Best available ampmeters

[Larry Jenkins]

Many stories lately about poor quality ampmeters. I read some time ago that Brattons was persuing a quality vendor.

Who offers the best ones these days?

[DougVieyra]

If you can start with A&L Parts, it will be a good beginning.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Call Bert's for an original, or check ebay for a restored original by PHONCON. I hope I spelled that right.

[ocpd44]

Nothing better than an eight dollar ammeter. Keep one on the shelf for when you burn one up.

[C26Pinelake]

Follow Tom Wesenberg's advice for sure ! Wayneh

[mshmodela]

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I'm not fan of the repo ammeters --given that one I got the needle fell off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtRiZf_gV2Y

[ronn]

I'm not fan of the repo ammeters --given that one I got the needle fell off:



ditto!

[marty in Ohio]

I bought a repo ammeter from one of the suppliers and the needle also fell off. I called the supplier and they refunded my money and said to just keep the defective unit. They didn't want it back. One of my Model A buddies gave me one.
Marty

[ocpd44]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

I'm not fan of the repo ammeters --given that one I got the needle fell off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtRiZf_gV2Y

Been there, done that.

[jm29henry]

Go original

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Larry,

In sharing in your ammeter agony, I have no doubt that during the past several years, sanitary land fill areas in all 50 states have had quite a few "reproduction" ammeters discarded that were later found to be pure junk.

I look at it this way. Why does a Model A Parts Supplier continue to advertise very poor quality "reproduction" ammeters knowing full well they are junk?

In my opinion, it is similar to advertising "Wedding Cake Icing" and when one opens the can on the "Morning" of the Wedding when they "Need" the icing, they realize it is not icing .............. but the can is full of Chicken Crap ...... then, naturally ............. one immediately calls the Parts Supplier to complain, and the standard response is: "Keep the chicken crap ......... we will refund your money."

Next the buyer inquires, "Why do you sell these crappy ammeters?"

And the normal Parts Supplier response is, "Well, Model A people like you still continue to order them and only a "few" like you complain."

To further address Larry's above question, a sincere reply could always contain a descriptive P.S. like ................ P.S. : If one ever finds a compassionate Model A Parts Supplier who stocks reliable & non-hazardous "reproduction" ammeters, please let us "All" know !!!!!!!

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by P.S.

I just watched your video. The meter did not fall off. It is supposed to be like that.

FYI: Twas the needle that fell off --and the reason in the first place I had to open it... A needle falling off is not ideal and a sign of a defect. So yes the needle did in fact fall off and yes that was not shown in the video. And no thank you, I fixed it myself.. I still feel the repos are junk...

Regards,

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Larry,

Why does a Model A Parts Supplier continue to advertise very poor quality "reproduction" ammeters knowing full well they are junk?

In my opinion, it is similar to advertising "Wedding Cake Icing" and when one opens the can on the "Morning" of the Wedding when they "Need" the icing, they realize it is not icing .............. but the can is full of Chicken Crap ...... then, naturally ............. one immediately calls the Parts Supplier to complain, and the standard response is: "Keep the chicken crap ......... we will refund your money."

Next the buyer inquires, "Why do you sell these crappy ammeters?"

And the normal Parts Supplier response is, "Well, Model A people like you still continue to order them and only a "few" like you complain."

Actually, I am not sure that I agree with you on this Henry. I am not seeing it as the fault of the vendor. The vendors offer it because they know that if a customer makes an inquiry for one and they don't stock any type of ammeter, the customer remembers that the next time they want to order something.

Second, it is not the vendor's fault that they do not have a good unit to sell. 95% of all the Model-A vendors out there do not manufacture the parts. For the 5%(±) that do manufacture parts, for some reason they have chosen not to manufacture one. I have been told there is a vendor who is working on the project but nothing that I know of is completed yet.

So if the tooling & manufacturing start-up costs are $250k, how many investors do we know who would be willing to step-up and provided the capitol necessary to pull this off?? That, I'm pretty sure is why the vendors sell the junk ones!!

[700rpm]

>>>So if the tooling & manufacturing start-up costs are $250k, how many investors do we know who would be willing to step-up and provided the capital necessary to pull this off?? That, I'm pretty sure is why the vendors sell the junk ones!<<<<

I wonder if the whole thing would have to be retooled, or if the main fault could be isolated and corrected, and a new improved item could be made for a relatively small investment, perhaps even by another company buying the basics from the current mfgr and adding the improved materials? These do not seem to be complicated instruments, just ones that need careful engineering and assembly.

