Water vs Antifreeze

[pat in Santa Cruz]

some time ago I read (either here or on ahooga) that modern rust inhibitors had been environmentalized, and were no longer very effective. Subsequent use by myself demonstrated to me that they no longer prevented rust very well. I started to use 50/50 Propylene Glycol ( e.g. Sierra and others). While Ethylene Glycol is a bit cheaper, its poisonous to pets (who like the flavor), to fish and children who might drink it. It is sweet, and looks like lime Kool Aid. . Propylene is non toxic, and does not foam in an unpressurized system. I have had no more rust issues since.

Water cools better, but any A with a good radiator should cool easily in any heat conditions. If yours is too hot, there is a problem somewhere. A's originally were very cool running engines.

[A-Jay]

Another option here is Water Wetter by RED LINE its not an antifreeze but a rust inhibitor and it also lubricates. One bottle is plenty for a 2 1/2 -3 gallon cooling system. Its a little pricey at 9-10 dollars and is available at most auto parts places maybe even Walmart. Check out the DEMO bottom left of the link.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10

[Duffy1]

Hicktick ;

I do not have an over heating problem . I have a copper head gasket that is seeping between # 3 & # 4 cylinder next to the starter . One of the gurus in our model A club said antifreeze will cause copper head gaskets to seep . I have been running 50/50 mix antifreeze . When I drained out after one month it was very rusty . I am beginning to wonder if you can slow down this rust .
Thanks the response.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

Hicktick ;

I do not have an over heating problem . I have a copper head gasket that is seeping between # 3 & # 4 cylinder next to the starter . One of the gurus in our model A club said antifreeze will cause copper head gaskets to seep . I have been running 50/50 mix antifreeze . When I drained out after one month it was very rusty . I am beginning to wonder if you can slow down this rust .
Thanks the response.

Have you re-torqued the head bolts SEVERAL times, COLD? They do "settle" some after running.
Bill W.

[blgitn]

[QUOTE=A-Jay;448298]Another option here is Water Wetter by RED LINE its not an antifreeze but a rust inhibitor and it also lubricates. One bottle is plenty for a 2 1/2 -3 gallon cooling system. Its a little pricey at 9-10 dollars and is available at most auto parts places maybe even Walmart. Check out the DEMO bottom left of the link.

I can vouch for water wetter; my Hudson runs hot on ethanol-laced fuel and water wetter helps quite a bit. I haven't had to use it in my Fords tho. I run thermostats and good radiators.

R/ Roger.

[steve s]

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[QUOTE=blgitn;448622]

Originally Posted by A-Jay

Another option here is Water Wetter by RED LINE its not an antifreeze but a rust inhibitor and it also lubricates. One bottle is plenty for a 2 1/2 -3 gallon cooling system. Its a little pricey at 9-10 dollars and is available at most auto parts places maybe even Walmart. Check out the DEMO bottom left of the link.

I can vouch for water wetter; my Hudson runs hot on ethanol-laced fuel and water wetter helps quite a bit. I haven't had to use it in my Fords tho. I run thermostats and good radiators.

R/ Roger.

Hey, Roger. I love that photo in your avatar. I saw it many years ago in presentation Charlie Yapp made, and haven't ever seen it anywhere else. I've tried to talk him into using it on his Secrets of Speed t-shirts, etc. Could you post a full size copy?

Thanks!

Steve

[pat in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

Hicktick ;

I do not have an over heating problem . I have a copper head gasket that is seeping between # 3 & # 4 cylinder next to the starter . One of the gurus in our model A club said antifreeze will cause copper head gaskets to seep . I have been running 50/50 mix antifreeze . When I drained out after one month it was very rusty . I am beginning to wonder if you can slow down this rust .
Thanks the response.

perhaps instead of rusting with 50/50 antifreeze, it has so much old rust already in the block and radiator that it contaminates the mix. I had problems with water wetter rusting after a few months. I don't think the inhibitors in it last long. But with 50/50, its been clean over a year now. Did you try flushing the block and radiator till the water runs clean before you put 50/50 in it?

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by brokenspoke

H and H built my engine and they said not to use antifreeze

Hatchet & Hammer?

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by brokenspoke

H and H built my engine and they said not to use antifreeze

Forever or just for break in? Some rebuilders (I don't know about H&H) put in Bars stop leak just in case. I've read that some antifreeze will eat the babbit so during break in and with bars stop leak in the system one runs water only to seal the system and then switch over to the soultion of your choice.

