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Old 10-15-2020, 08:26 PM   #1
johnny
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Default t 5 tranmission

is there a kit one can get to add a T5 transmission to a Model A? or is it done?
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Yes, some people is running a T5. Not sure who has the kits/parts but I am sure that someone will pop up with the answer.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Haven't tried any of these

https://www.dan4banger.com/products.html

https://www.lainefamily.com/ModelAFiles/ModelAT5.htm

https://valleymachineshop.com/model-a-parts.html
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Old 10-16-2020, 07:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

The two or three things to be aware of about this conversion is;

One of the 4 structural crossmembers of the frame is severely compromised to make this modification. Granted, this crossmember can be modified to add the rigidity back to the member however most people do not do this. The stock Model-A frame is considered weak by design to begin with, and when one of them is cut removing much of the strength, it really is not a good thing.

Second, when the stock 'torque tube' is removed from the driveline, most do not realize the compromise that is made. Not only does this tube "push" the vehicle as it transfers the forward motion of the vehicle from the rear axle up to the back of the transmission, -it also counteracts the rotational torque caused as the rear axle transfers the power to the rear wheels/tires. Without the torque tube to transfer this energy, it is left to the small radius rods. Many of these conversions have failed using unmodified radius rods.

The third thing to be aware of is there is a potential of a clutch chatter and/or vibration caused by the clutch disc alignment. The reason is because there is an adapter that is used to lengthen the front end of the transmission input shaft. I believe that some of these either had a poorly made adapter, -or the transmission input shaft was not within specs which allowed the clutch disc to not remain centered in the plane of the flywheel and transmission. This I feel is another poor design of this modification.
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Old 10-16-2020, 07:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

thanks for all the great information I suggest adding a T5 to a Model A is not the greatest idea.johnny
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:27 AM   #6
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thanks for all the great information I suggest adding a T5 to a Model A is not the greatest idea.johnny
I don't know if I would say it is a "bad idea", ...its more about most of them are poorly executed using an inferior designed kit. If the frame is properly braced with a K-member, then hacking on the center crossmember is probably not a big deal. If the radius rods are rebuilt/fabricated to act as trailing-arms instead of braces, this helps tremendously. Personally, I think that using the better thought-out kit such as the clutch housing that Vintage Precision out in California offers is much better. Even using their kit finds quite a bit of work and expense.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

A Mitchell Model "A" transmission fitted with syncromesh gears is a simpler to install than a T5.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

I've been running a T-5 for 10 years with none of the issues described by Brent. First off, before cutting the cross member, we made a piece that reinforced the cross member AFTER the cut using 8 grade 5 bolts to hold it in place. The rear radius rods were reinforced using 1' X 1/4" mild steel straps welded the length of the rods on the seam. Do a search over on the Jalopy Journal (same owner as the Fordbarn) and do a search on the subject. There is info there on using a Jeep T-5 and retaining the torque tune.
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

I've been running a T-5 in my Vicky for a few years, including some hill climbs. The Vicky has a Rutherford OHV conversion, so puts out some horsepower. I use an open drive line and an 8" rear end with coil-overs, so I have none of the above problems. The reason for me chiming in is that the T-5 is the best and easiest shifting option for the Model A that I have ever driven. I have driven Mitchel's, I have a speedster with a '39 V8 trans and a '31 wide-bed with Zephyr gears, the T-5 is the best of them all!!! miller hi-speed sells an adapter so you can retain the torque-yube.
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Old 10-16-2020, 04:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

The T5 has been successfully adapted for torque tube drive but the one thing that can't be easily changed is the location of the shifter. This is the reason that the Tremec/Ford T170 RTS was popular for a while. At least it had the shifter close to where it once was plus it too can be adapted for torque tube drive.
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Old 10-16-2020, 05:14 PM   #11
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

I have a T5 in a 30 pickup and it is a wonderful match for the Model A engine. Also have a 30 Tudor with a stock drive train. Love both equally.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny View Post
is there a kit one can get to add a T5 transmission to a Model A? or is it done?
To answer your questions simply, yes and yes.
Before you do anything, it is best to do some research on what is available for gear ratios and will a certain gear set satisfy you for your style and use of driving. Your engine horsepower needs to be figured in the final decision also.
You need to figure out what YOU alone need. Asking other people will get you as many answers as people.
There are probably at least 20 different stock OEM gear sets available and a few aftermarket ones also. Any transmission you buy could have any one of these. Some are really miserable to drive. The ID tags are not always accurate for ID either. Gear sets can be mixed also for special needs. There are certain modifications that can greatly prolong the life of the transmission and the ease of shifting also.
There are several ways to do the conversion. None are easy unless you pay to have it done.
The simplest way is to have the transmission converted to torque tube output.
This retains the stock rear end and brakes if need be.
There are ways to do it with NO modifications to the transmission also.

