Rebuilding the houdaille shocks

[Brentwood Bob]

I have now rebuilt over 40 shocks over the last several months. Mostly, I followed David McCleery's approach(How to Restore Your Model A, vol. 2.) and Les Andrews Red Book, pg 1-256.
Takes about half a day to get one open, a full day to complete the usable cores.
With some steps spread over several days.
Keeping all the parts together for each shock takes extra effort.
I have found various fluids have been used, some recognizable, some still unknown to me.
The attached pictures will show the disassembled shock.
I use 85-140 gear oil, neoprene seals, lead, ss ball bearings, stem packing, and sealant to rebuild the usable cores.
There is a learning curve, and this is an ambitious job. Finding a matching set is problematic, mostly I built Houdaille, and National Acme, the 2 main manufacturers. There is some luck involved finishing up with matching sets, in my experience.

[Brentwood Bob]

Here is a 2 completed set of shocks. You can see how they turned out

[J Franklin]

They look great!

[Brentwood Bob]

Work good too. Thanks.

[ModelAMitch]

Those look awesome, and I bet they look great installed too. Is the ride much improved with these? I currently have no shocks.

[Oldbluoval]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Having done many in the past…..
It may be self evident but …
Don’t mix internal parts. Don’t try to swap out parts from one shock to another. Always build the whole shock as you get it. Covers and retaining rings MAY work sometimes but nothing else ….at least that’s what I’ve found worked for me

[Brentwood Bob]

Same experience and the referenced research bear out your advice.
Treat each shock as a unit.
Either it will successfully function after reworking, or it is too far gone.

[History]

Have you had any to fail after a complete rebuild? If so what’s the longest one worked before failure. How long is the life span after a rebuild? Thanks for the photos!

[Brentwood Bob]

In 2 months none have failed.
All depends on the condition of the shock. Out of 40 selected cores, 3 are very soft, only one is leaking from the cover threads, I can probably stop that.
I would expect these to be working when you hang up the keys.
These are pretty durable.
Pretty soon they will be a hundred years old.
I think a failure is a relative term. Now that I have opened them up, and reworked each one, it will be easier to fix them with even minimal maintenance.

[Brentwood Bob]

I rebuilt 4 that MIGHT have been Apple Rebuilds, they all had had major Surgury.
After I got the black substance out, and cleaned them up they went back together fine, although one had to have the inner cover reworked to make it right.
Untouched originals will be difficult to rebuild. But if they still function, or at least don't show excessive wear, and have fluid the odds of a good one are worth the work.

[rotorwrench]

Folks seldom do any scheduled form of maintenance on these old iron fluid dampers, They would likely last longer if a person took the time to change fluid in them and clean them up. It's not as easy as a person might think so a spare set would likely give plenty of time to get maintenance done like this but most folks don't think about it.

These were throw away items back in the era they were used. Houdaille manufactured a lot of them for the various manufacturers that used them and the price was a way lot better back then. The advent of the "aircraft style shock" in 1947 pretty well ended the use of the who-die style shocks. Only a few European companies used them much after that.

Bell Helicopters used a form of them on their stabilizer bar systems but most folks have converted to "no-bar kits" in the modern era. The stabilizer bars had a tendency to depart the aircraft and folks got tired of the daily inspections they had to perform on them.

[Oldbluoval]

This is BB’s thread
But I’ll chime in about leaks….
Even shocks with superb pressures are prone to leak. I’ve read that they leaked on the dealers floor when new! The cover and lock ring have an o-ring seal between them; I added non-hardening permatex. The needle adjuster had wick packing; I used neoprene or Teflon string (plumbers). I used neoprene seals where the shaft came thru the cover; seldom a problem area unless the shaft was scored or pitted.
Yes I still had some leakers. If I built them for fine point cars, I often was asked to put grease in with the understanding they would one day be filled before road use.

[Brentwood Bob]

at least with a leaker you know it has hydraulic oil.
100%, trouble free, guaranteed not to ever leak is unrealistic.
This part takes a lot of abuse. That's its job.
These are the original parts. I am very happy with my experience.

[rotorwrench]

They look pretty good to me. OEM is a good thing. Stipe shocks look like something made at a gun factory. I'd be afraid to use them for fear they would get scratched.

And yes I did mean GUN. They are too purty to put on.

[old31]

Rotor, i think you meant to say GUN factory. Not gum.

[JayJay]

I rebuilt four on my Town Sedan, and two of them leak badly. In hindsight I realize that the sealing surfaces on the shafts were corroded, and what I should have done was build the corroded surface up with weld and then turn them down again to smooth. Even new O-rings won't seal against a rough surface.

Project for another day...

JayJay

[Brentwood Bob]

Apple turned the shaft smooth and bushed the inner cover.
They also do major Surgury on the base. Must have good capabilities.

