Are brake floaters worth it?

[freak]

Since I'm re-doing my brakes I noticed the floater kits. Pretty expensive. Kits range from $200-260. Are these worth the cost?

[Bill G]

After three tries at the Flathead brand, I gave up. The instructions say that all parts need to be in tip-top shape before proceeding. That was probably my issue to begin with. I was kind of seduced by the notion that putting the kit on that my Model A brakes would magically be like a modern car brakes. My brakes actually work very well with stock and standard parts and while my brakes are all standard parts, they are pretty new with Randy Gross shoes and cast iron drums. I am pretty happy with what I have and my Flathead kit now sits on the shelf. My advice is to see what you can do with good standard parts before going that route.

[Jack Shaft]

Absolutely, worth every nickle..like anything else, when installing them you have to be conscious of how they work and do the extras,making sure things slide and fit as they should.

[WHN]

I have a completely rebuilt stock braking system on our 29, we even still have steel drums.

Wheels lock up. What more can you ask for. Once locked! That’s it.

If rebuilt correctly, original braking system should work fine. Just make sure you look at every part. Don’t cut corners. Every part.......

[larrys40]

You don’t need the brake floaters . Restore the original system properly, use cast iron drums, arc shoes to drum. Pay attention to detail, And set up and adjust system properly. I have done hundreds of a brake jobs and am NOT an advocate for the aftermarket gimmicks .
My brake jobs lock them up .
Larry Shepard

[MAG]

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X2 on Post #5.
If you have to install floaters to make them work you haven't done something correctly.

[alexiskai]

Is "can you lock up your brakes, yes or no" really the sole criterion for whether the floater kits have value? I thought the point was that the floaters reduced the amount of pedal pressure required to apply a given amount of braking force, making the brakes more responsive.

[Patrick L.]

Some folks swear by them while some swear at them.

Energizing brakes are a good thing, but, I've not felt the need.

Mine will lock up at 40 mph with steel drums. I think the limiting factor is the skinny tires.

[TerryH]

I had them installed many years ago, and they never did work properly, even after having several other knowledgeable Model A folks look at them. I removed them and went back to stock, and am aware some have great luck with them.....

[nkaminar]

They are worth the cost to me. My brakes were in good shape before I installed the floaters. The pedal pressure is reduced to about one-third. You remove the large springs which some people have said that is why the pedal pressure is reduced, but the spring pressure is a small fraction of the total brake pedal pressure.

One important advantage is even wear of the shoes. With the standard setup, one shoe is self energized while the other is not.

With the self energizing feature they are almost like having power brakes.


They are a little difficult to install correctly but not for anyone with mechanical experience. You have to read all the available information and view the videos. Your brakes must be in as-new condition before installing the floaters.

[alexiskai]

Use the 2006/2007 MAT articles linked on Ted's site.

[Dick Carne]

I put them along with steel drums on my last restoration, but have no intentions to put them on my current restoration. I haven't been able to deduce any real difference with floaters than with the standard brake set-ups on my other cars. I am inclined to agree with those above who have suggested that a properly reworked original brake set up is probably the way to go ... and certainly much less expensive! Good luck whichever route you choose.

[Y-Blockhead]

I just went thru the brakes my Town Sedan (new cast drum, shoes, anything out of spec) and I felt my brakes were really good.

Then I won a FHT Brake Kit in the opportunity drawing at the OCMAC Pancake Breakfast a few years ago and I figured I would try them (cost me ~$5). I feel they are a definite improvement over the stock. They have been on my car for ~3 years now.

Read the various articles by Tom Endy and the Model A Times before you decide. Flat Head Ted video, not so much.

[Synchro909]

I recently went through the front brakes on a car that had Ted's kit installed by the previous owner but he hadn't done a good job of it. After taking it all out and reading the instructions (which it was clear the PO didn't do), we reassembled with care. That car now has brakes as good as any and better than most with a nice progressive feel on the pedal.
I suspect those cars where floaters and other kits have been installed with results less than expected are either poorly installed or the owner was expecting too much. Just sayin.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

For Colin and others who feel the FHT floaters make the brake pedal pressure softer/easier, can you tell me exactly the component in his kit that allows this to happen?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

For Colin and others who feel the FHT floaters make the brake pedal pressure softer/easier, can you tell me exactly the component in his kit that allows this to happen?