Isn't the one being made for the Model T a superior repro? What could be learned from one of those?

Maybe I need to get to work on this!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Per reply #13, if I operated a respectable grocery and "today" I only had "Stale" bread, I would at least have enough integrity to inform loyal customers that I have bread "today" ...... it is the best I can obtain ..... it is stale ..... and it will not be as good as fresh bread ...... rather than allowing customers to try to return stale bread ....... but everyone has different opinions.

[CarlG]

The only "local" bakery we had was an Interstate Bakery (WonderBread). When it closed in 2012, the only bread we could get was "week old" bread from Seattle and points south.

[updraught]

There was one on ebay a month or two ago. I first thought it was old but seemed to be new. About US$25.
The guywas selling other electrical meters. His handle was something like "d'Arsonval".
No Ford script. I err-ed due to the postage.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Per reply #13, if I operated a respectable grocery and "today" I only had "Stale" bread, I would at least have enough integrity to inform loyal customers that I have bread "today" ...... it is the best I can obtain ..... it is stale ..... and it will not be as good as fresh bread ...... rather than allowing customers to try to return stale bread ....... but everyone has different opinions.

HL, I have seen some vendors doing that with certain parts, the infamous repro light switch comes to mind.

There must be different suppliers of ammeters at different times. I've never had any trouble with meters that I put in my cars in the '70s and '80s.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi ecricr,

I initially called a Model A Parts supplier, (I think about (6) - (7) years ago), who said they were out of "new" ammeters; however, they reported that they bought them all from a Model A Parts competitor who furnished them to all Parts Suppliers.

Next I called their supplying competitor and ordered one.

After the needle fell off prior to installation, I called them to let them know.

The answer was, "Lots of people call to report that the needle falls off. We get them from one manufacturer in China and these are the best we can obtain; but, we are trying to find another manufacturer. We always tell people if you would like we can send you a refund."

I smiled and told them to keep the refund because I already threw the ammeter in the garbage ...... besides, I kept the original.

Quite honestly, I found this salesman's response quite humorous & felt sorry for them having a salesman who admitted that they sold Chinese Ammeters with needles that constantly fall off ....... a contrite attitude usually can make anyone smile.

[ocpd44]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Per reply #13, if I operated a respectable grocery and "today" I only had "Stale" bread, I would at least have enough integrity to inform loyal customers that I have bread "today" ...... it is the best I can obtain ..... it is stale ..... and it will not be as good as fresh bread ...... rather than allowing customers to try to return stale bread ....... but everyone has different opinions.

When the parts guy only charged me 8 dollars for the ammeter, I assumed it was of questionable (ie; stale). So, when I get the occasional one that the pointer falls off, it's no real surprise. I would rather burn up an 8 dollar inferior ammeter than a thirty dollar "quality" part.

The fact is, there is not enough perceived demand for a quality ammeter repro. That's why we have Chinese knockoffs.

Regards,

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by ocpd44

When the parts guy only charged me 8 dollars for the ammeter, I assumed it was of questionable (ie; stale). So, when I get the occasional one that the pointer falls off, it's no real surprise. I would rather burn up an 8 dollar inferior ammeter than a thirty dollar "quality" part.

The fact is, there is not enough perceived demand for a quality ammeter repro. That's why we have Chinese knockoffs.

Regards,

It takes quite a bit to "burn" out an ammeter. Sustained draw of more then 20 amps for a period of time. Other things would burn up first.

[DougVieyra]

Hearing of all the above reports regarding poor quality of today's amp-meters, makes me all the more satisfied with my 'affliction' of 'hoarding' all the various Model A parts that I collected in the 1960's & '70's. For what ever 'junk' that was accumulated back then, it seems that the 'junk' parts made in the 1960's were vastly superior to today's 'junk'.

All the cheap J.C.Whitney parts were at least made in America ! And all the second tier replacement parts sold by Sears, Wards, Western Auto, etc. were 'Made in America". And if not up the the top quality of the Ford Motor Company's original production, these after-market parts worked remarkably well. I am happy that I have these items now, even though I rarely have to resort to their use. The original Ford parts have held up exceedingly well.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Just in case anyone has a malfunctioning "original" ammeter, and would like to try to repair it, author Mr. Paul Moller, in Volume (2) of his "Model A Ford Restoration & Maintenance Handbook", wrote an article with a hand drawn diagram and photos on rebuilding ammeters.

