How fast can an 80 year old A engine go?

[Milton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5np5XvEaBPI&feature=plcp

Real fast!!!!!!

[CHuDWah]

Musta had the spark all the way down

[Bassman/NZ]

Dyno'd at 360hp with 9lbs of boost.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Congrats to the whole team. What a great accomplishment!!

[Frank Nemo]

It didn't sound like a Model A, they must have had the wrong muffler. Also the steering seemed a little loose once he got it over 200 MPH.

WOW, what a performance. I'll have a new answer for those who ask, "Hey mister, how fast will it go"!

[Benson]

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Does anyone know how many speeds the transmission is?

Seems from video that he shifts alot ...

What is aprox. Quick Change ratio at those speeds?

Just wondered.

[peters180a/170b]

I would of liked to see the ENGINE ....or atleast a picture of it...

[Benson]

Not your father's Model A engine!!

[marc hildebrant]

Why was a Model A block used ?

Marc

[Marcus]

Milton - Waaay COOL!! Thanks for sharing, and congratulations all around.......that was a SWEET sounding "A".......

[peters180a/170b]

Thank you the engine picture... it seem to be setup backwards ???? the back of the engine is in front facing the nose???? All from a original Model A block...

[Jason in TX]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

Why was a Model A block used ?

Marc

There are different classes and a class for Model a engines. I suppose he wanted to see if he could beat the record with a model a block

[MikeK]

A-mazing! Now I wanna see it done with model A brakes instead of a 'chute.

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by Benson

Does anyone know how many speeds the transmission is?

Seems from video that he shifts alot ...

What is Quick Change ratio?

Just wondered.

Benson

The item displayed in your avatar looks interesting? Is it a super charger?

Thanks

[Roadster62]

Just noticed that, my guess is a Robert Roof intake with two Winfields. Bob

Originally Posted by sturgis 39

Benson

The item displayed in your avatar looks interesting? Is it a super charger?

Thanks

[Purdy Swoft]

It appears to have a turbo charger connected to the header. It also has some type dual over head cam head.

[callcoy]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

Why was a Model A block used ?

Marc

Marc;

The car runs in a Vintage engine class, you have to run a factory stock block, this particular car runs in the streamliner class, other popular car classes include Lakester (belly tank, openwheel) roadster and coupe. I was at lunch today with the guy that just bettered his vintage Lakester record to 196.00 mph. Modern 4 bangers run over 300,with one car trying to better 350.
Callcoy

[Benson]

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

Thank you the engine picture... it seem to be setup backwards ???? the back of the engine is in front facing the nose???? All from a original Model A block...

I was told that the car is Front wheel drive ... that would explain the orientation of the engine.

Bill Kenz's streamliner 777 in the 50's had two flathead V8's attached to the front wheels and later a third Flathead was added driving the rear wheels.

This Friday I was talking with Cal Kennedy who drove one of the three push "cars" (actually he drove the 31 Model A with two flatheads, one in front and one in rear that went 140 MPH at Bonneville in 1949. Bill Kenz used the truck as a pusher after the streamliner was built.

Anyway Cal said that one of the problems they had after adding the third engine was that over 230 or so the airflow lifted the rearend enough for the rear wheels on the streamliner to lose traction.

Mr. Kenz made modifactions to the bottom of the body to get more downward force to keep the wheels on the salt, so the engine did not over rev.

Cal Kennedy said that there was a removable panel on the rear used to change the Quick Change gears which was removed and modified to increase downward force on the rear wheels.

777 Broke 200 in 1950 with two flathead engines and by 1957 was turning over 270 MPH with the 3 engine configuration.


http://www.chromjuwelen.com/de/netwo...onneville.html

[Flathead]

Ahyone know what the record is for a Model A engine that is still a flathead? Quite a bit slower I'm sure, but still curious.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by Benson

Not your father's Model A engine!!

Looks like a turbo to me with the exhaust tubes all going into the turbo ... I was told it makes 360 horse power with 9 lbs of boost. A fellow at coffee yesterday who was there at Bonneville said they were turning 6600 RPM going through the timing trap.

Quite sure there are some folks out there that know alot more information than this ...

[Benson]

Originally Posted by sturgis 39

Benson

The item displayed in your avatar looks interesting? Is it a super charger?

Thanks

It is an old manifold that Steve Becker found in his travels.

Carbs are Winfields (one updraft and one down draft) and as I remember it looks like it will fit an A block but no one has tried it yet. He was going to try it and see if it might fit. The stock exhaust manifold MIGHT get in the way.

The history of it is unknown.

It looks like a super charger from this angle but the Alum part is a 1/2 circle machined manifold.

The circular part is the Aluminum manifold. I will look closer the next time I go by the store to see if it matches up with an A or B block.

The fuel line should be pointing down as it looks to be made for a Model B fuel pump. Guess I got it wrong when I took the picture.

[Roadster62]

E.J.Kowalski holds that Record at 114.266 set at Bonneville in 2011. Bob

Originally Posted by Flathead

Ahyone know what the record is for a Model A engine that is still a flathead? Quite a bit slower I'm sure, but still curious.

[callcoy]

Originally Posted by Flathead

Ahyone know what the record is for a Model A engine that is still a flathead? Quite a bit slower I'm sure, but still curious.

Should be Greg Martinez from San Francisco, in a Lakester. I was told today he broke at Speed Week this year, I believe he has the record at 157.00 mph. on gas, around 154.00 on fuel. You don't have to run fuel to set a fuel record, holds the records at El Mirage too, watch him.

Kent Fuller has a streamliner, vintage flathead V/8 he says will be at Bonneville next year.

