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Old 10-11-2020, 08:56 AM   #1
skidmarks
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Default Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

Question about the traditional AV8 set up in a 30 -31 body and frame

Chassis was set up using the measurements from the Tardel Bishop book using a stock A chassis and stock firewall.
Keeping the 39 transmission and removing the flathead.

The intention is to bolt a 265 chevy in using a offy bellhousing and hurst front motor mount.

Will it go right in or will there be clearance issues?
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

The small block Chevy is about the shortest set up from front to rear if it has the short water pump but like any custom application, a person should mock it up before setting anything in stone. Don't forget the distributor is on the back on those Chevys. Some folks turn the firewall around to get more clearance on the later model A bodies. Folks on the HAMB/Jalopy Journal site would be a better bunch to ask. Most folks on here still run the original engines. Some of us run V8s but not all. I prefer the flathead AV8 traditional approach myself.

There should be measurements on the HAMB for the distance between radiator and firewall if you do a search.
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

Yep, sounds like a perfect question for the HAMB.
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

Frame is already set up with a 59ab , 39 trans and a 40 rear with the torque tube already done. It was done using all the information from the tardel Bishop book

Car was never finished. The guy who ownes it now asked me to take the flathead out and replace it with a 265 chevy and keep everything else. 30/31 body is still stock.

Was interested if anyone swapped a chevy with the chassis set up as i mentioned.

Was interested knowing if its as simple as swapping it or other issues. 265 has the short pump. Its a simple swap in a 40 ford and even easier in a 41 to 48. Model A wasnt sure about the firewall
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:36 AM   #5
chuck stevens
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

Why go with the small chevy, build a 286 flattie and stand out from the crowd.... nothing sounds better!
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Way back when, I had a friend who installed a 283 Chevy into his Model "A" tudor. Just about every time he "got on it", it would end up sputtering to a stop with a broken rotor, caused, of course, by the distributor hitting the firewall. You have to be careful to get the proper clearance on both ends of the engine.

I believe he ended up reversing the firewall.
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Way back when, I had a friend who installed a 283 Chevy into his Model "A" tudor. Just about every time he "got on it", it would end up sputtering to a stop with a broken rotor, caused, of course, by the distributor hitting the firewall. You have to be careful to get the proper clearance on both ends of the engine.

I believe he ended up reversing the firewall.
That is about the only thing i can think of would hit. Thanks.
Gaining front clearance can be done by moving the front crossmember forward 1 rivit hole which ive done before. Perfer not to move the transmission because the torque tube and driveshaft pedals ect are all done.

And its not my car
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Why go with the small chevy, build a 286 flattie and stand out from the crowd.... nothing sounds better!

With all that work Chuck a 265? I stuff a 337 in the thing
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

Moving the cross member moves the front axle as well. It would look funky. I certainly hope the frame is boxed. The wishbone will likely have to be split. To me, the amount of work involved doesn't justify the change plus the cool factor goes right out the window. It just turns into another run of the mill street rod with a bow tie engine in it.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Moving the cross member moves the front axle as well. It would look funky. I certainly hope the frame is boxed. The wishbone will likely have to be split. To me, the amount of work involved doesn't justify the change plus the cool factor goes right out the window. It just turns into another run of the mill street rod with a bow tie engine in it.
I dont own the car. Moving the crossmember one rivit hole amounts to about one inch and if it isnt pointed out out you dont see it. Thats why riblit sells hoods to length like 32 ford hoods with chevy vent doors.

Wishbone is already split, it doesnt have fenders and no hood.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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With all that work Chuck a 265? I stuff a 337 in the thing
Chevy is a bolt in to whats already there, question was what might hit like the distributor or possibly the back of the block with were the flathead is already mounted using the measurements from the tardel bishop book.