Again, to repeat, if you don't get the gear ratios right FOR YOU, you are not going to like driving it.

If you get it right, driving will be the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on.
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

What will the main advantage be ? Wayne
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Main advantage is a full syncro modern gearbox with quieter helical gears.
Overdrive is part of the gearbox, no extra levers, switches or pull thingys.
Kind of like having the overdrive as a part of an engineered system instead of an afterthought.
Much easier to drive especially in traffic.

I know it is hard to tell, but I like mine.........
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Old 10-17-2020, 06:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

there is a T5 from a S10 4x4 for sale on the HAMB....perfect for model a
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
The T5 has been successfully adapted for torque tube drive but the one thing that can't be easily changed is the location of the shifter. This is the reason that the Tremec/Ford T170 RTS was popular for a while. At least it had the shifter close to where it once was plus it too can be adapted for torque tube drive.
Where does the shifter come out, vs the original?
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Old 10-18-2020, 03:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

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Where does the shifter come out, vs the original?
Approximately 3 inches rearward.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Pretty interesting discussion. Seems there are clearly technical benefits to the mod. Is there a philosophical element to be considered ? Most agree that safety belts, turn signals, and electrical mods are allowable without overly impacting originality. Is a major mod like a modern trans or even an engine crossing the originality rubicon which makes one's ride a Model A on the outside but not on the inside ? Is the value increased to some while decreased for others ? Everyone knows what is best for them and no criticism is intended to those to choose to mod or not to mod. Just curious if the old heads have any thoughts on the originality factor. As for me, I think the whinning and grinding and double clutching of an original trans if just part of the Model A charm.. Watcha think ?
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:14 AM   #19
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Then there is Bling.
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Mullet, yes the whinning and grinding and double clutching of an original trans is just part of the Model A charm..

But, there is enough of the model a charm that you don't have to put up with the whinning and grinding and double clutching of an original trans and get moving as quickly as modern day traffic in town and the highway and stay saffer.

I have a F150 trans and love it. The only thing that might be better would be a 5 speed.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:57 PM   #21
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

The big advantage of the T170 or T176 (Ford or Jeep)top shift, top loader transmission over the Borg Warner T5 is the length. When used with an AA bellhousing the crossmember needs only minimal trimming on the front flange for clearance. Also, the shifter location is only a couple inches farther back than the Model A shifter, as opposed to nearly a foot back for the T5.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

My T5 is WONDERFUL!!! Easy shifting with absolutely no problems in four years; shifts like a new car... 20+ MPG to boot, and just one lever to deal with. GD
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Old 10-22-2020, 12:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
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Approximately 3 inches rearward.
It's more like 6-8 inches actually when using an S-10 tailshaft...

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Old 10-22-2020, 01:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

[QUOTE=PotvinV8;1944007]It's more like 6-8 inches actually when using an S-10 tailshaft...

IT IS 3 INCHES ON MY CAR!!!!
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

It hasn't changed in 10 years, still 3". Rather than buy a used S-10 transmission and rebuild it, mine is brand new.
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:31 AM   #26
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Ok, better go measure mine, I must be wrong. What did you guys do for carpet/floormat? I couldn't figure out a way to cover the pre-made hole in the mat and cover the shifter assembly as they were too far away.

Ended up getting carpet from Classtique, cut my own holes, and attached the rubber mat myself. Is your shifter close to the seat in 2-4-R? If memory serves me correct, mine was pretty close before I moved it closer to the stock location.
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Old 10-24-2020, 04:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

I went back and precision measured (with a tape Measure). The stick pivot is 3.4375
back from my original.
The stick is 15 inches long above the pivot.
The center of the shift knob travels 4 inches from 1 to 2.
The stick is 3 inches from the seat at the closest point when in gear 2 and the seat full forward.
I made a new stick from bar stock. It is 2 inches longer below the pivot.
There is a 2 inch riser block under the shifter cover.

A couple of things to remember when thinking about a T5 conversion:
1- They came in many different configurations from many different brands of cars.
2- They came in many different strength ratings from 265 to 335 ft.lb.
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Old 10-24-2020, 04:41 PM   #28
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Ok, better go measure mine, I must be wrong. What did you guys do for carpet/floormat? I couldn't figure out a way to cover the pre-made hole in the mat and cover the shifter assembly as they were too far away.
Snyder's has untrimmed floor mats if you are ever interested. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword
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Old 10-24-2020, 05:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by denis4x4 View Post
It hasn't changed in 10 years, still 3". Rather than buy a used S-10 transmission and rebuild it, mine is brand new.
Dennis,

Did you buy a Tremec? What model and what gear ratios did you get?