I'm no engineer, but I think it's supposed to be the floating wedge and anchor. The rotational force exerted on one shoe by the rotating drum is transferred as braking force to the other shoe via the floaters, rather than being transferred to stationary components on the backing plate. In this manner, some of the braking force is "recycled" from the wheel itself, decreasing the force exerted by the operator to achieve a given braking force.

[Jack Shaft]

The brake shoe 'self energizes', it cams into the drum by centrifugal force, this gives the feel of reduced effort. A centered style system does not use the drums kinetic energy to assist in application.

I run 16" wheels and modern radials,its almost impossible to 'lock up'...basically lose control while braking. The floaters made a noticeable difference in stopping power.

[Jack Shaft]

The design was created by Bendix,and the concept is the standard of drum braking today..as usual, Ford resisted anything Bendix till the market forced them to it.

Does anyone know why Ford didnt like Bendix?

[Bob Bidonde]

Flathead Ted's brake floaters improve a fully restored stock brake system by a large amount! I proved this to myself on my Victoria that had a 100% brake restoration to an OEM configuration. Then I put Flathead Ted's brake floaters on the car and WOW!!!!! What a fantastic difference!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I'm no engineer, but I think it's supposed to be the floating wedge and anchor. The rotational force exerted on one shoe by the rotating drum is transferred as braking force to the other shoe via the floaters, rather than being transferred to stationary components on the backing plate. In this manner, some of the braking force is "recycled" from the wheel itself, decreasing the force exerted by the operator to achieve a given braking force.

Could it be that you removed part of the brake springs?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Could it be that you removed part of the brake springs?

If you have a point here, make it.

[Jack Shaft]

the spring has to be removed to allow it to 'cam' in.. got to admit, the front brake modification was genius.. the rear is not as effective.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

If you have a point here, make it.

Colin, it has been made many times before on here. My point is, -part of the brake pedal pressure needed in stopping is to over come the tension of the springs on each corner's braking system. Remove some of these springs and it requires less pedal pressure to push the shoes towards the drum. That really has nothing to do with the 'kit'. So, saying because of his brake kit, it now requires less pedal pressure is not really accurate is it? In other words, I can use the same brake pedal pressure on a stock braking system with springs removed and achieve the same results

The next term that is so often over-used is this thing called centering. Ford never used a gage going down the line to make sure each set of shoes was centered. The biggest issue is people use band-aids to cover up boo-boos. Ever since I started installing roller tracks that are the same OE dimension, -AND in the same location as when Ford's assembly workers installed them, I have not needed to even check if the shoes are centered, ..because every time I do check, they are. Ford specified on the print "Locate accurately to this dimension." ...and he gave a tolerance of just a few thousandth for it to be located. From my experience, the Brake Housing Plate mounting holes along with the shanks of the Rivets and the holes in the Brake Shoe Centering Bracket can all add up to installation somewhere around in the 0.040" - 0.050" out of the proper location. This is why Ford did not allow the mechanics in the Agencies to replace the centering brackets. Unless you have a fixture to jig it off of, in all likelihood you will be wrong when you install it.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Colin, it has been made many times before on here. My point is, -part of the brake pedal pressure needed in stopping is to over come the tension of the springs on each corner's braking system. Remove some of these springs and it requires less pedal pressure to push the shoes towards the drum. That really has nothing to do with the 'kit'. So, saying because of his brake kit, it now requires less pedal pressure is not really accurate is it? In other words, I can use the same brake pedal pressure on a stock braking system with springs removed and achieve the same results

To tell the truth, I could not tell if the springs were removed or not when stepping on the pedal when the car is standing still.

It is only when the car is moving and the brakes are applied that the self-energizing brakes feel softer. I believe it has to do with the shoes being pulled into the drums and you don't have to apply as much pressure to the pedal.

It is hard to explain but they do feel like power assist brakes on later cars (to a lesser degree).

[nkaminar]

Brent, the spring force is small compared to the pressure to force the shoes against the drums. The real reason that less pedal pressure is needed is because the friction is helping to force the shoes against the drums. You will have to do a free body diagram of the shoes with all the forces involved to understand how this works. One way to demonstrate this to yourself if to take a pencil and push it against a table with the eraser facing forward. As your increase the angle the force required to move the pencil increases with very little downward effort required on your part. At some angle you will not be able to move the pencil forward. That would be too much self actuating.

[Jack Shaft]

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Brent Terry understands the concept of self energizing brakes. He also knows how to make the stock centered brakes function as well as they can. Many folks on here are satisfied with the stock braking system.Anyone who has driven a car with properly installed floaters on properly maintained brake foundations realize the benefit of what Ted engineered.I run mechanical brakes on a car with double the power of stock with modern radials on 16"wheels. The added benefits of self energizing brakes is welcome.

