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Old 03-29-2011, 08:11 PM   #1
Milton
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Default Old cars with old tires

"tires older than six years get increasingly more dangerous regardless of how long they have been on the road."

I remember the quote above from a 20/20 program a while back. I have been rim straightening, painting and installing new Lucas tires on my 30A. Just today I checked the Allstate tire I pulled and discovered that it was 36 years old!!!

Now, by nature Model A's are not the fastest cars around but, most can do 60 mph, quit a few even more than that. Can you imagine a tire separation at speed? No thanks.

On a side note, I did the spare tire first and it was even older. When I finally got the tube separated from the rim I discovered a considerable amount of rust at the stem quadrant. I also noted previous painted-over rust damage in the same area of the next rim I did. So here is my tip: mount your spares stem up to prevent water from entering around the stem. As for me, I'm going tubeless.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I looked at a Cadillac several years ago and it was still riding on it's original tires. They were about 50 years old at the time and they were still holding air. That's nothing amazing about that but amazing thing was the then owner of the car drove it from Minnesota to L.A. California the previous year.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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... As for me, I'm going tubeless.
Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I have a Gulf Oil tire on my 30 coupe that it over 50 years old, still has the same air in it that it was pumped up with when it mounted. Not driving my A now but the tire still looks good with no cracks.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I drive on mine until they are gone. that is why I carry a spare. An old car weighing 2000 pounds is much easier on tires than a modern car at hiway speeds 70- 80 mph
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:39 PM   #6
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"Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?"

I am using the Lucas tires and removing the air bleeders located at the tire bead. As for the rims they DO NOT get media blasted, rather, I disk sand down the bead seat to metal and leave the old paint in the rust pits to allow for a smoother finish for the air seal. A touch of RTV on the 5/8" stems and soap up the tire. Once the tire is on the rim I use a tire belt to squeeze the tire until the beads contact the rim and then use a high volume air gun to expand the tire enough to seal it against the rim.

I decided to try this because one of the 36 year old Allstates was mounted without a tube and the long stems deteriorate rapidly at the base from ozone checking.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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"Where do you get 19" tubless tires and how do you get the rims to hold the air?"

I am using the Lucas tires and removing the air bleeders located at the tire bead. As for the rims they DO NOT get media blasted, rather, I disk sand down the bead seat to metal and leave the old paint in the rust pits to allow for a smoother finish for the air seal. A touch of RTV on the 5/8" stems and soap up the tire. Once the tire is on the rim I use a tire belt to squeeze the tire until the beads contact the rim and then use a high volume air gun to expand the tire enough to seal it against the rim.

I decided to try this because one of the 36 year old Allstates was mounted without a tube and the long stems deteriorate rapidly at the base from ozone checking.
I know guys that ride bicycles in competition. to save weight they remove the tubes, install a tubless stem and then put "Slime" in the tire to seal it.

Slime also sells sealant for tubes.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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I know guys that ride bicycles in competition. to save weight they remove the tubes, install a tubless stem and then put "Slime" in the tire to seal it.

Slime also sells sealant for tubes.
My first rim was media blasted and, after two days of brutal hands on combat with the wheel I was really contemplating the grandsons Slime supply, but the tire finally gave up in defeat and sealed to the rim.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I would still rather patch a tube then battle the epic battle you did.
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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I would still rather patch a tube then battle the epic battle you did.

The good part is, unlike a spouse, you only have to whip them once.
When I get the next tire I think (hope) it will go easier
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:57 PM   #12
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I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company.
Here it is, you be the judge.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4826897

I do have some reservations also because 20/20 likes to sensationalize their reports.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
The good part is, unlike a spouse, you only have to whip them once.
When I get the next tire I think (hope) it will go easier
Milton,
In the eventuality that one of your tubeless tires goes flat while driving (road debris/Murphy/curb rub/rim damage/whatever) where do you carry your "high volume" air supply hand pump?
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I watched the 20/20 link you put up, they certainly make a grim determination. The time limit seems a little arbitrary to me, but I am not an engineer.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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where do you carry your "high volume" air supply hand pump?
In the passenger seat next to me... or for a flat tire, in my wallet, with my jack and tire tools 1 800 400-4AAA.

The high volume is only necessary for the first fill. The principle is to supply more air than can leak past the tire bead. The tires are wrapped tightly and the beads are touching each other. Once filled and run the tire will stay spread out against the bead.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I was not aware that these rims had a safety bead either. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with your method.

I as well as another member had the tread separate from the tire. It is possible on old as well as new tires. It just made a lot of racket when the rubber banged into the metal but the tube inside the tire kept the tire inflated so that I was able to pull over and change to the spare.

An inner-tube patch kit is nice and small and fits under the seat. I like that you can break the bead easily with the tire spoon, pull the inner-tube out, fix the puncture, insert back in, and be on the road again in an hour. I think I'll continue to go that route.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

"I tend to question that 20/20 statement. It was probably in a press handout from some tire company."

very possible.

