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Old 02-15-2021, 08:17 AM   #41
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

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Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
NOT "weight"! It's "Winter"! In the early days of the automobile, oil viscosity was tested and rated as SAE10, 20, 30, etc. As oils improved, oil companies were able to produce oils that flowed better when cold (like at 0 deg.) but kept their viscosity when hot. Thus, SAE 20W flowed better in the Winter than a straight 20 but did not thin out any more when hot (maintained its SAE 20 rating).



Somewhat.

As said, flow rate when cold. Winter is still a misnomer. Old still gets thinner when hot.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:49 AM   #42
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

High pressure grease would be effective provided you could insure full distribution, which requires the unit to be designed for grease lubrication. That's the issue, the lubricating factor of high pressure grease is more than adequate to protect the steering gear. The pour point of SAE 250 is why its recommended, it will flow to the bearing area.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

Synthetics are another option. I haven't searched but there might be a 'designer' synthetic gear oil that fits the bill, flow well enough to properly lubricate but not leak as bad as dinosaur oil.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com...hetic-gear-oil
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

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Somewhat.

As said, flow rate when cold. Winter is still a misnomer. Old still gets thinner when hot.
Yes, ...and an average Winter in South Texas is still warmer than most Summers in upstate New York. So Winter (-or W) means 'what'? Adding 10% Kerosene to the 600W was an additional viscosity that the engineers prescribed for use in Transmission & Differential gearboxes during cold temperatures.


.




The bottom line is whether the W meant weight, winter blend, -or whatever, ...mechanics knew that engine oil was thinner than 600W and grease was thicker than 600W. It is funny how the topic always veers in this petty discussion over what the W means, ...and only Colin responded back about how he knew his sector bushings were going to be lubricated.

IMHO, a generic response such as 'mine still leaks out of the sector housing so I know those bushings are still getting lubed' does not really ensure the thrust areas of the bushings are being lubricated. To me, it indicates the bushings in the housing are worn (-likely from lack of lubrication!!). When the original type bushings are used and installed correctly, there is an oil channel in the thrust surfaces where the original 600 lube was channeled so the moving sector would/could distribute the oil. If we agree the 600 lube is thinner than the Penrite/Cornhead/00 Grease, -and if the 600 lube did not freely leak from the sector, ...then how is it the above mentioned grease which is designed to stay where it is put can leak out of the sector housing?

As I said in my opening comment in post #1, we have been experimenting with the 00 greases however the reason I don't say the 600W to 00 Grease is a direct substitute is because of what I feel can be inadequate bushing lubrication after assembly. Again, some of the 1929 sector housings that already have the grease fitting have an easy remedy for this. Others, not so much IMO. So why is the Sector Bushings so important? Having & using the slickest lubricant known to man does no good if the Sector is allowed to move enough where the teeth engagement onto the worm gear is compromised. Inadequate sector bushing lubrication will cause premature wear. Defining exactly what the word 'premature' is opens a whole new topic though. I guess this is similar to when President Clinton made the statement "It depends on what your definition of 'Is' is."

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Old 02-15-2021, 11:43 AM   #45
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

When a person starts a discussion like this, it is not unusual for it to go on and on. There will likely still be folks putting grease in steering gears for years to come. It's just human nature to do the easy thing and not necessarily the correct thing (whatever that is). Ford could have put a grease fitting on the sector bushing but that would have just confused things even more and made a different discussion about what to do about the grease in the steering gear from greasing the sector shaft.

600W (modern) steam cylinder oil likely has little or no tallow in it in the modern era but good old straight grade SAE 140 would be more appropriate but it doesn't need GL5 EP additive content. A GL1 or GL4 type should work OK. Mixing grease soaps, gear oils, and viscosity builders like STP will make some kind of lubricant but it sounds like a pita to me.

I'm never surprised when folks think there is something wrong with a little drip from a model A component after driving a while. This technology wasn't exactly designed not to leak some. This is why Ford made charts for periodic lubrication schedules.
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Old 02-15-2021, 12:39 PM   #46
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

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I don't know if it was the right kind of lube or not but when I was a kid in the little farming town I grew up in the local garage was where all the loafers ganged up every day. This one day an old boy drove up in a model a coupe needing a grease job. The mechanic was covered up but he told him that he could use the grease rack and air grease gun if he was in a big hurry. Well everything went good underneath the car but when he let it down and was greasing the steering sector the grease gun was going cha, cha, cha, when the mechanic came out of the garage cussing up a storm. "What are you doing"? he asked. Then he opened the door and there was pile of grease that looked like a big cow patty that came out the horn hole in the steering wheel. That steering sector probable got lubed good for a while.
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Old 02-15-2021, 01:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

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I don't know if it was the right kind of lube or not but when I was a kid in the little farming town I grew up in the local garage was where all the loafers ganged up every day. This one day an old boy drove up in a model a coupe needing a grease job. The mechanic was covered up but he told him that he could use the grease rack and air grease gun if he was in a big hurry. Well everything went good underneath the car but when he let it down and was greasing the steering sector the grease gun was going cha, cha, cha, when the mechanic came out of the garage cussing up a storm. "What are you doing"? he asked. Then he opened the door and there was pile of grease that looked like a big cow patty that came out the horn hole in the steering wheel. That steering sector probable got lubed good for a while.
I've been seriously thinking about buying a bag of NPT plugs to put in the steering column and other places. Not for me, but in case the next owner takes a more literal approach to grease fittings.
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:44 PM   #48
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Yes, ...and an average Winter in South Texas is still warmer than most Summers in upstate New York. So Winter (-or W) means 'what'? Adding 10% Kerosene to the 600W was an additional viscosity that the engineers prescribed for use in Transmission & Differential gearboxes during cold temperatures.