[buckwild 27]

They work good on my coupe.

[Conaway2]

I installed a set of brake floaters on the front brakes years ago. They did work, but the stock front brake tracks were worn and new parts were not available then, so the floaters were an improvement. However, when I properly rebuilt the brakes a few years later, I removed the floaters and am quite happy with the stock brakes, which work very well.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Brent, the spring force is small compared to the pressure to force the shoes against the drums. The real reason that less pedal pressure is needed is because the friction is helping to force the shoes against the drums. You will have to do a free body diagram of the shoes with all the forces involved to understand how this works. One way to demonstrate this to yourself if to take a pencil and push it against a table with the eraser facing forward. As your increase the angle the force required to move the pencil increases with very little downward effort required on your part. At some angle you will not be able to move the pencil forward. That would be too much self actuating.

There is one little issue that you are overlooking. On the floater area where the wedge pushes downward against the rollers, there is room for the floater to move laterally ....to a certain extent however the Wedge Stud still creates a positive stop (for the Wedge) where the shoes cannot rotate any further. When that happens, the wedge pushing downward no longer has any rotational advantage to provide what some are calling "self-energizing", so any mechanical/frictional advantage ceases.


Just a FWIW, my dad and several others tried something where they used an original Adjusting Wedge and used a hacksaw to cut and remove the wedge area. They just put that loose wedge inside the housing and re-installed the cap. The adjuster shaft was used to set the shoe clearance. This was done back in the 1970s, way before the FH Ted set-up. Instead of the Wedge against rollers, there was a triangle set-up that worked well however the downside is these triangle pivots would go over-center and lock the shoes against the drum if the shoes were not in proper adjustment.


The bottom line in this entire reoccurring debate is what are we/you/me trying to accomplish? Ford designed this car to appeal to Lady drivers. Many of these ladies were petite and lady-like (-not tough construction worker types) so the effort required to operate these vehicles had to be well within their capabilities. These cars were also designed to be driven 60 mph, so the original braking system had to be designed to accommodate a feminine driver's braking capability while also safely stopping from higher speeds. So have we become such 'wimps' now that we don't have the muscles in our right leg to depress the pedal on a stock braking system?

Sure, I am all about upgrades or improvements such as bonded linings or cast drums, but so often we get into the mindset that the original systems (generators, 6v electrical, updraft carbs, steering gearboxes, etc.) MUST all be upgraded if we want reliability and serviceability. From my experience around these cars, many of these things are just not needed to have properly functioning Model-As that will safely and reliably start, stop, and steer, -however it is indeed your car and your money, so make it whatever you want it to be.

[Benson]

As Brent mentioned in post #29 South Gate Brake Specialties Co. 1335 E. Washington L. A. California manufactured some "brake floaters" they called them "Ford Direct Action Brake".

Quote from Brent's post:
"Instead of the Wedge against rollers, there was a triangle set-up that worked well however the downside is these triangle pivots would go over-center and lock the shoes against the drum if the shoes were not in proper adjustment."
unquote


This has to be before July 1st, 1963 because the address on instruction sheet that I have here does not have the 5 ZIP digit code for L. A.

I put a pair on the coupe and yes they worked well.

But as the shoes wore out the triangle floaters would go over center.

Result was a VERY LOUD BANG and the wheel would lock up.

Not a big deal if you were going under 40 MPH but very scary to have one front wheel lockup at 60 like happened to me!

I went back to stock brakes after they locked up several times.

[nkaminar]

Brent,



The stock cars worked great. I drove stock Model A's up to this year when I bought my Fordor. I loved my stock roadster which I drove all over California in the 60's and 70's. I drove it to Oregon in freezing rain. But I also love my Fordor which is about twice the normal horsepower with a bottom end to match and the FHT floaters and F 150 steering. Except for the FHT floaters, it came that way. Would I buy a stock car (if I could afford a second car)? You bet. Would I keep it stock? You bet.



Regarding how the FHT floaters work, the floating wedge used for adjustment transfers the rotating force to the other shoe, which would otherwise be stationary at that point. In the stock system one shoe is expanded in the direction of rotation and the other shoe is expanded against the rotation. I am sure you have seen how one shoe wears more than the other.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Benson

As Brent mentioned in post #29 South Gate Brake Specialties Co. 1335 E. Washington L. A. California manufactured some "brake floaters" they called them "Ford Direct Action Brake".