[blgitn]

[QUOTE=steve s;448702][QUOTE=blgitn;448622]

Hey, Roger. I love that photo in your avatar. I saw it many years ago in presentation Charlie Yapp made, and haven't ever seen it anywhere else. I've tried to talk him into using it on his Secrets of Speed t-shirts, etc. Could you post a full size copy?

Thanks!

Steve



Steve,

Sadly, I don't have one. I saved it from another avatar a while back. Does anybody out there have a larger copy? I'd love make a print to hang in the shop.

R/ Roger.

[Clydes 31 P/U]

I use this flusher every 2 yrs. 50lbs air through the block 5lbs through the radiator in each direction til the water runs clear, the short bursts of air and water mix really losen up the crud. Personally I use 50/50 anti freeze in mine

[ronn]

Fact-water is thicker then antifreeze.
Had 2 different cars with head leaks with anitfreeze. A model A and a 51 chevy.
Removed the antifreeze and put in pure water-no more leaks. Of course in NJ we must have
antifreeze in the winter or drain our systems out for the season.

[jrapose]

To prevent rust in water you use soluable oil...same thing as machinests use in cooling machine tools (lathe cooling water) you can buy it in gallons, but you only need a cup in the radiator of water...will be turn the water white, works really well but does not prevent freezing....also will not damage paint if blown out or spilled.
Sold in small quanitys as water pump lube..but inexpensive as machinests lube.

To seal a block you use sodium silicate...(water glass) a product used by truckers to seal cracked blocks, also egg farmers to seal egg shells.... works much better than Bars Leak..

Joel Rapose
45 years driving Model A fords..
One has a 65hp diesel mounted to stock running gear...45mpg. same torque as stock B motor.
Disk brakes on front of that car... using stock 19" wheels.. not noticable and dies not change width....but lots of machine work required. Using deep offset rotor hats to center the rotor directly in line with spindle...no pull... ( Sazuki Samari)
Professor of Technology Oxnard College (retired)

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Forever or just for break in? Some rebuilders (I don't know about H&H) put in Bars stop leak just in case. I've read that some antifreeze will eat the babbit so during break in and with bars stop leak in the system one runs water only to seal the system and then switch over to the soultion of your choice.

How does antifreeze get on the babbit?
I have used Sierra brand antifreeze and it doesn't foam.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I've read that some antifreeze will eat the babbit

And that just may be the reason H&H doesn't want antifreeze in their lead/solder repaired cracked blocks.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

How does antifreeze get on the babbit?
I have used Sierra brand antifreeze and it doesn't foam.

If the head gasket leaks then the coolant leaks past the rings and into the dip tray to be picked up by the rod scoops. A guy in our club lost his new babbit job when he removed the nut holding the popout cable and left it off overnight.

[rodnut1]

Yes, plain water definately cools better than an antifreeze mix. Also, the water used in a cooling system should be reverse-osmosis distilled, or use 'drinking water' found in the jugs at your local store. DO NOT use steam distilled water as it contains no minerals and will erode your cooling system! To the water should be added a quality corrosion inhibitor in proper amounts. I use NoRosion HyperCool, good stuff. Corrosion ihibitor, a water wetter and water pump lubricant all in one bottle. Of course if you're going to be driving in wind-chill or freezing weather, antifreeze will be required. But not many A owners really like motoring around in the freezing cold..

[marc hildebrant]

O.K., please explain why water with no minerals will rust ?

Marc

[steve s]

Originally Posted by rodnut1

... Also, the water used in a cooling system should be reverse-osmosis distilled, or use 'drinking water' found in the jugs at your local store. DO NOT use steam distilled water as it contains no minerals and will erode your cooling system! .....

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

O.K., please explain why water with no minerals will rust ?

Marc

I too would like to see the data, or even a coherent theory, supporting this. I suspect it's one of those urban legends that will never be extinguished. Based on all of the chemistry I am aware of, it makes no sense; corrosion is an electrolytic process, and any added ions in the water can only aggravate the condition, it seems to me. Antifreeze manufacturers recommend using distilled water for diluting their product--some sort of conspiracy, I suppose?

Steve

[n4yhd1]

What specific Bar's Leak product are you using?