Primer Surfacer for PPG Concept paint

[Larry Jenkins]

For those who painted their As with PPG Concept, who's and what kind of Primer Surfacer did you use/recommend? Why?

Thank you!

Larry

[jw hash]

PPG K36 is my the one I use. and I have had O come backs.

[Larry Jenkins]

Originally Posted by jw hash

PPG K36 is my the one I use. and I have had O come backs.

Just read some bad comments about K 36. I don't want "space age" primer surfacer, just something that works without adding stuff.

When I did my first two As, I used acrylic lacquer and one-part Feather Fill.

Was just trying to get the latest, easiest way..

Larry

[old car guy]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

PPG K36 is the best filler-primer on the market. Also the most expensive.
Having said that automotive paint gets the best results in experienced hands, which may have something to do with the complaint you found about it.
A very acceptable alternative is Transtar KwikPrime #6441. O'Reilly's is one source.
As you know of course automotive painting involves way more than a gallon of paint and a spray gun.

Had a paint and body shop for over 25 years and k36 by far is a superior product. Just like a lot of different products you do get what you pay for. And if you know what you are doing the results will speak for them selves. The subsurface is no place to skimp on product or money. And how many times do you want to sand and reshoot your car. Once s hard enough, but to have to peel it all back down a second time is outright foolish. Just a opinion of someone who made a good living and not having any call backs due to inferior product.

[Oldbluoval]

I've always tried to use one manufacturer thru a process. For me, it is ppg; way over priced but way good. I don't use enough to cry over price. Not a production user.
Start out with dp, k36 etc.
Im surprised the feather fill didn't shatter. I had little luck with that product.

[Flop]

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k36 . listen to people who use the stuff every day .

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Just like when you hang WALLPAPER, read & follow THE INSTRUCTIONS for that particular product ! !
Saw an Old Mexican man fixing a sprinkler,--"You know what you're doing"?----"YEP, I READ the BOOK last night"!
Bill W.

[2manycars]

I ran a restoration shop for 25 years, and used PPG products exclusively. DP primer, K36 surfacer, and Concept top coat. Not a good idea to mix products, and never a good idea to put urethane over lacquer. It is like building a house on a swamp. you want a stable base if you want a stable result in the top coat.
Good paint is very expensive today, and that is a burden, but using cheap stuff usually produces poor results.

[bdave_mcc]

Originally Posted by Larry Jenkins

Just read some bad comments about K 36. I don't want "space age" primer surfacer, just something that works without adding stuff.

When I did my first two As, I used acrylic lacquer and one-part Feather Fill.

Was just trying to get the latest, easiest way..

Larry

If you want a good surface and adhesion to last you want something with a hardener/catalyst, period. I would never use a one part of anything...primer, paint, anything.
If you're trying to save money, PPG's shop line 202 2k primer will work. It shrinks a little but blocks out nice. You just need to give it a few days to cure propery before final blocking to prevent anything showing up in your basecoat.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by jw hash

PPG K36 is my the one I use. and I have had O come backs.

I also used K36 on my 1928 Sport coupe. That was in 2001 and 21000 miles ago. It still looks good.

[Kevin in NJ]

I used SPI undercoats.

Started off with the Dupont and PPG, but too many places indicated that SPI products were just as good and more economical.

I called and talked to the owner and he explained to me how he was offering basically the same products but more hobby friendly and lower cost. He does not have to support a network of dealers.
An example of why he is more hobby friendly is his epoxy primer. If I remember correctly he has a like a 7 day recoat window. Where PPG is 3 days or less (been a while since I looked it up). This means a weekend warrior can get by doing one operation on a sunday and finish next saturday.

I know when I use the SPI products it is clear he does not skimp on solids. It coats great.

[Larry Jenkins]

Originally Posted by forever4

Apparently you don't want any advice after all.

I wrote a two-part article years ago in the Restorer about how to prepare and paint your Model A.

Of course, it was all about lacquer primer surfacers and Acrylic Lacquer paint.

Yes, things have changed. That's why the "stupid" questions, Vince..

Larry

[Larry Jenkins]

Great responses, guys.. Old dogs can learn "new" tricks..

Larry

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've only painted a few undercarriage parts and one horn so far, but I sandblast the parts then sprayed DP 90 primer and top coated a few hours later with PPG 9000 black. Nothing has been installed yet, but the parts came out looking nice.

Was I supposed to use K36 somewhere?

[Curt Campbell]

I grew up in the auto body business and am an "anal perfectionist" (not always a good.thing!) about my work...first car age 12...I am 67 and still at it. I have used it all. The best advice I can offer has already been mentioned....do not scrimp on quality substrates. If you are unsure get some help...easier than redo.

Lots of decent products on the market. As a personal choice the last few years I use SPI products. I find them as good or better than PPG, Dupont, Transtar, etc. Personal choice only with excellent results.