Quote from Brent's post:
"Instead of the Wedge against rollers, there was a triangle set-up that worked well however the downside is these triangle pivots would go over-center and lock the shoes against the drum if the shoes were not in proper adjustment."
unquote


This has to be before July 1st, 1963 because the address on instruction sheet that I have here does not have the 5 ZIP digit code for L. A.

I put a pair on the coupe and yes they worked well.

But as the shoes wore out the triangle floaters would go over center.

Result was a VERY LOUD BANG and the wheel would lock up.

Not a big deal if you were going under 40 MPH but very scary to have one front wheel lockup at 60 like happened to me!

I went back to stock brakes after they locked up several times.

Yep, that was them. I can remember as a kid of 7 or 8 y.o. being on tour with the club and a set of them on a Coupe went over center right in the middle of Houston. It just so happened to be in front of a shop (-can't remember if it happened in front of a mechanics shop or whether it was a wrecking yard), but I vividly remember them wheeling out a huge cutting torch from that shop. The club guys had the R/F of the vehicle jacked up and the wheel removed, and the guy with the torch used it to cut a hole in the brake drum large enough to stick a screwdriver thru the hole to pry the wedge upward so they could get the brake drum removed. Fifty-plus years later today, it probably doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but back then it was 'intense' for a kid seeing them take a torch to cut on a restored car!!

[Dodge]

Isn't the other function of the FHT kit to put more front brake bias into the car
as in stock form the braking bias is towards the rear.???

[nkaminar]

Dodge,



You can do that with the stock brakes too. Ford instructions were to have the rear brakes come on first. I think it was a hold over from the Model T, which had only rear wheel brakes, and the thinking at the time. I think the idea was to keep the car going straight. However, with heavy braking much of the weight of the car is thrown forward so that all wheels will lock up at the same time even with more bias in the front.

[SteveE]

Originally Posted by freak

Since I'm re-doing my brakes I noticed the floater kits. Pretty expensive. Kits range from $200-260. Are these worth the cost?

I compared that to the cost of crashing and possibly hurting others or me and my GF or to the $3500 for juice brakes and the $265 was peanuts after that.

[SteveE]

Does anyone else have the newest Flathead Ted brake floater kit?

I just installed the right rear and wanted to ensure that I placed the two new silver and gold rectangular adjusters in the correct configuration. The Ted instructions are not very clear nor were his sketch and pictures. I placed them on the right side on the back of the rollers with the hole on top for the cotter pins.

Do they go in the other direction with the offset rectangular face on top?

[mercman from oz]

Larger picture of this brake backing plate fitted with Ted's Brake Floaters.
Steve's Question - are they fitted correctly?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by SteveE

Does anyone else have the newest Flathead Ted brake floater kit?

I just installed the right rear and wanted to ensure that I placed the two new silver and gold rectangular adjusters in the correct configuration. The Ted instructions are not very clear nor were his sketch and pictures. I placed them on the right side on the back of the rollers with the hole on top for the cotter pins.

Do they go in the other direction with the offset rectangular face on top?

Steve, you have them installed correctly. They replace the stock roller pins and ride on the roller tracks.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/R...itting-559.pdf

[freak]

Originally Posted by SteveE

I compared that to the cost of crashing and possibly hurting others or me and my GF or to the $3500 for juice brakes and the $265 was peanuts after that.

I didn't see the choice that way. I saw it as a choice between stock brakes with stock stopping power and modified brakes with possibly enhanced stopping power. I'm not convinced that I need more than stock stopping power.

[SteveE]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Steve, you have them installed correctly. They replace the stock roller pins and ride on the roller tracks.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/R...itting-559.pdf

Thank you! Now off to the left side and fronts looked pretty easy. The video I viewed of the install was for the older kit and it threw me off a bit.

[SteveE]

Originally Posted by freak

I didn't see the choice that way. I saw it as a choice between stock brakes with stock stopping power and modified brakes with possibly enhanced stopping power. I'm not convinced that I need more than stock stopping power.

Half joking. But I prefer the feel of the floaters (only the front basic kit installed now but upgrading to the most expensive all four brake kit from Ted). They give the braking up front a feel of even pressure of the pads against the drum and almost feels as if they are pulsating a bit like my modern brakes do. I noticed better stopping with the basic kit. Looking forward to the Teds kits on all 4.