I'm running 19" Firestones on our Coupe that our old buddy Hoop purchased for his/our Tudor in 1991. he only drove them about 500 miles in 15 years and they were always parked indoors out of direct sunlight. since 2006 I have driven about half the tread off them, they are still nice and soft with no cracks or checks.

on the other hand, the Denman tires I removed from the Coupe (age unknown but likely 20-30 years) had no tread wear but were cracking badly on the sidewalls & between treads- could not get them off the car fast enough.

do whatever makes you feel safe
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Sadly, six years can go by very fast. Suddenly those new tires you "just" put on are way past the six years.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

You know, I wouldn't make any decisions based on what you see on 60 minutes or your local news. A lot of their "consumer safety" reporting comes from tort lawyers who are seeking publicity for their cases. Remember the Audi 5000 and Toyota unintended acceleration "scandals" that turned out to be BS.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I wonder if much of the problem is related to the current materials. The age issue never seemed to be a problem with the old made in USA tires. The old tubeless stems also seemed to last forever unlike the current issue which fails on a regular basis.

I recently replaced the 25 year old tires on my Mustang GT which showed no signs of cracking. The rubber had gotten hard enough for traction to be a problem with the GT engine. Did find a new OEM set USA made. No concern here about their age.
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Well I've got four fresh tires on the road and the beast part is the difference in the ride. It is amazing how smooth it goes down the road since I got rid of the Flinstone 19s. Nothing to say about the tubeless part, except the short stems look good, but I'll keep you posted.
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Model A's never came with radial belted 50, 60, or 70 aspect ratio low profile tires. It seems that when tire companies place a steel belt between the casing and tread surface, you end up with tread separation problems as shown on YouTube. Narrow bias ply tires do not exhibit this problem.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:28 PM   #23
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"Narrow bias ply tires do not exhibit this problem."

OK, I'll take your word on that. The main point I wanted to make was the flexability of the new tires versus the 30 plus year old tires that become rock hard over time.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:48 AM   #24
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Sun and Ozon-leaks do harm and make tires old and hard.
Being stored at the dealers or in the garage, they do not
grow old as fast ...

I never would buy a tyre being older that 2 years.
I never use tyres being older than 8 years.
Everyone getting used to "wooden" tires without notice..

If they collapse, its NOT a matter of speed!

About trailers in germany
In germany trailers are allowed to go 80km/h (about 45mph)
With spezial authorization (having shock-absorbers and brakes on
the trailer and keeping a certain towcar-trailer-weight-ratio)
you are allowed to go 100km/h (about 60mph),
BUT - Doing so and using tires older than 6 years, you will be punished !

best regards
Christoph

Im lucky that i survived 2 different tire-failures back in time
(loosing one good car - keeping the other by fluke) and i think
that new tires are a cheap life-insurance.

Last edited by Christoph; 06-08-2011 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Edit : Tires on my "A" are produced in 2009; Who else knows without having a look onto?
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:22 AM   #25
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

My old set of 40 year old alstates i now uses in the grade as seats there so hard that sitting on the top as if it was on a car the dam thing dosent even go flat me and my buddys call them leaners keeping your feet on the grownd and i just put my ass on them and lean back thats prity dam hard rubber haha.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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My car has a set of Sears Allstate 4.40/4.50/4.75/5.00/5.25x21, I assume they made those to fit alot of cars. They have been on the car since 1968 or 69 and they look like crap. I need to put a tube in one now but I keep remembering the battle with the 30+ year old Wards Riversides on my Model T and have decide to just put a new set on the car. I wondered how safe they could be, even with 10psi in the tube they don't go flat, must be petrified.

Regards,
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:39 AM   #27
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Smile Re: Old cars with old tires

My 13 year old grandson is running 30 year old tires on his 1928 model A roadster and without a driver's license, he doesn't even get out off of our 1/2 mile long driveway yet. His Model A is already equipped with one of the the latest pieces of safety equipment, an air bag for "just in case".
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Like reverendjim, when I bought my coupe, it had a full set of Sears Allstate and again, they looked terrible on the sidewalls. They had never however, been on the road. I got it started a couple of weeks after I got it, put some blankets where the missing seat belonged and took it for a drive or so. (real breezy without a windshield) Great ride.

Nice thing about living out in the country......

The sidewalls had dryrot as big as 1/16", maybe more. I have since placed all new Firestone W/Ws on it, but when I removed the Allstate tires, the tubes looked and felt like new. They had never leaked either. Keep'n 'em for spares.

