The Ford Barn

Vanspeed · 08-25-2016, 06:50 PM

Today I was looking around in the Internet and saw a little gizmo for adjusting brakes. I designed one from a picture and gave it to our CNC operator and he wipped one out in no time. I adjusted it according to what I read on line and the brakes are very very good now. Only issue I found was my front brakes lock up when the brake lever is at zero degrees, I know it should be at 15. The brakes work excellent in my opinion, but should I dive in to the front to see where the wear is? Hard to believe my push pins are that worn. How much better would they be if I was at 15 degrees? I think I will take a look but for what this cost - zero, it gave my A great pedal and rear brakes that lock up evenly and the car stops excellent.

wmws · 08-25-2016, 07:56 PM

The 15 degrees is when the brakes are off. When the brakes are on hard the lever will move back to 0 degrees or vertical.

wmws · 08-25-2016, 07:57 PM

BTW I love the patina on you car. It looks about like mine.

tbirdtbird · 08-25-2016, 09:10 PM

by the time you are at zero° you have used up any and all mechanical advantage. (you will be 'over-center')
If the brakes are done correctly, at rest the lever should be about 15° and that won't diminish much under 10° with a hard stop.

There are many places for mechanical brakes to wear. A few thousandths here and there adds up quickly. For your safety, it is time for an overhaul, which will last for many years

Barber31 · 08-25-2016, 09:23 PM

So... No.1 what brake lever are y'all talking about? Pedal? Cross shaft? Actuating arm?
No.2 How are y'all figuring out the degrees on this lever?

tbirdtbird · 08-25-2016, 10:14 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

have you set up Model A brakes before?

Tiny · 08-25-2016, 11:13 PM

Mine lock up no problem I didn't need the board. The trick is getting all the "slack out of the system

larrys40 · 08-25-2016, 11:35 PM

As Tbird stated you will find no mechanical advantage or ability on the lever at 0, so if it is at that point you probably need some restoration and rebuilding of the system. You might think and I'm sure they probably do stop better than they did... but can you lock them up at 45? Do they pull, or fade on a good brake? The cast iron drums do a lot to help firm braking, but restoration of the entire system and attention to detail at each point is what it takes, Welding and machining roller tracks ( I prefer to NOT replace them, but to restore the original tracks). replacing bushings, of course religning, arcing shoes to good drums, all pivot points and pins restored as new. and of course proper adjustment.

Having done many "A" brake jobs and being one of my specialties it is a lot of work... most folks don't really do it all... and of course don't have as good a brake as they could. I recommend if you can get a copy of the Brake rebuilding seminar by Lloyd Kerr " How to Stop on a Dime". It is excellent and shows exactly what to do and what it takes.

Larry Shepard

Vanspeed · 08-26-2016, 06:20 AM

I took it around the block and hit the brakes hard at about 40 mph and the rear brakes locked up and the car does not swerve or pull, everything was straight. This car is a survivor and I have never been into the brakes because they always worked pretty well. Just this past year the pedal started to go further to the floor. I will open up the front brakes during the winter.

RonC · 08-26-2016, 09:41 AM

The Ford Service Bulletins have a very detailed factory recommended brake adjustment proceedure. It explains how to adjust the brake rods

wmws · 08-26-2016, 11:13 AM

Locking up the rear brakes is easy. It is locking up the front or nearly locking them that will really stop the car. The 15 degrees forward angel on the front lever is so any slop or movement between the shoes and the drum will still not let the lever go past 0 degrees or vertical. Vertical is where you would get maximum mechanical advantage. Try really pushing hard on the peddle. If the lever does not go past vertical your good.

Barber31 · 08-26-2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

have you set up Model A brakes before?

If you're talking to me Tbird, yes. I just completely rebuilt my whole system. Roller tracks and all. I loosely tightened things up enough for them to work while I move my chassis around but the body is not yet installed on the frame. I'll do the correct adjustments once it is all assembled. I know what lever y'all are referring to now.

Patrick L. · 08-26-2016, 01:41 PM

I'm one that uses a brake board.
I see no mention of just how the brakes were adjusted.
First the wedges need to be adjusted so the brakes drag ever so slightly. [ Then I leave them alone]
Second I adjust the rods to get the adjustments on each wheel where I want it.
So, if that is what has been done, then it sounds as if the fronts should be brought up a little more. And, again, I do that with the rod length. That may also help with your 0º issue.
I don't have a big problem with the arms going to 0º, but, not back any farther than that. But, they really shouldn't go that far. They should go from the 15º to the 10º-05º range when fully applied.
How far are the rear arms moving ? From what you say it appears they are going from 15º to about the 10º range. The fronts should be fairly close to that.
I hate to say this, but, I'm compelled. When doing this the car needs to be supported by the axle and not the frame.