[P_Moore]

Thanks for the info, great reading

[WHN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

There is one little issue that you are overlooking. On the floater area where the wedge pushes downward against the rollers, there is room for the floater to move laterally ....to a certain extent however the Wedge Stud still creates a positive stop (for the Wedge) where the shoes cannot rotate any further. When that happens, the wedge pushing downward no longer has any rotational advantage to provide what some are calling "self-energizing", so any mechanical/frictional advantage ceases.


Just a FWIW, my dad and several others tried something where they used an original Adjusting Wedge and used a hacksaw to cut and remove the wedge area. They just put that loose wedge inside the housing and re-installed the cap. The adjuster shaft was used to set the shoe clearance. This was done back in the 1970s, way before the FH Ted set-up. Instead of the Wedge against rollers, there was a triangle set-up that worked well however the downside is these triangle pivots would go over-center and lock the shoes against the drum if the shoes were not in proper adjustment.


The bottom line in this entire reoccurring debate is what are we/you/me trying to accomplish? Ford designed this car to appeal to Lady drivers. Many of these ladies were petite and lady-like (-not tough construction worker types) so the effort required to operate these vehicles had to be well within their capabilities. These cars were also designed to be driven 60 mph, so the original braking system had to be designed to accommodate a feminine driver's braking capability while also safely stopping from higher speeds. So have we become such 'wimps' now that we don't have the muscles in our right leg to depress the pedal on a stock braking system?

Sure, I am all about upgrades or improvements such as bonded linings or cast drums, but so often we get into the mindset that the original systems (generators, 6v electrical, updraft carbs, steering gearboxes, etc.) MUST all be upgraded if we want reliability and serviceability. From my experience around these cars, many of these things are just not needed to have properly functioning Model-As that will safely and reliably start, stop, and steer, -however it is indeed your car and your money, so make it whatever you want it to be.

This has been my view for over 60 years. As from the factory! The Model A was/is a GREAT car. Almost 100 years, that has to tell you something.

If a Model A operating system is restored back to factory spec’s, the brakes or whatever will work very well.

The only thing I would add to a well sorted out car, are directional signals.

Enjoy.

[Synchro909]

Here are a couple of devious tricks I used to improve the brakes on my Model As. Firstly, I use a cross shaft from a LHD car. On those, the brake actuating lever is located in the "dip" where the shaft goes under the gearbox. For that reason, it is longer than the one on a RHD cross shaft. By the time I slide it along the shaft to where it should be in a RHD car and bend it to fit the clevis on the rod, I have more leverage and thus, more brakes front and back.
The bigger change is making the front brakes better than the back ones. I have cast iron drums on the front only and those wedges with a floating pin fitted. The rear brakes are unmodified. Now for the big one. I take a pair of the longer actuating arms from the back, make a bush (they have a larger ID than the front ones) and bend them a little so the brake rod will fit and attach them at the front.
It is clear to me that Henry put a strong bias towards the rear brakes simply by using a longer lever on them. By the time all of those measures are combined, the balance is about right. Mine was easily the best braking car in our club at a recent test.

PS when fitting the longer arms on the front, I have to modify the return springs because the rods are higher at the front and they are no longer in the right place. Easy!

[Pete]

Many people seem to think the laws of physics don't apply to them.
There is only ONE way to make a completely stock model A stop quicker than the way it came from the factory and that is add weight to the car. Do all of your stopping tests with 5 200 lb. people in the car.
Floaters or even 6 puck disc race brakes will NOT stop it any quicker without adding weight.
Several modifications or fancy parts will however lower the pedal pressure required for a maximum effort minimum distance stop.

One important thing to remember is, if you add 1000 lb. to the car, you may want to add floaters or disc brakes to be able to push the pedal easier.

(It should be mentioned here that brake pedal modulation while enabling a quicker shorter maximum effort stop is NOT used in stock, as factory delivered brake testing)

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by Pete

Many people seem to think the laws of physics don't apply to them.
There is only ONE way to make a completely stock model A stop quicker than the way it came from the factory and that is add weight to the car. Do all of your stopping tests with 5 200 lb. people in the car.
Floaters or even 6 puck disc race brakes will NOT stop it any quicker without adding weight.
Several modifications or fancy parts will however lower the pedal pressure required for a maximum effort minimum distance stop.

One important thing to remember is, if you add 1000 lb. to the car, you may want to add floaters or disc brakes to be able to push the pedal easier.