Good luck

[Curt Campbell]

Oh....SPI = Southern Polyurethanes

[Tinbasher]

Southern Polyurethane Inc.s products are excellent. I use there complete line and have had great results. The prices are fair and work well. Very stable product. Everything works the way they advertise. Plus they have great Tech support. I have a feeling they may have bought into House of Colour products because the products work much the same. Even the Clearcoat sprays and smells the same???!!!

John Poole

[Bill Stipe]

Originally Posted by old car guy

Had a paint and body shop for over 25 years and k36 by far is a superior product. Just like a lot of different products you do get what you pay for. And if you know what you are doing the results will speak for them selves. The subsurface is no place to skimp on product or money. And how many times do you want to sand and reshoot your car. Once s hard enough, but to have to peel it all back down a second time is outright foolish. Just a opinion of someone who made a good living and not having any call backs due to inferior product.

I have a question for (Old car guy) that is when you use any kind of filler are you suppose to apply that on the bare metal or over the primed surface? it does build heat when it cures and some one told to me it can draw moisture between it and the metal.
Thanks
for any advice

[Curt Campbell]

These days I never put filler directly over bare metal...it goes over epoxy primer that was applied over properly prepared bare metal.. Today's fillers are great...I use Evercoat products such as Rage Extreme. Excellent products.

Remember, fillers should not replace metal work. I think its KevinNJ who has some good info on metal working on his site. Fillers are for skimming and block sanding to get surface perfectly flat. Not long ago a friend bought an older car body in primer. Owner said car was ready for paint. Not true. Found areas of cheap "bondo" up to 3/4" thick....applied over bare metal...and rusting and cracking on surface under the filler. Watch some of the custom car builders shows on TV...Like Overhaulin, Bitchin Rides, Classic Cars, and etc....can be good sources to see it done. Tons of YouTube videos also on internet. (NOT Gas Monkey Garage or Desert Car Kings). Patience and hard work are usually required.

[bdave_mcc]

I see some of you guys mentioning SPI products. Recently I've been looking into a small company comparable to SPI. Tamco paints out of virginia. They have a poly high build primer that is 65 percent solids and they claim zero shrinkage...I'll give it a try in a couple weeks. Any of you guys heard of them or used Tamco products?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Curt Campbell

Watch some of the custom car builders shows on TV...Like Overhaulin, Bitchin Rides, Classic Cars, and etc....can be good sources to see it done. Tons of YouTube videos also on internet. (NOT Gas Monkey Garage or Desert Car Kings).

Not so sure those are a good example to use. My mentor (Roy Pigford) who I worked for him & his brother during my high school years was a featured builder on the Overhaulin' show when they rebuilt Lance Armstrong's car. According to Roy, the quality and craftsmanship on that car was not to the level of what most folks believe they are seeing on TV!
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.
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On a separate topic, I have purposely not posted in this thread because my thoughts are only an opinion ....however I am curious why Larry is using Concept paint? Is it because you feel it is the best, --or for some other reason.

For those that are recommending other products, what did you use for a top-coat? If someone is using a different product because it is cheaper, did that person choose a cheaper line of paint for the finish too? Maybe the true question is, just how good do you feel the paint material needs to be?

[Larry Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Not so sure those are a good example to use. My mentor (Roy Pigford) who I worked for him & his brother during my high school years was a featured builder on the Overhaulin' show when they rebuilt Lance Armstrong's car. According to Roy, the quality and craftsmanship on that car was not to the level of what most folks believe they are seeing on TV!
.
.
.


On a separate topic, I have purposely not posted in this thread because my thoughts are only an opinion ....however I am curious why Larry is using Concept paint? Is it because you feel it is the best, --or for some other reason.

For those that are recommending other products, what did you use for a top-coat? If someone is using a different product because it is cheaper, did that person choose a cheaper line of paint for the finish too? Maybe the true question is, just how good do you feel the paint material needs to be?

Brent.. No good answer. I just want a nice paint job that emulates the original gloss level of the original Model As.

BC/CC systems are way too glossy and look strange (my opinion) on old cars.

Do you have any good advice? I am very open to suggestions in spite of other's thinking..

Larry

[Bill Stipe]

Originally Posted by Curt Campbell

These days I never put filler directly over bare metal...it goes over epoxy primer that was applied over properly prepared bare metal.. Today's fillers are great...I use Evercoat products such as Rage Extreme. Excellent products.

Remember, fillers should not replace metal work. I think its KevinNJ who has some good info on metal working on his site. Fillers are for skimming and block sanding to get surface perfectly flat. Not long ago a friend bought an older car body in primer. Owner said car was ready for paint. Not true. Found areas of cheap "bondo" up to 3/4" thick....applied over bare metal...and rusting and cracking on surface under the filler. Watch some of the custom car builders shows on TV...Like Overhaulin, Bitchin Rides, Classic Cars, and etc....can be good sources to see it done. Tons of YouTube videos also on internet. (NOT Gas Monkey Garage or Desert Car Kings). Patience and hard work are usually required.