.




The bottom line is whether the W meant weight, winter blend, -or whatever, ...mechanics knew that engine oil was thinner than 600W and grease was thicker than 600W. It is funny how the topic always veers in this petty discussion over what the W means, ...and only Colin responded back about how he knew his sector bushings were going to be lubricated.

IMHO, a generic response such as 'mine still leaks out of the sector housing so I know those bushings are still getting lubed' does not really ensure the thrust areas of the bushings are being lubricated. To me, it indicates the bushings in the housing are worn (-likely from lack of lubrication!!). When the original type bushings are used and installed correctly, there is an oil channel in the thrust surfaces where the original 600 lube was channeled so the moving sector would/could distribute the oil. If we agree the 600 lube is thinner than the Penrite/Cornhead/00 Grease, -and if the 600 lube did not freely leak from the sector, ...then how is it the above mentioned grease which is designed to stay where it is put can leak out of the sector housing?

As I said in my opening comment in post #1, we have been experimenting with the 00 greases however the reason I don't say the 600W to 00 Grease is a direct substitute is because of what I feel can be inadequate bushing lubrication after assembly. Again, some of the 1929 sector housings that already have the grease fitting have an easy remedy for this. Others, not so much IMO. So why is the Sector Bushings so important? Having & using the slickest lubricant known to man does no good if the Sector is allowed to move enough where the teeth engagement onto the worm gear is compromised. Inadequate sector bushing lubrication will cause premature wear. Defining exactly what the word 'premature' is opens a whole new topic though. I guess this is similar to when President Clinton made the statement "It depends on what your definition of 'Is' is."

.

.

.




LOL. I agree, this is a petty argument. Probably always will be.
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Old 02-15-2021, 03:03 PM   #49
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

The 1930 Model A I purchased in 2016, I did not notice the grease fitting kind of added to the steering box, and the steering really was not right, but, got it home, got as much grease as I could out of the box, added diesel and kept working it with a some mixing and suction, and got all I could and replaced it with whatever modern 600w is. I expected the reason for the grease was leakage, but to my surprise, no leaks with the 600W, but then again maybe I did not get out all the grease, not sure! With that said, steering still is not right but, it is on the list to get done. I would venture with some improvements since 1930, grease in place of oil might work on some things but Henry was big on 600W and that is fine with me!
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:06 PM   #50
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

I use John Deere corn head grease and it seems to work fine.
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Old 06-25-2021, 03:50 PM   #51
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

Here to raise the thread from the dead... I appreciate the nuances of these discussions but I also find (as a recovering engineer) that I experience heavy "analysis paralysis".

Reviving my 28 with a 7-tooth setup. Grease fittings on it. look like possibly more modern versions that my uncle may have put on in the 70's. Pull them both out and use "600W" oil and replace with NPT plugs? Mix up my own 00 / 600w homebrew and fill a "grease" gun with it and pump a few pumps in?

or pump a couple pumps of grease into what is probably a box filled with dried up grease and walk away for now until the inevitable re-build?

The lighting switch housing is covered in what can only be described as a thick layer of oily separated grease. Might also be because I had to spray the control rods down with penetrating oil at the upper bushing just to get them to move....

Advice? I'm willing to do whatever (short of pulling everything and rebuilding it now).
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Old 06-25-2021, 04:17 PM   #52
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

Start a new thread, you're gonna get a lot of (good) advice and this is a zombie thread on a separate topic.
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Old 06-26-2021, 07:08 AM   #53
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Default Re: Why Grease should not be used in a Steering Gearbox

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Here to raise the thread from the dead... I appreciate the nuances of these discussions but I also find (as a recovering engineer) that I experience heavy "analysis paralysis".

Reviving my 28 with a 7-tooth setup. Grease fittings on it. look like possibly more modern versions that my uncle may have put on in the 70's. Pull them both out and use "600W" oil and replace with NPT plugs? Mix up my own 00 / 600w homebrew and fill a "grease" gun with it and pump a few pumps in?

or pump a couple pumps of grease into what is probably a box filled with dried up grease and walk away for now until the inevitable re-build?

The lighting switch housing is covered in what can only be described as a thick layer of oily separated grease. Might also be because I had to spray the control rods down with penetrating oil at the upper bushing just to get them to move....

Advice? I'm willing to do whatever (short of pulling everything and rebuilding it now).
As Colin suggested, it may be better to start a new thread but since you did post something here, let me just give you a couple of quickie suggestions. Jack-up the front end and place on stands to take the load off of the steering gearbox. Find some 85/140 gear oil at your local parts store of choice and top off the gearbox. Begin turning the steering wheel from lock to lock to begin working the new lube into the existing grease. Yes, it like likely leak out of the sector housing or out of the lower end, but this should be fluid enough to begin remixing with whatever is in the box. Later you can change to a different weight lube when it meets your timeline.
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