No electricity. No crank. No horn

[modelLeaf]

Hi everyone,

I have a 1928 Model A. It's been sitting in my garage for one year now. When I tried to start it, there was no crank. I though the battery died, so I bought a brand new battery. After replacing the battery, I still hear no crank. In fact, the horn does not work. It's as if there is no electricity at all. But I am measuring 6V across these two points (red circles in the attachment) where I trickle charge the battery. So the battery is making contacts, but somewhere there is a disconnect.

I would very much appreciate if anyone can give me some suggestions on how I can debug this issue. I would love to take the car out for a drive this summer.

Thank you very much for your time,

George

[chrs1961815]

I woulf check that starter fuse and then check all of the connections and wires for breaks. Another thought would be to take a test light and go until you cannot get a charge.

[1crosscut]

What is the wire coming off of the starter connected to? Your picture doesn't show it and it is not the usual routing of where that wire would normally go.
Is it to a solenoid?
Your horn could just be stuck a bit from sitting for so long. Pull the back cover off and give the horn motor a spin with your finger while pushing the horn button.

[CA Victoria]

I had an older fuse block with a bad connection on one end. All looked well but tracing back with a VOM identified the fault.

[Ruth]

Whoa, let's backup a minute here. The fuse would have nothing to do with it cranking over or not. I would start by checking all connections between the battery and starter. It could be reading 6v even with a corroded connection. Once you get it to turn over, then check the rest of the electrical system.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

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Does anything electrical work, headlights, tail light/stop light, wiper if you have an DC wiper, dash light? Horn just may need oiling maintenance if other electrical things are working.



If you have starter switch voltage as indicated, remove the large lead on the starter switch, remove the switch, and short the lead to the starter contact. If it arcs/turns over the starter, probably switch issue.

[jrelliott]

Check the posative side of the battery to the frame connection. There are only two connections in this circuit, the one from the battery to the starter and the other from the battery to the frame. Is there a cutoff as the wire from the starter goes up and not to the usual routing to the battery under the floor boards.

[Badpuppy]

Check/clean the battery ground post connection to the frame. A voltmeter can read through the corrosion but not much operating current can pass through.

[katy]

Does the car have a battery disconnect switch?

[rotorwrench]

Polarity doesn't matter much to the starter but positive ground is normal for model As. The starter switch may be crusty. It's not hard to pull it and check the connections of the switch. If the switch is good, there may be a problem with the starter motor. Check the fuse for continuity through it by checking the buss connection for the horn and headlights on the generator cut out. The horn may need some lubricant or the grounding circuit to the horn button may have a problem.

The old cars always need some TLC after a long nap. The longer the nap, the more TLC they generally need.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by katy

Does the car have a battery disconnect switch?

I thought about that too, but he is measuring 6v at the starter. Perhaps something I do not understand, how could there be voltage at the starter if the disconnect with was off or bad?


Thanks

[ryanheacox]

Poor connections would give 6v at the starter but breakdown when any current was drawn. I recently replaced one battery cable end. I'd put the cable on the battery, tighten everything up, get lights and horn but when I tried the starter I'd get nothing and then no lights or horn. Pulling the cable back off the battery and cleaning the terminal would work sometimes but it was getting annoying, thus the new cable end.


In the OP's case, I would measure the voltage like you were while having someone else step on the starter. I'll bet it's dropping to 0 or very close to it.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by ryanheacox

Poor connections would give 6v at the starter but breakdown when any current was drawn. I recently replaced one battery cable end. I'd put the cable on the battery, tighten everything up, get lights and horn but when I tried the starter I'd get nothing and then no lights or horn. Pulling the cable back off the battery and cleaning the terminal would work sometimes but it was getting annoying, thus the new cable end.


In the OP's case, I would measure the voltage like you were while having someone else step on the starter. I'll bet it's dropping to 0 or very close to it.

Thanks Ryan

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by modelLeaf

Hi everyone,

I have a 1928 Model A. It's been sitting in my garage for one year now. When I tried to start it, there was no crank. I though the battery died, so I bought a brand new battery. After replacing the battery, I still hear no crank. In fact, the horn does not work. It's as if there is no electricity at all. But I am measuring 6V across these two points (red circles in the attachment) where I trickle charge the battery. So the battery is making contacts, but somewhere there is a disconnect.

I would very much appreciate if anyone can give me some suggestions on how I can debug this issue. I would love to take the car out for a drive this summer.

Thank you very much for your time,

George

George,
After looking at the picture the safety fuse(circuit breaker) is labeled 12V; I'm not sure what is required for a 12V conversion but you may want to start there.

[redmodelt]

Don't think it's a solenoid, you would have to press the starter pedal then a starter button for that setup to work. Might be a disconnect, which shouls be on the other leg of the battery anyway. If there is voltage between the points indicated in the photo, then what ever is not shown should be working. Could be a stuck bendix. If you have a hand crank, try cranking the motor over out of gear. If you can't, put in gear and rock the car back and forth.

[Bill G]

Maybe there is a hidden disconnect switch. The starter should crank when you press the starter foot switch. Also, when you get it running, be aware that the stock Model A has positive ground, meaning that the negative is what connects to the starter.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Would be nice to have more info, we are just guessing.

Is it 6 v or 12V, positive or negative ground, generator or alternator? Perhaps disconnect switch in the battery ground lead or located elsewhere, or located in the battery power lead to the starter and maybe under the hood?



Did he measure 6 v or -6v, Was the voltmeter negative probe on the head nut of the stater?



Pictures would be a plus.

[Jacksonlll]

You need to see if the engine will rotate. Put it in third gear and push it backwards. If the fan blade rotates, that clears the bendix. If it won’t turn, push hard rearward until you hear it pop loose.
Let us know where you are. Their May be a club near you that could get running. Good luck

[Bob Wright]

Here's a wiring diagram should give a better understanding of what to checkout.
Could you post a picture of the firewall, is the battery or a solenoid mounted there?

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

George,
After looking at the picture the safety fuse(circuit breaker) is labeled 12V; I'm not sure what is required for a 12V conversion but you may want to start there.

Fuses and circuit breakers do not really care if you are 6 volts or 12 volts. They just look at the Amps going through and blow or trip if too many.