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Old 01-15-2020, 11:05 AM   #1
denis4x4
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Default Fine point judging...a simple question

The thread on non-traditional colors had several posters making the point that cars with these sorts of paint jobs would be devalued by purists. I'm curious as to whether or not the number of cars at national meets seeking a fine point judging ribbon are increasing or decreasing.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:22 AM   #2
alexiskai
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

I don't have a personal opinion on the subject, but when I talked to Ken Davis, who's been in the hobby for decades, he felt strongly that fine-point judging had become incredibly expensive as a pursuit. He attributed this to two factors: first, the number and detail of the factors on which competitors are judged is continually increasing; second, the parts and expertise needed to meet the judging requirements are increasingly rare. So the money and time you need to put into the restoration becomes geometrically greater as time goes on. This doesn't directly speak to the popularity of FPJ, but I guess it would speak to the type of competitor you're likely to see. Again, this was all just Ken's opinion.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:35 AM   #3
Tom in SW VA
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

I agree that the number of FPJ entrants is less than before. Two reasons: Cost to restore a car to fine-point is much more expensive than ever and secondly, the judging is much more demanding for the owner to meet. I have earned the Mark of Excellence and the Master Restoration awards from MARC, but I will never win the Henry Award.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:47 AM   #4
Gary WA
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

Decreasing!Older Generation of Model A owners are depleting-Younger generation are not interested!
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

Just a general comment. I'm 70 years old and bought my first Hot Rod Magazine in 1961. That being said, many don't care for Rat Rods but I feel they came about by increasing demand to build ultra fancy Hot Rods. There are a lot of factors that come into play but just the $$$$ it takes to build anything these days has gone through the roof. Do the ends justify the means. There will always be a minority that have the discretionary income to achieve the ultimate whatever.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:06 PM   #6
Steve Plucker
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

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Decreasing!Older Generation of Model A owners are depleting-Younger generation are not interested!
Gary,

Great point however I would not say that the "Younger generation are not interested"...I think I would say that the younger generation are becoming less and less interested as there are still some out there who really does have the interest...just less and less over time.

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Old 01-15-2020, 12:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

I agree with the fine point judging comments of Ken Davis, and many others. Speaking as a retired Master Judge, the "specs" for a 500 point car are now almost overwhelming and with the many Ford assembly plants operating during 1927-31. It is extremely hard to pinpoint EXACT items when there were many variations among the assembly plants. Speaking as a purist, Cost being a major factor, we as a group should when presenting a near perfect Model As for Fine Point, realize there are and will be fewer and fewer cars presented. Touring has become the major factor among modern-day Model A'ers and even I say: "If it looks like a Model A - runs like a Model A. sounds like a Model A, then it is a Model A. My opinion and NUFF SAID, Jim Langley...
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

I have two fine point MARC Henry award Model A's so I figured I'd give you my opinion. Yes the cost of doing a fine point restoration is high but so is doing a nice, reliable driver. I try to do most of my own work as that is an enjoyable part of the hobby for me. I see less restorers today and more that will simply order out of a catalog and replace than find the original parts and spend time restoring them. Part of that is digging through swap meets to find the correct parts. It boils down to what extent do Model A owners want to take their restoration. To me, it's just as easy to do it correctly and do the best job you can than to do a half-assed job. I guess to each his own.
Another factor I see is that once the national clubs created the driving class judging, many owners did their cars to those standards and were happy with the award they received, usually a higher point total than if they would have entered in fine point.
Bottom line, there is something for everyone in this hobby. I encourage anyone that has even a passive interest in authentic restorations to go for it in fine point. It is a great learning experience and super rewarding to receive whatever award you received on the night of the awards banquet.
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:32 PM   #9
Jim Mason
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

The number of cars in fine point has decreased since the 70s/80s.
The number of 2nd and 3rd place cars have almost disappeared.

The numbet of high point cars has remained anout the same or increased slightly.


See Gary's post
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

Quote:
Originally Posted by denis4x4 View Post
The thread on non-traditional colors had several posters making the point that cars with these sorts of paint jobs would be devalued by purists. I'm curious as to whether or not the number of cars at national meets seeking a fine point judging ribbon are increasing or decreasing.

Are you trying to make the point that fine point entries are decreasing because of car paint color?
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:31 AM   #11
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

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Are you trying to make the point that fine point entries are decreasing because of car paint color?

No. Read the title of the thread: Fine point judging....a simple question. If I thought that paint color had an influence on the number of FPJ cars, I wouldn't have asked the question!
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

In looking at some older threads posted here, and them some older MARC news letters I have, I came upon the "New Judging Standards" posted in one of them.. If we went back to using them, everyone would now have a Show Car..
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

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Originally Posted by F.M. View Post
In looking at some older threads posted here, and them some older MARC news letters I have, I came upon the "New Judging Standards" posted in one of them.. If we went back to using them, everyone would now have a Show Car..

The level of knowledge AND the level of competition have increased.


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Old 01-20-2020, 08:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

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Originally Posted by denis4x4 View Post
No. Read the title of the thread: Fine point judging....a simple question. If I thought that paint color had an influence on the number of FPJ cars, I wouldn't have asked the question!
So why mention paint color? That is what threw me off. If you simply asked "I'm curious as to whether or not the number of cars at national meets seeking a fine point judging ribbon are increasing or decreasing." it would have been clear to me. The first sentence about the color of car is what threw me.

No matter it's clear now.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

I do not own a car that has won any Marc awards , but I have beaten some of those same cars at other events . It is fantastic to win but as I grow and learn the friendship we make far outweighed any trophy or awards . And truly owning the car is the greatest trophy anyone could ever receive
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Fine point judging...a simple question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
So why mention paint color? That is what threw me off. If you simply asked "I'm curious as to whether or not the number of cars at national meets seeking a fine point judging ribbon are increasing or decreasing." it would have been clear to me. The first sentence about the color of car is what threw me.

No matter it's clear now.
The original question seemed clear to me. What are you trying to accomplish Mike?
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