[MrTube]

My complaint is that is not in any way a "model A engine". A model A engine BLOCK yeah, but thats about all.

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by Benson

It is an old manifold that Steve Becker found in his travels.

Carbs are Winfields (one updraft and one down draft) and as I remember it looks like it will fit an A block but no one has tried it yet. He was going to try it and see if it might fit. The stock exhaust manifold MIGHT get in the way.

The history of it is unknown.

It looks like a super charger from this angle but the Alum part is a 1/2 circle machined manifold.

The circular part is the Aluminum manifold. I will look closer the next time I go by the store to see if it matches up with an A or B block.

Benson

Thanks for replying. I had to think about Steve Becker for a minute. Then It popped into my head- BERT'S MODEL "A". I always like dealing with Bert's. I think they are friends with Paul Talley. Paul sold me a 38 Chevy when I was in High School. I have not seen Paul for about 10 years. Paul and his brothers were always working on cars when I was a small child. His one brother bought a new 58 Edsel convertible with a continental kit. It was a pretty car. I think Paul lives in Cheyenne, Wyoming at the present time.

Al Satreelee is a friend that is building a 29 Model "A" roadster. He stopped at Bert's for some parts this spring. Al and Paul are about the same age. Al said Bert's was neat place to visit and enjoyed his shopping spree.

Maybe you could take some more pictures when you visit Phil and Steve.

[Peter J]

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I'm curious about the lower end. Stock A? What rpm's was he turning?

[Benson]

Originally Posted by Peter J

I'm curious about the lower end. Stock A? What rpm's was he turning?

Peter,

My source who was at Bonneville said at coffee that they turned 6600 through the trap.


My guess is that the crank most likely has 5 mains and re-enforced main caps, full oil pressure and such.

[Jim Brierley]

Joel Young from Phoenix ran 225 this year in his flathead Model T streamliner. Yes, flathead Model T!!! Aardema's engine started life as a Model A but his block has been very extensively modified. Joel's T has been 4-ported and has a 5-main crank with a bolted on girdle, a comparatively stock block. Greg Martinez holds the record in V4F/lakester, not sure if it was on gas or alky?

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

Joel Young from Phoenix ran 225 this year in his flathead Model T streamliner. Yes, flathead Model T!!! Aardema's engine started life as a Model A but his block has been very extensively modified. Joel's T has been 4-ported and has a 5-main crank with a bolted on girdle, a comparatively stock block. Greg Martinez holds the record in V4F/lakester, not sure if it was on gas or alky?

Could you post some pictures of the car and engine. Sounds interesting to me. It sounds like a model "A" engine, but you are calling it a model "T". Is the engine model "A" or "T"?

Bonneville is a great event and so different than other car events.

[callcoy]

Originally Posted by MrTube

My complaint is that is not in any way a "model A engine". A model A engine BLOCK yeah, but thats about all.

Bonneville Fast A’s
Jim Brierly gave you the low down on the 5 main girdle used by many of the guys running the lakes and salt. What he didn’t say is that he and his partner set the record in their class last year I believe, by going 163.00 mph. with 3 mains, babbit bearings and I believe a stock crank.

The gentleman in an earlier reply to this post had commented that these engines were not really stock. He is correct, but Jim and others like him have extended mostly stock to the current level, exceeding by a long ways what we used to think was unattainable. The improvements these people are doing have found their way into the rebuilds we use in our A’s today. Such things as improved oiling systems, filters, insert bearings; high compression heads and etc. are common place today. All of these ideas that did not exist when our engines were originally made are now available to add life and durability to our power plants.

Yes some of the guys have stretched the word stock block, but the vintage class is just for this and enjoyed by many who love the challenge, flathead V/8’s both Ford and Cadillac , Model A’s, Buick 8’s and others. The five main bearing approach has been proven to superior to three mains of the original Model A. The new stock appearing block and crank that Terry Burtz is developing incorporates most of what is mentioned above, including 5 mains and counter balanced crank. We will be able to enjoy greatly increased durability and reliability as a result of the efforts of the racers and suppliers such as Terry Burtz.

The head gasket problem we all experience is exaggerated when racing. An innovated approach that one of the record flathead 4 cylinder holders has employed is additional head bolt/studs. He has welded bosses to his blocks and heads that help seal the head gaskets. Ford didn’t get it right with the Model A (14 studs), tried with the new flathead V/8 (21 studs) and had to go to 24 studs finally to solve the problem that we all face. These types of experimentation, leads to possible improvements for us all.

While I have your attention, I would like to put in a plug for the MAFFI Museum. I am a board member and would like to encourage you to contact me about an easy way to raise funds for your museum. I have a no cost simple way for your club to be involved, it is so simple you will wonder why didn’t think of it yourself. Also I would like to remind you of the Museum Dedication Sept.15th Model A Day; I will be there and would like to meet you.

For those of you that will be attending the SEMA Show, I will be there as the Representative for MAFFI. John LaVoy of Model A Times and me along with two others will be in the Ford Motor Co. display with John’s Model A. With the A on display we hope gather some interest in our Model A Ford Museum from some of the manufacturers at the show. If you are in attendance please stop by and say hello.

[Peter J]

I'm not being sarcastic just curious but aren't we sort of starting to describe the old Offenhauser engines?

[Bruce Lancaster]

Clearly this is the most evolved Model A engine on the planet, but remember...DOHC, girdle-based 5 mains, specially machined everything, lots of attention to keeping all the smoke inside...all of that was happening throughout the '20's and '30's with T's and A's in sprintcars. This thing is part of a looong tradition, the proud American tradition of turning scrap Ford parts into insanely overachieving rockets. And remember...a T block went 200 not very long ago!