(It should be mentioned here that brake pedal modulation while enabling a quicker shorter maximum effort stop is NOT used in stock, as factory delivered brake testing)

With respect, I will need convincing that that is so. The brakes slow the car car by dissipating energy. Ie, they convert kinetic energy into heat. At the same speed, the heavier the car , the greater the energy to be converted by the brakes and they can only do that at a certain rate. Double the weight, double the energy, double the energy the brakes have to dissipate - the longer it takes to dissipate it all (stop)
By improving the efficiency of the brakes with any of these changes, the stopping distance can be reduced.
Adding weight will mean a greater coefficient of friction between the tyres and the road but it will still take longer to stop especially if the tyres skid.
That's my take on it anyway.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

With respect, I will need convincing that that is so. The brakes slow the car car by dissipating energy. Ie, they convert kinetic energy into heat. At the same speed, the heavier the car , the greater the energy to be converted by the brakes and they can only do that at a certain rate. Double the weight, double the energy, double the energy the brakes have to dissipate - the longer it takes to dissipate it all (stop)
By improving the efficiency of the brakes with any of these changes, the stopping distance can be reduced.
Adding weight will mean a greater coefficient of friction between the tyres and the road but it will still take longer to stop especially if the tyres skid.
That's my take on it anyway.

Both you and Pete have the same idea, and I agree with him in the fact that after I/we have properly rebuilt a set of Model-A mechanical brakes, it is easy to slide the wheel(s) just because of the clamping forces of the shoes to the drum(s). In the situation of that, we all would likely agree that if we can prevent the sliding during a panic stop, we can effectively stop the vehicle in a shorter distance. Adding weight (-within reason) is an easy and predictable way to increase the friction and prevent the skinny stock-size tires from sliding on the pavement.

Adding one more thought into this scenario, many Model-As out there have old(er) tires that have rubber that is 'harder' than Chinese Arithmetic. The friction or 'gripping power' of these tires as compared to good quality fresh tires is definitely at a disadvantage. In other words, just because a driver does not hear squealing tires during hard braking does not mean the old hard tires are not scrubbing off little balls of rubber effectively reducing grip or friction between the tire and the road surface.

[nkaminar]

I have cast iron drums and floaters on my otherwise stock mechanical brakes on my 1930 sedan. The brakes were in excellent shape before I installed the floaters. One caveat is that I replaced the levers on the front with ones used in the back. They are longer. I have backed off the rear adjusters 1/4 turn and the car stops better.

Yesterday I did a brake test at 20 mph on dry asphalt. I stopped in 17 feet where as before the stopping distance was 21 feet. The rears still skid but more braking is in the front than before. In normal driving I definitely feel the braking is better.

[5lugnuts]

My car came with cast iron drums and all original parts were replaced. I added the longer rear levers to the front with the use of bushings of the correct inside and outside diameters from a chain hardware store which I cut the length to fit the width of the levers. Now all wheels had the same mechanical advantage. To add front bias, I added floaters from the usual suppliers (Snyders) to the front.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

With respect, I will need convincing that that is so. The brakes slow the car car by dissipating energy. Ie, they convert kinetic energy into heat. At the same speed, the heavier the car , the greater the energy to be converted by the brakes and they can only do that at a certain rate. Double the weight, double the energy, double the energy the brakes have to dissipate - the longer it takes to dissipate it all (stop)
By improving the efficiency of the brakes with any of these changes, the stopping distance can be reduced.
Adding weight will mean a greater coefficient of friction between the tyres and the road but it will still take longer to stop especially if the tyres skid.
That's my take on it anyway.

First, the coefficient of friction does not change with a different braking system.
The only thing that changes that is a different type or composition of rubber and braking surface.

When you add weight, you add braking surface. With new tires it can be more than double.

Efficiency of the braking system only has to do with pedal pressure required to go to full lock. If you want to stop quicker, buy bigger tires or go to a rougher street.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Bill G

After three tries at the Flathead brand, I gave up. The instructions say that all parts need to be in tip-top shape before proceeding. That was probably my issue to begin with. I was kind of seduced by the notion that putting the kit on that my Model A brakes would magically be like a modern car brakes. My brakes actually work very well with stock and standard parts and while my brakes are all standard parts, they are pretty new with Randy Gross shoes and cast iron drums. I am pretty happy with what I have and my Flathead kit now sits on the shelf. My advice is to see what you can do with good standard parts before going that route.

"Randy Gross shoes" - ???

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Gene F

"Randy Gross shoes" - ???

I have Randy Gross shoes also, work great.