08-25-2016, 06:50 PM	#1
Vanspeed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Suttons Bay, Mich. Posts: 3,386	Brakes...... Today I was looking around in the Internet and saw a little gizmo for adjusting brakes. I designed one from a picture and gave it to our CNC operator and he wipped one out in no time. I adjusted it according to what I read on line and the brakes are very very good now. Only issue I found was my front brakes lock up when the brake lever is at zero degrees, I know it should be at 15. The brakes work excellent in my opinion, but should I dive in to the front to see where the wear is? Hard to believe my push pins are that worn. How much better would they be if I was at 15 degrees? I think I will take a look but for what this cost - zero, it gave my A great pedal and rear brakes that lock up evenly and the car stops excellent. __________________ *Respecting and Resurrecting Ford Model A's.*

08-25-2016, 07:56 PM	#2
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: Brakes...... The 15 degrees is when the brakes are off. When the brakes are on hard the lever will move back to 0 degrees or vertical.

08-25-2016, 07:57 PM	#3
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: Brakes...... BTW I love the patina on you car. It looks about like mine.

08-25-2016, 09:10 PM	#4
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Brakes...... by the time you are at zero° you have used up any and all mechanical advantage. (you will be 'over-center') If the brakes are done correctly, at rest the lever should be about 15° and that won't diminish much under 10° with a hard stop. There are many places for mechanical brakes to wear. A few thousandths here and there adds up quickly. For your safety, it is time for an overhaul, which will last for many years __________________ '31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 08-25-2016 at 10:15 PM.

08-25-2016, 09:23 PM	#5
Barber31 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 687	Re: Brakes...... So... No.1 what brake lever are y'all talking about? Pedal? Cross shaft? Actuating arm? No.2 How are y'all figuring out the degrees on this lever?

08-25-2016, 10:14 PM	#6
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Brakes...... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) have you set up Model A brakes before? __________________ '31 180A

08-25-2016, 11:13 PM	#7
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: Brakes...... Mine lock up no problem I didn't need the board. The trick is getting all the "slack out of the system __________________ Blackwall Panthers Nor Cal chapter

08-25-2016, 11:35 PM	#8
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Brakes...... As Tbird stated you will find no mechanical advantage or ability on the lever at 0, so if it is at that point you probably need some restoration and rebuilding of the system. You might think and I'm sure they probably do stop better than they did... but can you lock them up at 45? Do they pull, or fade on a good brake? The cast iron drums do a lot to help firm braking, but restoration of the entire system and attention to detail at each point is what it takes, Welding and machining roller tracks ( I prefer to NOT replace them, but to restore the original tracks). replacing bushings, of course religning, arcing shoes to good drums, all pivot points and pins restored as new. and of course proper adjustment. Having done many "A" brake jobs and being one of my specialties it is a lot of work... most folks don't really do it all... and of course don't have as good a brake as they could. I recommend if you can get a copy of the Brake rebuilding seminar by Lloyd Kerr " How to Stop on a Dime". It is excellent and shows exactly what to do and what it takes. Larry Shepard

08-26-2016, 06:20 AM	#9
Vanspeed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Suttons Bay, Mich. Posts: 3,386	Re: Brakes...... I took it around the block and hit the brakes hard at about 40 mph and the rear brakes locked up and the car does not swerve or pull, everything was straight. This car is a survivor and I have never been into the brakes because they always worked pretty well. Just this past year the pedal started to go further to the floor. I will open up the front brakes during the winter. __________________ *Respecting and Resurrecting Ford Model A's.*

08-26-2016, 09:41 AM	#10
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Brakes...... The Ford Service Bulletins have a very detailed factory recommended brake adjustment proceedure. It explains how to adjust the brake rods

08-26-2016, 11:13 AM	#11
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: Brakes...... Locking up the rear brakes is easy. It is locking up the front or nearly locking them that will really stop the car. The 15 degrees forward angel on the front lever is so any slop or movement between the shoes and the drum will still not let the lever go past 0 degrees or vertical. Vertical is where you would get maximum mechanical advantage. Try really pushing hard on the peddle. If the lever does not go past vertical your good.

08-26-2016, 01:41 PM	#13
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Brakes...... I'm one that uses a brake board. I see no mention of just how the brakes were adjusted. First the wedges need to be adjusted so the brakes drag ever so slightly. [ Then I leave them alone] Second I adjust the rods to get the adjustments on each wheel where I want it. So, if that is what has been done, then it sounds as if the fronts should be brought up a little more. And, again, I do that with the rod length. That may also help with your 0º issue. I don't have a big problem with the arms going to 0º, but, not back any farther than that. But, they really shouldn't go that far. They should go from the 15º to the 10º-05º range when fully applied. How far are the rear arms moving ? From what you say it appears they are going from 15º to about the 10º range. The fronts should be fairly close to that. I hate to say this, but, I'm compelled. When doing this the car needs to be supported by the axle and not the frame.