Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2021, 03:32 PM   #21
Ivan in southeast va.
Senior Member
 
Ivan in southeast va.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portsmouth, Virginia
Posts: 303
Default Re: Engine dies

Snyder's sell a 2 rivet gas cap. Helps to keep the gasket from sliding around and blocking the vent hole.
Ivan in southeast va. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2021, 04:59 PM   #22
jayvee34
Senior Member
 
jayvee34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: St. Augustine, Fl.
Posts: 437
Default Re: Engine dies

Coils are not expensive, try a new one, could be that the coil is heating up and failing
after a period of time, and will run again after cooling down in a short period of time.
Just saying!!
__________________
IN GOD WE TRUST - SEMPER FIDELIS
John
jayvee34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-13-2021, 05:30 PM   #23
Gene F
Senior Member
 
Gene F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,917
Default Re: Engine dies

Try this...start it. Let a water hose run across the head trying to keep heat off the distributor. If it fails to stall: the condensor is bad, or the ignition switch cable needs backed out a couple turns. Tab in there grounds out as the metal grows with heat.
Gene F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2021, 07:47 PM   #24
Woodie1
Senior Member
 
Woodie1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: W. Mich.
Posts: 471
Default Re: Engine dies

I've used a meter to see when I have contact between the ignition cable end & the lower plate contact point. I'm starting to think I need to put new connectors on the ignition switch wires as well as a new dash wire set. The dash wires I think ate from the original restore in 1974. As many times as I've had the dash out over the years it could be those wires are strained.
Woodie1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2021, 09:32 PM   #25
Anteek29
Senior Member
 
Anteek29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Posts: 984
Default Re: Engine dies

Had 2 cars in the past that quit while driving. Traced the problem down to defective coils - intermittent. Think I said every cuss word while troubleshooting!
__________________
Alan
1929 Special Coupe
1941 Pick-Up
1955 Victoria
Anteek29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 01:09 PM   #26
Rob Doe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 469
Default Re: Engine dies

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Woodie,

You'll be right there in the terminal/junction box. I strongly suggest that you apply the November 1929 service bulletin (page 390 of the service bulletins). If you have never seen your ammeter flicker while turning the engine over (key on), the black wire on the coil negative post should be sourced from the yellow/black stripe wire, on the driver side terminal.

Many early wiring diagrams show this wire sourced from the passenger side, solid yellow wire. Being able to see the flicker in the ammeter will help with finding steady or intermittent spark problems as it tells you that the primary ignition circuit is or isn't functioning all the way from the battery to the grounding of the distributor to the engine head and back to the battery.

Good luck and please let us know the solution when you get there.
__________________
"It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!"
Rob Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 01:14 PM   #27
Rob Doe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 469
Default Re: Engine dies

A couple quick things that came to mind reading your current post:

In chasing down my recent issues, I found one of the studs in my terminal box was loose.

I found old splices in the shielded wire from the switch to the distributor.

I have recently read that often a failing switch can be identified by jiggling the key with the engine running or when cranking to start. If engine running try turning it off and if it goes off as you start to turn it rather that after your turn it (at the end of the distance) it may indicate a bad switch. This is true on aircraft switches as well and there, I have seen this 4 times in the last 50 years. One of those planes was heavily damaged in the landing on a road!
__________________
"It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!"
Rob Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 01:39 PM   #28
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Engine dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Doe View Post
A couple quick things that came to mind reading your current post:

In chasing down my recent issues, I found one of the studs in my terminal box was loose.

I found old splices in the shielded wire from the switch to the distributor.

I have recently read that often a failing switch can be identified by jiggling the key with the engine running or when cranking to start. If engine running try turning it off and if it goes off as you start to turn it rather that after your turn it (at the end of the distance) it may indicate a bad switch. This is true on aircraft switches as well and there, I have seen this 4 times in the last 50 years. One of those planes was heavily damaged in the landing on a road!
Yep, I had that bad repro ignition switch. I also once had a bad condenser that made the car backfire and run poorly. Top speed was only 20 to 25 MPH due to such a weak spark from the bad condenser.

I switched my 28 Phaeton coil feed wire to the driver's side of the terminal box about 12 years ago. This not only let me see if the points are working OK, but will show if you accidentally leave the key on with the engine stopped and the points closed. It doesn't take long to burn up a coil by doing this.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 05:07 PM   #29
Rob Doe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 469
Default Re: Engine dies

Woodie,


I thought of another quick check, if you have safety fuse wired next to the starter, put a new fuse in it. And the fuse holder can also work loose at the rivets to create an intermittent failure. Make a jumper and by pass it to the junction box if necessary.
__________________
"It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!"
Rob Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 05:30 PM   #30
Gene F
Senior Member
 
Gene F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,917
Default Re: Engine dies

I had my wire in my electrolck armoured cable melt within and short out once. But that does not act intermitenetly.

Last edited by Gene F; 07-16-2021 at 05:40 PM.
Gene F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 06:34 PM   #31
[email protected]
Senior Member
 
modela@aol.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 730
Default Re: Engine dies

Here were some head scratching intermittent failures I have witnessed on some past tours.
1. A dime sized foil seal off of a bottle of Heet was acting like a flapper valve in the gas tank outlet. Sometimes stopping fuel flow.

2. The disti flag tab on a condenser broke its spot welding attachment to the metal can. It was loose connection then but it looked perfect to a visual check.

