contained in it also ensure that old deposits are gradually removed and platelet-shaped soot particles cannot form crystals because they flake off beforehand.


The combustion process itself is a little bit delayed, since the stoichiometric ratio due to the oil admixture leads to a somewhat delayed flame speed of the ignition mixture, to the detriment of the oxygen atoms. (This is rather leisurely anyway at 25 m per second.)


That's why we old masters knew the trick of pouring some two-stroke oil into the tank in the event of knocking or knocking combustion.

Some really good points….thanks for sharing

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by Hitman

As described, gasoline does the same. They’re both petroleum products. No one here has offered any real testing to say this works or doesn’t. No one here really has the pockets that are deep enough to actually prove or disprove any benefits.

Cars, including A’s have run fine without this stuff, just like they do without lead in the gas, zinc additives in the oil and fancy velocity stacks in the carbs.

Adding 4oz to 10 gallons doesn’t do anything either way, it’s so diluted at that point.

The diehard users should go a full season without it and report the difference.

Well I went a few tanks without MMO as I was out and the car just seems to not run as good. I dumped in 5 ounces and filled her to the top and when to a cruse in. On the way home I noticed how the car just seemed to run better. Not sure if MMO increases octane but it sure does something to the gas and with the benefit of preventing rust I see no reason not to usee it but thats just my opinion.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Adding 4oz to 10 gallons doesn’t do anything either way, it’s so diluted at that point.

The diehard users should go a full season without it and report the difference.

Maybe the diehard naysayers should also try MMO for a season and also report. It could be formatted as a survey this winter for laughs and insight.

[Model A Ron]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Maybe the diehard naysayers should also try MMO for a season and also report. It could be formatted as a survey this winter for laughs and insight.

I disagree that That adding MMO does not help.....Would love to see a survey

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Model A Ron

I disagree that That adding MMO does not help.....Would love to see a survey

Ron, surveys mean nothing when substantiated fact-checking is not involved.

You are an engineer that uses factual data to overcome theories and beliefs. Likewise my father (-who held a masters degree in Chemical Engineering) spent 30 years in the laboratory of Atlantic Richfield and later BP. Dad held several patents for both companies, and would often analyze "snake oils" to determine trace ingredients and compare to their own products. He was not alone as other oil companies had engineers doing the same thing analyzing/comparing ARCO's Graphite Motor Oil and other products to their own, so this practice is nothing new. My dad and I had this conversations more than a couple of times during his lifetime about MMO, STP, Lucas Oil Products, et/al, ...and based on their lab research there was no benefit to be gained with their usage in modern oils.

To further this, Marvel Mystery Oil was invented prior to our Model-As ever even been designed, -or for that matter, before they were even thought of! Think about that and how much Ford has advanced and improved their product over the years. Why doesn't this same mindset apply to MMO? In all fairness, the MMO product likely had some sort of small benefit when used with sour crude paraffin oils of the Model-A era. Refining techniques have become much more advanced in the last 90-100 years, additives manufactured and used in modern oils has become much more advanced, and even the selections available today vs. some 50 years ago are vastly improved. So contrary to what some might still believe, any special benefit that MMO might have been to Motor Oils -or even Gasolines manufactured some 50+ years ago has most-assuredly been overtaken by modern refiners and blenders who have tailored their product(s) to meet, -or exceed any needs for using MMO in today's gasolines or motor oils. Taking an unscientific and/or opinionated survey to potentially validate something is crazy IMHO as it only spreads more confusion and misinformation.

[Aretino]

I add the 4oz per 10 gallons of gas. My car always seems to run better with MMO.

[Dino's A]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ron, surveys mean nothing when substantiated fact-checking is not involved.

You are an engineer that uses factual data to overcome theories and beliefs. Likewise my father (-who held a masters degree in Chemical Engineering) spent 30 years in the laboratory of Atlantic Richfield and later BP. Dad held several patents for both companies, and would often analyze "snake oils" to determine trace ingredients and compare to their own products. He was not alone as other oil companies had engineers doing the same thing analyzing/comparing ARCO's Graphite Motor Oil and other products to their own, so this practice is nothing new. My dad and I had this conversations more than a couple of times during his lifetime about MMO, STP, Lucas Oil Products, et/al, ...and based on their lab research there was no benefit to be gained with their usage in modern oils.

To further this, Marvel Mystery Oil was invented prior to our Model-As ever even been designed, -or for that matter, before they were even thought of! Think about that and how much Ford has advanced and improved their product over the years. Why doesn't this same mindset apply to MMO? In all fairness, the MMO product likely had some sort of small benefit when used with sour crude paraffin oils of the Model-A era. Refining techniques have become much more advanced in the last 90-100 years, additives manufactured and used in modern oils has become much more advanced, and even the selections available today vs. some 50 years ago are vastly improved. So contrary to what some might still believe, any special benefit that MMO might have been to Motor Oils -or even Gasolines manufactured some 50+ years ago has most-assuredly been overtaken by modern refiners and blenders who have tailored their product(s) to meet, -or exceed any needs for using MMO in today's gasolines or motor oils. Taking an unscientific and/or opinionated survey to potentially validate something is crazy IMHO as it only spreads more confusion and misinformation.

Maybe refineries are more advanced in how gas is refined but some states
cannot buy gasoline without ethanol added. Ethanol is the almost as bad
as pouring in water to your tank. My tank is 93 years old and I will use MMO to attempt to protect it against rust.

Modern oils are refined for modern cars. They lack zinc, (zddp) which is not
the greatest for older engines. So, I will add MMO for the tank, and zinc for the motor.

[Phil Brown]

I would bet that if I gave one of the users of MMO 10 five-gallon fuel jugs of gas where I put MMO in only one or two of the jugs to use one at a time nobody can tell me which jug or jugs had it in the gas 😏

[GPierce]

My truck always run much better after I wash and clean the interior. Go figure.

[stickshift]

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This same debate has gone on for ages on other forums that I frequent such as H.A.M.B., Yesterday's tractor, Smokestak, etc. The consensus is always the same... some people love it and use it religiously, others doubt it does anything at all to help engines run better. Nothing will change the way people feel, even irrefutable evidence proving one way or the other. The fact that MMO has survived the great depression, and multiple deep recessions means that it is here to stay whether is works, or not. People will always buy it.