[leo]

Keep looking on "Flea Bay" because occasionally you will find a NOS made in USA ammeter comes up for bid with it's original box. Not Ford but usable at least.

[msmaron]

Get a hold of Dan Bixby, he always has some original amps that are in perfect working order. GO original when ever you can..

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by msmaron

Get a hold of Dan Bixby, he always has some original amps that are in perfect working order. GO original when ever you can..

I agree.
I looked the other day for any ammeters on ebay, where Dan used to sell under the name "phoncon", but I didn't see any listed.

[SteveB31]

Back in the 80s, their was a great repro ammeter being made. Since then all of them are made by the same company in China. They are $8, and they are not very good quality. I sent some perfect originals , as samples to copy, to the same folks that make the APCO oil pressure and APCO temperature gauges that are now being made (also oversees), but of excellent quality. I spoke with them a couple weeks ago to see how the ammeter project was coming. He said they could make them, and they would be nice quality, but he had to make several thousand in the first run. So, if they would cost ,say, $30 each, and say they need a 3000 minimum first order, then someone has to pony up $90,000 to get them made. Now, to make a reasonable profit, let's say they retail for $45. Would you think they can sell 3000 of them?. These are the decisions that are made to make every part that is currently being made. The guy that may or may not want to put up the $90,000 is the guy that has to wonder if e can make his money back. Myself, Brattons, Snyders, Mikes, and even Mac's wrestle with these decisions every day. Many parts do not require such a large quantity up front, so the decision to make them is easy, but when you have to make a large quantity up front, on an item you may or may not sell, the decision to write that big check is not so easy.

Steve Becker
Bert's Model A Center

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Well, I just bought a reproduction of an Old Glass Kerosene Lamp. It DIDN'T have the gold, oval sticker, "MADE IN CHINA"---Instead, it had LARGE EMBOSSED LETTERS, on the bottom, "MADE IN CHINA"---I "guess" they were PROUD of it, but the chimney sits CROOKEDY????--The Dog is LAFFING!
Bill W.

[ocpd44]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

It takes quite a bit to "burn" out an ammeter. Sustained draw of more then 20 amps for a period of time. Other things would burn up first.

Exactly. And, when I first got my A, I had it down to the mechanic. He was positioning the car for a tow back to the house (it ran but wasn't drivable). When he shutnthe engine off, the cutout did not switch and, before we knew it, we smokedman ammeter. Since then, I learned about power fuses and installed one. Of course, the thing hasn't failed to cutout since.

Regards,

Jeff

[DougVieyra]

Thank you SteveB31 (post # 29) for helping us better understand the position that the makers of Model A parts have to undergo.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Thanks for your sincere response Steve.

And in your mentioning,

"They are $8, and they are not very good quality."

the one I received, (not from Bert's), was not the correct diameter and did not fit in the dash opening like originals ....... it was "far" too loose ...... it would have required substantial metal tightening shims to make it fit properly ...... in addition to the needle falling off.

The above manufacturing example you point out is a perfect example of a reality of Life where our U. S. citizens engaged in manufacturing have become fed up with our U. S. Government's Rules and Regulations with demanding "What We Cannot Do".

Then furthermore we are all faced with forever increasing taxes to waste on Foreign Aid to our Enemies .......... and then promising and supplying forever increasing FREE Welfare and Free Food Stamps to "Buy" votes from Lazy Citizens who have no intentions to look for work.

It is only very natural and far more profitable for U.S. entrepreneurs to have items manufactured tax free overseas and retail same here in the U.S. like the 95% or so of the Asian products we witness that is sold in Wal-Mart today.

Like with the reproduction Model A ammeters offered in 1980, our Crystal Ball used to be "CLEAR" in 1980 ............................ however, as we watch our paying mostly interest on our forever increasing 91 Trillion U. S. Credit Card Debt, our Crystal ball is just about 7/8ths full of Model A 600W Rear End Stuff.

Thank God we seniors lived in the best of Model A times and have enough good health to witness the remainder of what is left.