3. A brand new repro ignition cable had a plastic insulator where it goes into the disti. The plastic got warm enough for the spring to melt into this insulator. Therefore causing the issues of initially stalling and then not restarting at all.
modela@aol.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 06:38 PM   #32
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,002
Default Re: Engine dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodie1 View Post
We have a model A that the engine dies on while driving. It is a new rebuild that has about 750 miles on it now. At first when I got it back it was hard to start. I eventually figured where spark & throttle had to be to get it to start. Last week while on tour it died about 8 times. Did so on another day also. It acts like the gas has been shut off. Once it dies it seems like the only way to get it to run again is for it to be pushed & pop the clutch. This morning I checked the gas flow out of the shut off & it looked good. I pulled the gas line to the carb & it looked good. I checked the carb to manifold bolts for tightness, good. I checked the manifold nuts & they were good. It cranks good once it dies, it just refuses to start. Club members checked the spark while I cranked the engine with the starter & they said there was spark. It just seems to be lack of gas. I also blew air through the vent in the gas cap. I'm lost at this point & afraid to take it out again. More ideas would be appreciated.
be careful of engine rebuilds. Many people out there don't know what they are doing. I know a guy that had his v8 rebuilt and afterwards he was only able to drive at 15 mph.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 06:39 PM   #33
[email protected]
Senior Member
 
modela@aol.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 730
Default Re: Engine dies

Thought of another past head scratcher to share.

Harbor Freight AG glass fuses that look good but are not connected well internally. Once again they pass visual inspections….
modela@aol.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2021, 09:10 PM   #34
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Engine dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thought of another past head scratcher to share.

Harbor Freight AG glass fuses that look good but are not connected well internally. Once again they pass visual inspections….
No more free stuff and no more 20% coupons has left the local H/F store very empty. I don't see how they will stay in business. I have had good luck with their tools though. Someone stole my aluminum floor jack, so I went back to see if I could buy another one. The one they now sell is twice the price and not half as good as the one I bought 5 years ago.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 01:28 AM   #35
Skeezixx
Senior Member
 
Skeezixx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 426
Default Re: Engine dies

I left my key on once with the points closed and the coil got so hot I couldn't touch it. I let it cool down for a couple of hours and the car started right up.

I drove for about 5 blocks and it quit. I had to walk home and retrieve another coil. I installed it on the side of the road and no more problems.
Skeezixx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 06:51 AM   #36
nkaminar
Senior Member
 
nkaminar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 3,820
Default Re: Engine dies

I ran out of gas once and the car quit. But I don't thing that is Woodie's problem.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
nkaminar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 07:20 AM   #37
Rob Doe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 469
Default Re: Engine dies

Woodie,

I just reread all that is here. Where do we stand?

Paul Shinn on YouTube has a video on clearing the fuel line.

How to drain a Ford Model A fuel tank & clear the fuel line

Paul shows us how to blow on the fuel line to solve some of the restrictions mentioned above.

If the car starts after clearing the line, then you need a "pencil" shaped screen in the top of the gas shutoff valve at the bottom of the tank. Old timers such as one of my good friends made his own back in the day by drilling tiny holes in a piece of copper tubing. 90 year old terne plate coated steel gas tanks have rust in them. The rust happens mostly when cars sit... like yours.

Your coil can be tested on the car. Use an ohmmeter across the - and + primary contacts. Should measure 1.4, 1.5?? ohms. Check from center post (secondary circuit) to either primary post on higher setting. Should measure 8,000 to 12000??
It could still fail when warmed up. That's why you test the spark immediately when car dies.

I bought a new distributor for my car. There were several things in my distributor that were just plain worn out. The buss was filthy and had bends in it, the fiber washer was missing and the screw was too long, the shaft had a lot of vertical play due to missing parts. (allowing possible points to jump up and down). And still there was more.

But even the new distributor had to be checked over. Parts were all new, but connections weren't tight, points block wasn't tight and points were not set etc.

Come back at us with an update, please.
__________________
"It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!"
Rob Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 07:27 AM   #38
Rob Doe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 469
Default Re: Engine dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeezixx View Post
I left my key on once with the points closed and the coil got so hot I couldn't touch it. I let it cool down for a couple of hours and the car started right up.

I drove for about 5 blocks and it quit. I had to walk home and retrieve another coil. I installed it on the side of the road and no more problems.

The best friend I ever had was nicknamed Skeezix. I think I may have burned my coil out the same way recently.
__________________
"It ain't what you know for certain that gets ya in trouble. It's what ya know for certain that just ain't so!"
Rob Doe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 08:07 AM   #39
Neshkoro
Senior Member
 
Neshkoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 101
Default Re: Engine dies

I'm and old car guy but a newby to the Model A's. I bought mine last year. It's a learning experience, that's for sure. I was having similar problems with keeping it running. One day I backed it out of the garage and it died right there. I spent a couple of hours getting it running again to get it back into the garage. It turned out to be two different problems. The first problem was the coil. While it was cold it worked fine. As the coil warmed up, it failed. That's easy to check with a multimeter. Or just go buy a new one. They're cheap enough.
The second problem was the small wire hidden inside the distributor between the 2 plates. It was frayed and shorting out sometimes. Easy to fix. sometimes difficult to find.
If you could drive it for 10 minutes and then have a problem, I'd check the coil.
Just change one thing at a time.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Good luck.
Neshkoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 09:48 AM   #40
burner31
Senior Member
 
burner31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Shawnee, Ok
Posts: 3,471
Default Re: Engine dies

Had a seemlier problem, turned out to be the ignition switch
__________________
Keith
Shawnee OK
'31 SW 160-B
burner31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 AM.