[poweredbylincoln]

He does great work on the shocks. They are very nice. I have them on my model a’s. I highly recommend him.

[Brentwood Bob]

Here are some new pictures of rebuilding shocks. Starting with a rusty core

[Brentwood Bob]

Starting my rebuild

[Brentwood Bob]

After cleaning the core

[Brentwood Bob]

Inspection and assembly

[Brentwood Bob]

Thread seal and rubber o ring

[Brentwood Bob]

Filling with gear oil, installing second o ring tightening and adjusting the rebuild shock

[Brentwood Bob]

The finished product a shiny rebuild shock that is ready to use

[Brentwood Bob]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

My new friend is an ultrasonic cleaner.
The ball valves are a bitch to clean without it. Guess I will do a video on the process. Or maybe a couple.

[SonicRaT]

I've rebuilt a multitude of them myself this past year. The ultrasonic cleaners work great on them as does letting them sit in an evaporust bath. It's amazing how many different variations I have found between the internal designs.

[Brentwood Bob]

Something like 54 different shocks. A matched set is not easy to assemble.

[Brentwood Bob]

Plan to bring the finished shocks to Turlock Swap this weekend(tomorrow and Sunday). Stop by and have a look.
Still on the hunt for good cores, especially the later, indented cover, and big eared ones.
Space G-12/G-14.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Plan to bring the finished shocks to Turlock Swap this weekend(tomorrow and Sunday). Stop by and have a look.
Still on the hunt for good cores, especially the later, indented cover, and big eared ones.
Space G-12/G-14.

Bob can you post a pic of the core type you want, or a reference to the RG&JS? I have some I've been meaning to pull off and send you. If they're the kind you want I could expedite.

[Brentwood Bob]

PM sent.

[Ron Niemeyer]

Bob,
I have 4 shocks on a 29 model A I just bought , 2 of which are leaking. The car was restored approximately 20 years ago. I'd like to send them your way and have you asses them and rebuild if needed.
Let me know your interest and availability.
Thank you, Ron

[Brentwood Bob]

Pm sent.

[vern hodgson]

Nice set of photos, more dialog and internal valve work would be interesting . You should makea video

[Brentwood Bob]

Thanks, will probably do a video.

[Bud]

What ultrasonic cleaner did you purchase?

[Brentwood Bob]

Bud, went on Amazon. Got the one with blue faceplates. 10 liter, I think. I will see if it is still on Amazon. HFS looks like it.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

Having done many in the past…..
It may be self evident but …
Don’t mix internal parts. Don’t try to swap out parts from one shock to another. Always build the whole shock as you get it. Covers and retaining rings MAY work sometimes but nothing else ….at least that’s what I’ve found worked for me

Bill, it even addresses this very thing in the Service Bulletins and instructed the rebuilders to not mix components. Either these "instruments" (-Ford's Engineer's nomenclature!) were very precision involving hand-fitting the pieces, -or the factory just kept substituting parts until they got one to work and then told people not to intermix parts!

Kudos to Bob for being able to rebuild these, and thanks to him for sharing!! I have all of the tooling, and have tried to do several sets, -and I have just not had the success that Bob evidently has. So I am curious, how does one account for wear on the Flange Cover bore and the Wingshaft shaft and ends when rebuilding these?

Glycerin originally looked about like honey and I think was about the same viscosity as 50 wt. oil. I don't think Glycerin was all that lubricating to the shock's wear areas, and it also was very nasty about absorbing water as it wore the Wingshaft. That is why most of the ones I find have major wear internally.

I think on the ones I did, the clearances were not brought back to factory spec (-not really restored per se') and some of the more famous go-to shock rebuilders kinda have the same issue with theirs (-again, not really restored but just repaired) in that the replacement oil actually leaks past the rotor housing and the Wingshaft ends where it really doesn't create the same effect as what Ford and Houdaille intended them to have originally. They also leak ...period.

Again, kudos to those who have long-term success if making these fully functional again. For me, for the amount of time it takes to completely machine and restore these back to where everything is to factory specification takes more time to correctly do than it would take me to spend that same amount of time working at McDonalds to save up enough money to just purchase a brand new set that function exactly as they did when the Model-A was new! .

[Oldbluoval]

There are 13 wear surfaces inside the shock (from memory)
Basically if there is enough wear in one, the others are affected. If the housing is worn internally, forget it. I have had some luck turning the reservoir cover but you have to make sure it ends up correctly after turning. Also I’ve bushed reservoir cover and turned the wing shaft. But often the wings have worn the housing…..no pressure !
I cannot invest the time on a worn shock with that much machine work. That’s why I quit building them. About 1 in 10 was rebuildable and you had to often tear down
all 10 know!
…and that was 10-15 years ago. There are obvious signs of junk …full of rust, shaft off center, worked on previous, drilling in the rear..
Stipe shocks really are not out of line on price.

