1941 Ford springs.

[albjerryg]

I finally got to take my 1941 Ford out for a drive and boy it was rough. It looks like the shocks are new but something is not right with the front springs. If I press on the front fenders it has no real movement or bounce. I will post pictures that I have the are the best I could get with out jacking it up. Thanks for any suggestions...Jerry

[V8COOPMAN]

Hmmmmmm........It's pretty obvious that your spring is sprung! Seriously, your pictures show the spring to be flat, without any arch remaining in the leaves. The last picture shows the shackles extended outward to the extent that a flat spring can extend. For there to be any "bounce" with your situation, the physics would have to make the spring leaves angle UPward on the ends, and the shackles would have to move in an INboard direction. And with physics being what they are, THAT ain't gonna happen. Your spring needs replacement.......BAD! DD

[albjerryg]

OK thanks Jerry

[drolston]

The last picture reveals the problem. The spring you have installed is maybe 5 inches too long. The spring shackles are angled out a lot. They should be angled in by that much or more. Approximately 45 degrees. 1941 was a transition year for front suspension. I have an early '41 and the front spring perch shackles are about 41" apart, and the stock spring eyes are about 38.5" apart, with normal load on the front end. Maybe someone put the wider 42 - 48 spring in your car. The ride will be bad and dangerous.

[albjerryg]

Good I see about getting a new spring. Thanks Jerry

[Joe Immler]

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If the spring was the correct one for a '41 could it be re-arched by a spring shop? My 41's are not straight as yet but the sharp arch is gone.

[19Fordy]

Here's a partial photo of a garage find stock 41 Ford coupe front spring. Check out shackles angle. Spring looks a little "flat". Is it suppose to "bow" like that shape?

[Gary in La.]

That spring has lost all its spring. Looks to be very weak and has lost its arch.

[JSeery]

The shackle angle is very important on the earlier years, but with the addition of a pan bar the shackle angle is not an issue. The spring arch is.

[drolston]

No panhard bar on front or rear of a '41, making shackle angle important to safe handling.

With correct angled-in shackles, when the spring exerts an outward side force on the shackle, as in a turn away from that side of the car, the shackle must lift the car in moving outward. That opposing force counters roll and tends to keep the car centered over the axel.

With shackles vertical or angled outwards, side force in a turn will tend to lower the car on the outside of the turn, and increase movement of the body over the axel to the outside of the turn, resulting in less stable handling.

Long time ago, I put lowering shackles on the front of my '48 coupe, changing shackle angle to near vertical, and the front end handling got noticeably more squirrely. But it looked cool. Went back to stock shackles and put those big Goodyear Double Eagle whitewalls on the back to achieve the desired rake. Broke two axels and one drive shaft trying to lay rubber like it would with little tires.

[rotorwrench]

The local spring shop here in SA won't re-arch springs unless they can't fabricate them. It takes a lot less time for them to make one up than mess with an old one.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by drolston

No panhard bar on front or rear of a '41, making shackle angle important to safe handling.

With correct angled-in shackles, when the spring exerts an outward side force on the shackle, as in a turn away from that side of the car, the shackle must lift the car in moving outward. That opposing force counters roll and tends to keep the car centered over the axel.

With shackles vertical or angled outwards, side force in a turn will tend to lower the car on the outside of the turn, and increase movement of the body over the axel to the outside of the turn, resulting in less stable handling.

Long time ago, I put lowering shackles on the front of my '48 coupe, changing shackle angle to near vertical, and the front end handling got noticeably more squirrely. But it looked cool. Went back to stock shackles and put those big Goodyear Double Eagle whitewalls on the back to achieve the desired rake. Broke two axels and one drive shaft trying to lay rubber like it would with little tires.

For some reason I thought the 41s did have pan bars! You are correct the handling on a car with that shackle setup and no pan bar would be interesting at best.

[jimTN]

If you have a torch and rosebud, you can shorten that mainleaf by rerolling the eyes. A ford piston pin is the correct diameter to roll the spring for a stock shackle pin. Just cut a little off and roll the eye in. IMHO you also still need arch in your spring. If you can find a anvil, its not hard to rearch spring leaves with a short handled 8lb hammer.,

[Mart]

I may be wrong, but that setup looks right. Long spring, long shackles, sway bar in place. The early cars are pretty stiffly sprung. I doubt you would deflect things much by "pressing on the fenders".
If you stand on the bumper and start jumping up and down you might be able to get some movement.

It is a bit tired and sagged, but that would not make it stiff. The spring is straight, so the ends won't splay any further out. It isn't on the bump stops either, so that's not the cause.

Maybe get someone to jump up and down on the bumper while you watch underneath to see what is happening??

If it really is very stiff it may be something to do with the shocks.

It might be that it is ok but you are not used to it??? Don't know your background (no offense).

Mart.

[Mart]

Just found a thread on the hamb where the poster has made modifications, but states the original spring looked like this:


He also states it rides stiff.

A lot of people think the earlier shackle setup with them typically sitting at 45 degrees in this \ ---/ shape is the only setup ford ever used. That's not true, ford used longer springs in the later models to try and improve (soften) the ride. the sideways location of the earlier shackle setup was lost however and had to be compensated for by using firstly an anti sway bar and later on a proper panhard rod.

People also sometimes mistake the 40 style anti sway bar as a modern type anti roll bar. The modern anti rolls bar resists roll, but does not offer any sideways location. the ford design offers both roll resistance and (some) sideways location. It allows the use of the longer shackles as stated. It's not great though, and was replaced by the better panhard rod setup.

Sorry for repeating myself, I just typed it as I was thinking it.

here's the thread on the hamb.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...angle.1025214/

Mart.

[cas3]

you re-arch them yourself in a press. same way we reverse the eyes to lower it. take the spring apart and trace the shape on the floor with chalk. in reversing we would only do the bottom,main leaf, but here you may need to do another. so trace the shape, then mark off every inch on the leaf. now take a short piece of heavy channel iron and lay that on the press. i use an old empty generator case as they are quite strong, and press that on the spring every inch. keep checking your pattern, it takes time, but its free and you didnt drive any where. front A & T springs you can just bend in the vise to re arch them. its in the shop manuals

[Doughie]

That is exactly how my 41 looked before I added a reverse eye main spring and removed a few leafs to soften the ride. Also added tube shocks and had to remove the bar to make them fit. Car handles good and drives straight. A little squirrely if I hit a big bump or nasty manhole cover but corners just fine at "normal" speeds.

[fordor41]

when we got our '41 the f. spring shackles were almost vertical with 11 leaves. I read that Ford was trying to soften the ride with the longer shackles. the "sway" bar actually acts like a panhard bar with the way it's mounted to the king pin boss. I tried a panhard bar with the sway bar and it really rode rough. I believe the two were fighting each other. I used a modified '46 or '47 D.S. frame mount and attached other end of the sway bar to the P.S. shackle, I believe. Later Fords used sway and panhard but sway bars had links like shock links to the suspension.

[fortyonerag]

If you push on the fender of my 41, it's pretty firm. You have to jump on the bumper to get even a small movement out of it.

Still, I'm happy with the way it rides down the road. Helped by good seat springing.

Are you sure it is the correct spring? I think the 41 unit is a bit of an orphan