The Allstate tires were from the mid 70's and it had been stored inside.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:46 AM   #29
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

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Milton,
In the eventuality that one of your tubeless tires goes flat while driving (road debris/Murphy/curb rub/rim damage/whatever) where do you carry your "high volume" air supply hand pump?
In my wifes purse, it's called hair spray and it works well if you're a good ol' boy. Have the phone numbers handy for AAA and the paramedics though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLtBo...eature=related
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:42 AM   #30
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About four years ago, I bought a 30 coupe. The tires on the car then and now are Sears Allstate. When did Sears stop selling these?
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:52 AM   #31
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I recently grabbed 3 "brand new" firestone tires out of a club members attic. She just gave them to me so I was grateful. I put them on the car, and 3 weeks later they had split in between the tread to where you could see the tubes. Happened on all 3 tires in the same areas. I'm guessing those tires had to be 30 years old. Said they were made in New Zealand. Had never been on the ground before...
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:58 AM   #32
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

This all reminds me of a lady who used to come into the Shell service station (remember those?) that I worked in in high school (1962). We would change her oil and lube her car every month, and, in addition, she insisted that we let the "old air" out of all the tires and put in fresh air. We shop boys would laugh behind her back, but our boss, an old-time service-oriented gas station owner (remember them?) said, "She's our customer. Do what she asks."

Incidentally, the service vehicle for that station was a 1930 Model A pickup, and one of the pumps was an old gravity feed glass-topped hand pumper.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Thought I'd post 2 pic's of a 19" tire that came on my barn find '31 PU. as the spare. It was last registered in 1967. Could this be the "original" Ford Firestone that came on the truck? It has surely seen many miles. The tube has been replaced at some point with a rubber stem tube, and leaks also. It says "Gum dipped" on sidewall. I keep this baloney skin on the truck for posterity sake only. A real spare is in bed of truck.

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Old 11-22-2011, 01:07 PM   #34
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Thought I'd post 2 pic's of a 19" tire that came on my barn find '31 PU. as the spare. It was last registered in 1967. Could this be the "original" Ford Firestone that came on the truck? It has surely seen many miles. The tube has been replaced at some point with a rubber stem tube, and leaks also. It says "Gum dipped" on sidewall. I keep this baloney skin on the truck for posterity sake only. A real spare is in bed of truck.
If not "original", it's got to be close...

I found a pair of 21" Model A wheels with mounted tires in an aunt's barn 30-some years ago.

One was a worn-out Gulf "baloney skin" that was as hard as a rock, the other was a U.S. Royal tire that still had the moulding "pips" on it (never saw the road), and was still pliable and held air.

I would not run either one if I could help it though...

Certainly, if the rubber is cracked enough that you can see the fabric carcass underneath, the tire should not be used, or probably even aired-up, to be safe...

As to when to replace "old" tires, that probably has a lot to do with how much and what type of driving you do... if you tour for long hours at higher speeds, then fresh tires are probably a "must", and will also likely get worn-out before they become petrified.

A trailer queen or local car that only does short trips / slower speeds can probably get by on older tires w/o incident, or at worst, a flat.

Similarly, if someone pulls an old car out of a garage or barn, and t is has older tires showing checks, it's not a good idea to take it and see how fast it will go... or "at what speed the old tires will fail"...
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

mass A man,

What size are the Firestone tires marked with and where were they manufactured ? Could you post photos of these markings.

Darryl in Fairbanks
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:39 PM   #36
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O.K. Darryl, your wish is my command--- All it says under the size is "made in USA". and the number "343". Under the Firestone "shield" logo and the words "gum dipped", it says "balloon". The other printing 180 degrees from that, is the name "Firestone" in huge letters. This poor baloney skin actually holds air for two days. Maybe I'll fix the tube someday, but I'm having too much "FUN" right now, changing out the front sub-rail extensions on my "slant" sedan.--Pete.

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Old 11-22-2011, 03:58 PM   #37
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mass A man,

I am certainly no expert, but the Judging Standards say USA made Model A's had USA made tires. And the tires are 4.75 - 19, no dual markings like 4.75/5.00 - 19.
Could be originals, someone else my know for sure. Thanks for the photos.

Darryl in Fairbanks
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Some more old tire's





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Old 11-25-2011, 04:46 PM   #39
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That Junior Atlas looks like it might have been re-capped, look at the "flash" above the word "Junior".

I have four Acmes like this one,except they are 5.25-21.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

I put about 60 miles on my old cracked Sears Allstate tires yesterday, didn't have any trouble but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried. I have a new set of blackwalls ordered.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:19 AM   #41
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In hindsight, thinking about what it must have been like in the 30's and how poor so many people were, I bet they didn't fuss over a little weather-checking or cracking like we do, they just drove 'em. If they were round and possibly made of rubber, they were good 'nuf.
Worse yet, gasoline and tires were rationed during WWII.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:22 AM   #42
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Default Re: Old cars with old tires

Chief, (my dad) years ago got 4 19" wheels with ROCK hard OLD tires. He piled them on top of a HUGE trash pile, lit it off, and burned the tires off and stripped all the paint simultaneously!!
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:27 AM   #43
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pathfinder?
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