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Old 10-24-2020, 06:14 PM   #30
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Cal-T: search on "F150 tranny with overdrive" and you'll find all the info you need.
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Old 10-25-2020, 01:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Can someone please explain the mechanics of the shifter and its twin brother as shown in post #23 ? Obviously the forward shifters position has nothing to do with the transmission itself, but I can't quite figure out the connection and mounting of the bottom portion of the "Phantom" shifter lever. Are they using a Heim joint or some other fixed mount shaft with a pivot on the end? As simple as this is, it would be a great addition to any T-5 set up and I for one would like to have this for my car. Thanks
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Old 10-25-2020, 02:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

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Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
Can someone please explain the mechanics of the shifter and its twin brother as shown in post #23 ? Obviously the forward shifters position has nothing to do with the transmission itself, but I can't quite figure out the connection and mounting of the bottom portion of the "Phantom" shifter lever. Are they using a Heim joint or some other fixed mount shaft with a pivot on the end? As simple as this is, it would be a great addition to any T-5 set up and I for one would like to have this for my car. Thanks
To me, it appears that they have merely procured an aftermarket T5 performance shifter like in my picture below, cut the intended internal shifting ball from the bottom, and mounted it solidly to that makeshift plate on top of the stock shift-rail cover. It amounts to nothing more than a 2-D gimbal of sorts. DD





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Old 10-25-2020, 11:07 PM   #33
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Snyder's has untrimmed floor mats if you are ever interested. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword
Darn! This would have been good to know when I did mine. I'm happy with the carpet however and think it makes the car feel more "finished" inside. Perhaps this will help someone else in the future however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve hackel View Post
Can someone please explain the mechanics of the shifter and its twin brother as shown in post #23 ? Obviously the forward shifters position has nothing to do with the transmission itself, but I can't quite figure out the connection and mounting of the bottom portion of the "Phantom" shifter lever. Are they using a Heim joint or some other fixed mount shaft with a pivot on the end? As simple as this is, it would be a great addition to any T-5 set up and I for one would like to have this for my car. Thanks
This is my over-complicated attempt to move the shifter to the stock location. I cut off the shift stub on the stock shifter (bottom) and then mounted the longer T56 shifter assembly and mated the two with the linkage as shown in the pic. It's basically two shifter assemblies mated as one with the rearmost shifter attaching to the transmission. It puts the shifter in the same spot as the stock 3-speed shifter.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Read this:



https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...rticle.171291/
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:17 AM   #35
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Default Re: t 5 tranmission

Are there any thoughts on whether the five speed T-5 transmission or the four speed Tremec/Ford T170 RTS as used in the mid eighties F-150 trucks is preferable?

Are there pros and cons to either transmission for use in a Model A?
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:48 AM   #36
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Are there any thoughts on whether the five speed T-5 transmission or the four speed Tremec/Ford T170 RTS as used in the mid eighties F-150 trucks is preferable?

Are there pros and cons to either transmission for use in a Model A?
BOTH of these transmissions offer synchronized shifting, and both offer an internal OD that supposedly gets the revs down in a Model A so that you can STILL go RELATIVELY slowly (45-60-ish mph), albeit at a slower engine speed. But don't forget, whichever trans you decide on, the engine is going to have to "work" a little harder (at that reduced rpm), as the OD ends-up being a higher overall gear, even though the revs may be reduced. MOST guys won't even drive their Model As at 60 mph. So, the real advantage I see with BOTH transmissions is the smooth, synchronized shifting, as well as being quieter because of the helical-cut gears. But there's real advantage from the T5 in that you have an additional gear there to keep the revs more-within that happy power band. In other words, there is less of an RPM drop between gears, and it'll make that little 'A-bone' engine come alive, and even more of a blast to drive with the extra gear.

Below, you will see a picture of an interesting T5 that Heard (also here on the 'Barn) and I assembled for his '36 3-window coupe. We assembled it completely from factory Borg-Warner (Tremec) parts. The main case and gear set is the 2.95 to 1 close ratio gears from a V8 Camaro, with the short main shaft and VERY SHORT rear tail shaft housing coming from a 4 X 4 Jeep CJ application....AGAIN, all factory T5 parts, BOLT-TOGETHER....No machine work! THIS trans is even four+ inches shorter than the Chevy S-10 4 X 4 version that you read about some guys converting to. Then, as you can see, we adapted it to a Ford torque tube/drive shaft, which is virtually identical to a Model A set-up. If interested, you can read our entire build at the link below. The bottom picture shows where the shifter would end-up with this T5, as well as any T5 with a Chevy S-10 two wheel drive tail shaft housing/shifter. T5s are extremely versatile and can be assembled in a multitude of variations. DD


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...T5+TORQUE+TUBE







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