Thanks for the info, I do have my repairs in primer with DP epoxy and yes the Evercoat products are good to work with I bought a gal this summer. sometimes in the metal work and welded area its very hard to get things close enough to where the K-36 primer will fill in enough so a little bondo works well.
Thanks again Bill

[Tinbasher]

Use the PPG line of products. Get the TECH SHEETS and read them through. You'll find everyone has their way that works for them due to the conditions and the cost they have to work with. I just finished a pair of Front fenders and had to strip them to bare metal as they had been done in Lacquer and cracked and the moisture went down to the metal. If they have of used Epoxy primer and urethane products the fenders wouldn't have needed to be done. Lacquer in this area only lasts 3 to 5 years. Urethane products 30 years.
A cost that could have been avoided using a different product.

My thoughts: John Poole

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by bdave_mcc

I see some of you guys mentioning SPI products. Recently I've been looking into a small company comparable to SPI. Tamco paints out of virginia. They have a poly high build primer that is 65 percent solids and they claim zero shrinkage...I'll give it a try in a couple weeks. Any of you guys heard of them or used Tamco products?

I would like to bring this thread topic back to the surface for a bit. On a social media page dedicated to "classic car paint jobs", I posed a question if anyone knew of an online PPG jobber, ...and some 24 y.o. clown made about forty-eleven comments in a row about PPG being junk and TAMCO was the only product worth spraying. Then a moderator of the group (--ironically also a Tamco dealer) came in touting PPG was junk and he had 30 years of being a 3-time certified PPG rep, so he should know. I just shook my head and deleted the entire thread prior to me 'un-joining' that page. ( I have learned there is very little knowledge to be gained from a social media group page!! )

So it begs the question in my mind, how is it that these small 'Mom & Pop' paint manufacturers (established less than a decade or so ago) are able to provide superior products over what these long established companies who have years of research and experience under their belt can do? I am not necessarily speaking price-point here at this moment, but when I hear that something is WAY better and WAY cheaper all in the same sentence, my past experiences typically warn me that some things are not as they appear. So what do we know that would suggest that companies like Tamco, SPI, et/al are equal to, -or superior to products manufactured by PPG, DuPont, Sikens, etc.??

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[Kevin in NJ]

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Across a number of boards (when I was looking a few years ago) I found a number of shops had found SPI products to spray on as well has the PPG's and such.

I will say I am not a very good painter so any of my opinions everyone should take with that in mind.

I have sprayed one cheaper primer and found it did not cover very good at all and was a pain to spray. I have used dupont and PPG and they both did well in coverage and spraying well. I have used epoxy, filling primer, surfacer, and top coat from Dupont and PPG.

I talked to the owner of SPI and he told me he keeps the same level of solids (cheaper paints less solids more coats needed) as the big boys. He also makes the stuff with hobbyiests in mind. So there are longer recoat windows in some cases compared to the big boy paints. So I bought some. They all go on well and seem to coat the same as the big boys paints.

How well do they work. Well that is always a loaded question. It always depends on how well you have done surface prep and such. I have found you can paint over rust with old crappy paint, sand it out, and put a top coat on that looks great. The part has been like that for over 10 years laying in a corner of my garage and it still looks great today. Put it outside who knows what you will have in a year. What I am getting at is painting really depends on how well the painter knows to do his craft.

I feel you can not really go wrong with using the SPI paints from a Hobbyiest point of view. Brent has a shop and a level of quality to stand up to with fairly high expectations. He loses money if something is not right and therefore must use the best paints and can not afford to mess around. Us little guys are likely to do something wrong in process that will mess up any paint and cause issues years down the road. That is just part of the hobby.

FWIW, I have no intentions of going into business painting cars cause I know I am not the best at it. Well I suck at it

[1928Pickuppain]

I've always sprayed ppg on any automotive, motorcycle related application (except my model a was one star DuPont was broke and needed it done) but on most things I've never had a problem use a epoxy primer base then do my bindi work than a filler primer on top then coat and clear. Again never had a problem until about three years ago I painted my 85 cj7 came out nice wet sand buff looked great then abou 8 months in it started looking like the clear coat was pitting like it had be very lightly sand blasted so I rebuffed and it didn't go away just got worse not terribly worse just a as if were the pits wore filled out deeper than before. So that was I I gave it a coat of mothers wax and said whatever is what it is. Then maybe 3 months latter the whole (red) jeep turned chalky white over the clear coat. I m still confused by it. If it turned Chaulky white right after I sprayed it I would have figure there was moisture in my air lines. But this was weird defiantly a product chemical problem it's almost like the top coat is oxidizing so Idk if ppg quality control has been going down hill? Not sure