And if he decides he doesnt want the 265, he can bolt the 59AB back in .
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

What's the length of your '40 torque tube? I'm putting together a '29 with a SBC. Temporarily, I'm using an A rear. (I have a '40 rear waiting in my trailer.) According to my measurements, a '32 and an A both have the same distance between the bell mouth on the torque tube to the centerline of the front crossmember. So, I set up my motor mounts based on the A rear / '39 trans / Offenhauser adapter. To clear the crank pulley, I grafted in the rear flange of a donor crossmember to get that space. For the heads and distributor, I'm cutting out pieces of the firewall and welding in little boxes and a half of a 6" fire extinguisher. I didn't want to loose too much floor room by doing a drastic recessed firewall.
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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With all that work Chuck a 265? I stuff a 337 in the thing

Those BIG flatheads have tons of torque I had a friend that had a Lincoln that came with one, it was like a big block chevy. Don't need any speed parts!!
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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What's the length of your '40 torque tube? I'm putting together a '29 with a SBC. Temporarily, I'm using an A rear. (I have a '40 rear waiting in my trailer.) According to my measurements, a '32 and an A both have the same distance between the bell mouth on the torque tube to the centerline of the front crossmember. So, I set up my motor mounts based on the A rear / '39 trans / Offenhauser adapter. To clear the crank pulley, I grafted in the rear flange of a donor crossmember to get that space. For the heads and distributor, I'm cutting out pieces of the firewall and welding in little boxes and a half of a 6" fire extinguisher. I didn't want to loose too much floor room by doing a drastic recessed firewall.
I dont have the chassis in front of me to measure the torque tube but i sorta remember 51" but to determine that is to mount the motor to the measurement in the book then the transmission crossmember of choice.

The 51" is a 40 rear with the spring on top.

There was also something about the measurement in the book was for a 59 AB and not a 8BA

but i know from 2 old hotrodded Model A i have that still have model A rears both have had the firewalls cut. Both have 39 transmissions , one 8Ba the other a 265 chevy. And how much gets cut also depends on the body sitting stock or channeled

Flathead powered model A's that i have had in the past with 59AB motors set up to the tardel measurement cleared the firewall . Was hoping to find out if the chevy will clear on this car the way it sits before starting anything.
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Old 10-12-2020, 09:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Was hoping to find out if the chevy will clear on this car the way it sits before starting anything.
In this case, the Chevy distributor is a killer. You have to have room for it to be in, room for it to move with engine movement and, finally, room to lift it out without having to remove the engine or body.
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Old 10-13-2020, 05:16 AM   #16
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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In this case, the Chevy distributor is a killer. You have to have room for it to be in, room for it to move with engine movement and, finally, room to lift it out without having to remove the engine or body.
Not really, it just means cutting the firewall.
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Old 10-13-2020, 08:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Not really, it just means cutting the firewall.
Other than that we do have 289's 302's with the distributor is on front: end
of that problem. Then for a A maybe a 255 Mercury little overkill. My son
put a 1935 V8 in a 1930 4dr and that car rocks..... but then a 8BA with
5 speed OD will do anything ya want it to do.....
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:28 AM   #18
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

Be Careful. If I remember correctly some of the measurements in the book are INCORRECT. Depending on which printing you have also.

FWIW

Paul in CT
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:32 AM   #19
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Be Careful. If I remember correctly some of the measurements in the book are INCORRECT. Depending on which printing you have also.

FWIW

Paul in CT
There were 2 measurement errors that i remeember on the early editions of the book.
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Old 10-13-2020, 10:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Tradel Bishop AV8 question on a 30 -31 body

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Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
Be Careful. If I remember correctly some of the measurements in the book are INCORRECT. Depending on which printing you have also.

FWIW

Paul in CT

Yes the measurements are incorrect. The distance from radiator to front mount and the method to locate the rear crossmember are wrong.
I left the front mounts and the K member loose with the engine and transmission mounted,the radiator in a nd thr body on. I juggled the K member back and forth to get firewall clearnce,radiator clearance . After that was set,I measured the lenghth of the torque tube needed.

The torque tube locates everything else unless you want to change the location of the rear axle.

Good luck,this seems like a difficult job.




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