[Brentwood Bob]

Brent, few cores are good enough to come all the way back. And the work involved to open each core up is problematic.
Luck is involved.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Brent, few cores are good enough to come all the way back. And the work involved to open each core up is problematic.
Luck is involved.

Man, I totally agree with you 110%. BTW, Luck is always a good thing to have on your side!!

[Oldbluoval]

At the end of my shock “career”…..or “shocking career”?!
I was just heating all shocks before attempting to open. A bucket of hot charcoal and putting the shocks in!
They would spew, hiss, and stink! Some took double cooking and quench with water.
And they were terrible dirty to work with thereafter
Some never came open even with 100# air wrench like removes lugs!

[rotorwrench]

Heating and cooling cycles will fracture a pretty tight corrosion bond but it has to be heated to a respectable temp and then quenched in water to rapidly break those bonds. It may take several hot/cool cycles to get them debonded but some may just be too far gone.

[Brentwood Bob]

Dry ice is too pricey, so I will try wet ice.

[alexiskai]

Getting ready to send Bob some cores. These came off an early '30 phaeton. The SC4 is most likely not original, both because it doesn't match the date of the car and because someone hacked a chunk out of the shaft to attach an arm going the other way.

[Oldbluoval]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Just coming off a particular year has little to do with the actual stock. Shocks could have been replaced 10 times over. For example your sc4 has a later style cover.
You just never know! If you’re showing the car it makes a difference but functionality, no.
I’m a bit anal and do like for covers to match and approximate year of manufacture. But the adjusters and all that…nah.
To each his own

[DJ S]

Does Stipe still manufacture new shocks?

[Brentwood Bob]

Received and looked over the shocks alexiskai sent. These all have very good action as advertised. Lucky to get them. Will be reworked, and should fill out several matched sets.
When the weather drys out, and warms up I can rework them.
Original good parts are where it's at IMHO.

[rotorwrench]

The way I understand it was that machining technology of the time would get them close to a fit between stator housing and wing shaft rotor. They then lapped them for a close fit so each one was an individual set. Modern technology has gotten machining down to a knat's ars so folks like Stipe can machine them for a good close tolerance fit in the modern era. The parts may also interchange depending on their procedure but I don't know.

The use of the three different fluids was an attempt to find better overall function but things have changed a lot since then. The hydraulic fluids are a lot better and the use of microscopic polymer for temperature/viscosity management has also come a long way.

[Kurt in NJ]

At Hershey I found this shock , it is obvious that the ends of the wingshaft were polished to fit the housing, the fit is less than .0015 and there are no signs that there is metal to metal contact, i can fit a .0015 feeler gauge will fit on one side, but 2 .0015 (one on each side) won’t fit.
with the cover screwed tight there is only.001 end float, the shaft moves easily, no binding.
So i suspect the original clearance specifications are .001

Now i am making a copy of the service bulletins shock testing tool.
It will be interesting to test this shock and see how close it will match the test times at both room temperature and freezing, and the difference between the compression and rebound times. I plan on using Kubota multi viscosity hydraulic oill

[art ebeling]

Bob, Do you rebuild any other houdaille shocks? I need some 1936 shocks rebuilt. Art

[Brentwood Bob]

No, Art, just the 1928-31 Hydraulics on the model a's.

[Oldbluoval]

Andy Falandes on V8 shocks

[Synchro909]

I have a box of old shocks. Most of them are free which I take as a good sign and some even try to dampen movement somewhat. An even better sign?
I have had in the back of my mind, a plan to rebuild what I can from those so I am looking forward to the videos mentioned. Please let the forum know whenyou have done it/them.

[Brentwood Bob]

Will followup. Weather needs to cooperate. Third wettest year on record.

[Hitman]

What’s actually being done here to rebuild the shocks? Freeing them up, sealing the threads, and installing o-rings isn’t a rebuild in my mind. That’s similar to a rebuilt engine being considered rebuilt with new gaskets and a paint job. Nothing more.

Shocks are a constant wear item and have likely seen a tough life with minimal maintenance. If the car is moving, the shocks are. Part restoration and rebuilding requires new parts, which there are none here, or significant welding, machining, surfacing and other restoration methods.

I ask because I’m not seeing much rebuilding here, and at $1200 for a set, that’s significant. I’ve spent more time and cost restoring other parts that aren’t as big of a wear item as shocks.

[Brentwood Bob]

i think you answered your own question. Finding useable matching shocks to rework/ restore then opening them up to get at the internals isn't apparent as seen in the series of pictures. Try it yourself.
The price of the available replacements, or Apple rebuilds are in the same neighborhood.
There is a learning curve.

