Update on head

[Kevin - Illinois]

Well, I was able to get all but two studs out. I was not pleased to find I also have two with heli coils in them, at least the studs came out of these.

First things first, any suggestions on how to get the last two studs out without breaking them. I've soaked them in PB Blaster for 3 days.

Second, any suggestions on what to do with the holes that have heli coils? I'm not sure I want to screw back into those...

Block and piston cleaning is going ok, and the head is at the machine shop getting magnifluxed and resurfaced.

[2manycars]

If helicoils are installed properly, they are fine. You could try some heat on the studs that are stuck. Heat them red, then let them cool before trying to turn them.

[cannon]

i have had luck this way:after heat/cooling, rap the top of the bolt with a hammer a couple of times, then use a pipe wrench as close to the block as possible. try loosen/tighten, loosen/tighten with a lot of luck and a little skill: presto!

[Mitch//pa]

whats wrong with a properly installed helicoil?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by cannon

i have had luck this way:after heat/cooling, rap the top of the bolt with a hammer a couple of times, then use a pipe wrench as close to the block as possible. try loosen/tighten, loosen/tighten with a lot of luck and a little skill: presto!

I found that "KROIL" works even better than "presto"

[Model A Man]

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when i used to work in aerospace we used Helicoils on everything

[Kevin - Illinois]

I'm good with using the heli coils if you think it isn't a problem. I had just heard that they don't hold up with 55 pounds of torque. I really don't much about them.

Quote from cannon...i have had luck this way:after heat/cooling, rap the top of the bolt with a hammer a couple of times, then use a pipe wrench as close to the block as possible. try loosen/tighten, loosen/tighten with a lot of luck and a little skill: presto!

Thanks for the advice on the heat. Sounds like patience is a good thing to have also...

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Just heat and cool those studs, lots of juice, they will come eventually. Use a pipe wrench close to the deck.The helicoils are fine!

[Steve Wastler]

If you try using heat, an old mechanics trick is to heat the stud just till it will melt wax, let the wax flow into the threads, let it cool and the stud should turn out realatively easy.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've also heard excellent rusults using the wax method. I need to remember to try it the next time I have a stuck stud.

[Kevin - Illinois]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I've also heard excellent rusults using the wax method. I need to remember to try it the next time I have a stuck stud.

Ok Tom, what is the wax method?

[1931 flamingo]

Others have mentioned mixing automatic trans fluid and acetone, say better than kroil
Paul in CT

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Kevin - Illinois

Ok Tom, what is the wax method?

Heat the stud enough till it will melt wax and let it flow into the threads. I first learned of this about 5 years ago but haven't tried it yet. Others have reported good results.

[James Rogers]

I have removed as many as 140 studs in one day and only broke 2. I figure that's pretty good odds. I don't heat the stud but only heat the block as much as possible. I use acetone and ATF or PB Blaster when the block cools enough to not set the fluid on fire. I also use Jim's method of a pipe wrench close to the block and have a fine feel for studs that are weak. That feel is the most important and refined over the last 40 or more years.

[Pete]

A mixture of half and half acetone and ATF is probably the best penetrant
known at this time. Wax is good but it requires heat and heat applied indiscriminately is bad.
We cut the broken stud off close to the surface and machine it out in the mill. Takes no more than 5 minutes per stud.
Heliciols properly installed will last forever unless the base metal is absolutely rotten. They will take at least twice the maximum specified torque for the screw.(don't try that though)
On blocks where the base metal is completely rotten or it has been previously tapped oversize, we bore it and put a steel plug in.
On modified engines we plug all the head stud holes.

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by Pete

On blocks where the base metal is completely rotten or it has been previously tapped oversize, we bore it and put a steel plug in.
On modified engines we plug all the head stud holes.

Pete, when you say "bore it and put a steel plug in" are you referring to a thick-wall threaded insert, or something else?

And could you define "modified"--at what level do you plug all the holes?

Thanks.

Joe

[Pete]

Originally Posted by JoeWay

Pete, when you say "bore it and put a steel plug in" are you referring to a thick-wall threaded insert, or something else?

And could you define "modified"--at what level do you plug all the holes?

Thanks.

Joe

Yes, a thick wall threaded insert..Usually 3/8 pipe thread on the outside.