[Oldbluoval]

Hitman…
As posted before, I built shocks years ago and did well in excess of 100 sets.
You cannot feasibly re-machine old shocks because there are at least 13 wear surfaces. The time, therefore cost, would be prohibitive. Each would require a build up and machining turndown to get the tolerances correct. Finding rebuildable shocks is very difficult as previously noted.
My guess is BB is spending a lot of time opening shocks that are not rebuildable. So likely paying for “R&D” on his hunt for treasure.
To me, fair enough if he provides a great original shock. I’ve seen pics of the Stipe shocks and look terrific. But if I had a choice of original or new…I’d take originals. I have accumulated many perfect original and would not take what BB is asking for them.
But that is why Baskin-Robbins makes the 32 flavors. Just imho

[Hitman]

I agree the pictures in this thread do not capture all of the work that goes into restoring shocks. I've taken them apart and usually let others restore them or buy the new stocks on the market. The new shocks from the English guys look pretty cool. It's conflicting as I do prefer the originals and original look. Perhaps I simply misunderstood the price of cores, they're usually in the dollar pile around here due to the amount of work required to get them apart. I'll hold onto mine .

It's the 13 wear surfaces that is part of my point. If you can't restore the surfaces in a cost effective manner, and Ford specifies that you should mix shock parts, you have to seek out low mileage shocks for clean up and light restoration.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Perhaps I simply misunderstood the price of cores, they're usually in the dollar pile around here due to the amount of work required to get them apart.

The cores are cheap because there's no way to know whether the core is rebuildable until you disassemble it. So the rebuilder bears all the risk, which is why they don't pay much.

I could be wrong but my understanding is you can't swap parts between the different varieties of shocks, but you could combine parts from shocks from the same manufacturer and "run." Maybe not though.

[Brentwood Bob]

30 years ago the local shock rebuilder had a pile of rejects out the back door of his shop that was chest high. He was a retired millwright. A set of his rebuilds are on one of my rigs.
Getting the shocks apart is still the start of the "rebuilding process". My pile of unsuitable cores is very small, but it will grow.

[Oldbluoval]

Parts even from a like manufacturer are not as interchangeable among like manufacturer shocks as u might think. Years and machines morphed from time to time. I tried to stay with parts from the same shock. Specifically, housing, wing and reservoir cover. Lock rings and covers were often interchanged

[Brentwood Bob]

There are some 53 different OEM shocks from the 4 manufactures, then either clockwise, or counter clockwise are needed for a complete set.
My tooling consists of the basics. I do have a homemade fixture to bolt the shock to so it can be operated on. First thing I do with a core is to identify it. Then the process starts.
When the Apple Rebuilt is heated, the internals will be damaged.

[Brentwood Bob]

Steve Schmauch has written the most comprehensive article for The Restorer(MAFCA), describing the Hydraulic Shocks, and has recently published a second revision of his Book, "The Model A Ford Shock Absorbers", this information is summarized in the Judging Standard and Restoration Guidelines. If you want to buy a copy, he can be reached at: [email protected]
When we do our homework we get it right.

[Brentwood Bob]

My contact information is: [email protected]

[Brentwood Bob]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Working on some more shocks. Cleaning the covers

[Brentwood Bob]

Disassembling,cleaning,repairing and rebuilding shocks. I am working on making a set of rare late 1931 shocks

[Brentwood Bob]

These are some finished shocks that I rebuild. If you need any let me know

[Brentwood Bob]

Here are some complete sets of shocks that I have rebuilt

[Brentwood Bob]

For Christmas.

[RHD]

My book - 'Model 'A' Ford Houdaille Hydraulic Suspension' by Les. Pearson is available on eBay. Search the title. The best book ever written on Model 'A' shock restoration. Lots of close-up pictures and a lot of technical info.

[Brentwood Bob]

I have a copy, a very big help, thanks.

[Jim Mason]

Where are you getting the wingshaft o ring.? The recent rebuild 'kits' have two slip bushings like in plumbing.

[Brentwood Bob]

Agriculture supply in Stockton. Haven't figured out how to use the flat rings. I use nitrile Orings like in the kits.

[Jim Mason]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Agriculture supply in Stockton. Haven't figured out how to use the flat rings. I use nitrile Orings like in the kits.

Part no. Or dimensions. . I used my last ones and don't want to Dissasemble them to measure. Tia

[Brentwood Bob]

1-5/16" x 3/16"

[Jim Mason]

Thanks

[Brentwood Bob]

They are cheap so I bought several sizes the first trip. I am 30 minutes west of the supply house.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by JayJay

I rebuilt four on my Town Sedan, and two of them leak badly. In hindsight I realize that the sealing surfaces on the shafts were corroded, and what I should have done was build the corroded surface up with weld and then turn them down again to smooth. Even new O-rings won't seal against a rough surface.

Project for another day...

JayJay

So, after sitting around on this for over a year, I finally decided to have Bob rebuild them for me. They turned out very nice. Haven't installed them yet but I have no doubts that they will perform well.