If I am putting an aluminum head on I plug all holes..
I use aluminum heads on all my modified flathead engines.
They are easier to modify than the iron ones.
For these applications I make studs from 4340 bar stock.
It's all these LITTLE things that save you headaches down the road.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Most people don't have pete's equipment to remove a broken stud and it's hard to centerpunch the rough top of the broken-off stud(stud-stub?). If you put the head back with some other studs and reduce the size of the stud hole with a piece of 1/4"pipe or tubing cut even with the surface of the head.then you can drill in with a long 1/4" bit enough to get an easy-out in.The 1/4' bit will take out enough material you might not even need the easy-out.

[Richard/Ca]

I thought I was doing such a great job. Center punch the broken stud dead center drilled it out starting with a 1/4" drill and progress until I could see some threads.Ran a flat bottom tap down in thinking I was just chasing the thread. Everything look good until I ran a stud down the hole. the hole came out crooked and stud leans towards the outside of the block. NOW what can I do to fix it ?

[1931 flamingo]

"form" it verticle ?
Paul in CT

[Bob A.]

Richard,
I think you're going to have to do it again. They sell an attachment that goes on your drill. This thing looks like a large thick washer with two studs coming off it that clamps to your drill. If you're handy you can make it up.
Then what I would do is use an EZ-Lok plug in it..
Just a suggestion
I'm sure Your going to get a few suggestions from the boy's

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Richard/Ca

I thought I was doing such a great job. Center punch the broken stud dead center drilled it out starting with a 1/4" drill and progress until I could see some threads.Ran a flat bottom tap down in thinking I was just chasing the thread. Everything look good until I ran a stud down the hole. the hole came out crooked and stud leans towards the outside of the block. NOW what can I do to fix it ?

Mickey Mouse method:
Clean the hole with acetone. Install the stud with green Loctite.
Let it sit overnight.
Next day bang the stud straight with a rubber hammer.

Best method:
Take it to a machine shop and have the hole repaired with a steel plug.

Next time:
Bring it to me to fix...It would only have cost you $10.

[Kevin - Illinois]

I tend to agree with you Paul. Richard is the stud tight in the hole? That would be my solution if it is but I'm dealing with an engine that will be rebuilt in a coupe years anyway.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Strip the block down to nothing, and take it to a machine shop and have them put in a thick walled insert. The crank has to be out so they can set it level on the mill, they they can drill it straight and square.

[Bob A.]

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

Strip the block down to nothing, and take it to a machine shop and have them put in a thick walled insert. The crank has to be out so they can set it level on the mill, they they can drill it straight and square.

From the pictures Kevin posted,it looks like the engine is in the car.
Jim don't you think thats a little bit of work for one stud?
Maybe later on when he's going to do a major overhaul.

[Dave in MN]

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I have found the wax method to work quite well on stubborn head and manifold bolts.
The wax method I use:
Heat the stuck stud cherry red as close to the block surface as possible without doing damage to the block. Let the stud cool to the point that when a wax candle or canning wax block is held against the stud the wax flows down quickly to the block surface without producing smoke. If the stud is to hot, it will flow but much of it goes up in smoke. At this point I will strike the top of the stud a couple times with a hammer and then apply wax again. Let everything cool to room temp and then try to remove the stud. Most of the time it will back right out. If it is still stuck, repeat the process. I have only broken one stud since I was clued in to the "wax method" by a fellow Club member.
Good Day!
Dave in MN
www.durableperformance.net

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by Dave Mellor NJ

Most people don't have pete's equipment to remove a broken stud and it's hard to centerpunch the rough top of the broken-off stud(stud-stub?). If you put the head back with some other studs and reduce the size of the stud hole with a piece of 1/4"pipe or tubing cut even with the surface of the head.then you can drill in with a long 1/4" bit enough to get an easy-out in.The 1/4' bit will take out enough material you might not even need the easy-out.

Dave's method is my standard procedure for stud removal when the engine is in the car. I also use a head to center and align the drill for a Helicoil. The size of the drill used for a 7/16" helicoil is a good fit in a head and provides for precise location and alignment. Having the head in place also keeps the drill cuttings from finding their way into the cylinders. I do use a cracked original head for this purpose but you could use your good head. Make sure you place a stop or some tape on your drill bit when doing this to eliminate the possibility of drilling to deep. Measure a good clean stud hole with the head on and transfer the depth to your drill bit. Use the top of the head and the tape as your visual guides for depth.
Good Day!
Dave in MN