Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Late V8 (1954+)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2017, 01:24 PM   #1
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Question for carb experts

Does anyone know if it's possible to convert the early type Autolite 4100 to use a the later model accelerator pump. The older type uses a longer accelerator pump and the latter a shorter type.
The longer one gets in the way of the water heater valve on intake manifold which I have relocated elsewhere for now. I'd like to keep the stock location which is why I was wondering it's possible to convert the carb.









__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2017, 04:56 PM   #2
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,996
Default Re: Question for carb experts

There are actually three different thicknesses of accel pump covers. Your's pictured is '57 only (first year of the 4100). The second carb pictured has a pump cover used from '58 thru approx. '63 or '64 (shorter than the '57 style). The third style from '64 and up is the shortest of the three styles.
Shouldn't be a problem converting to either of the other shorter styles. You will need the newer accel pump diaphragm (#59) available at auto parts stores, and a shorter pump rod that goes from the throttle lever to the pump lever. The return spring (#60) should be useable from the early carb.
Of course you will also need to find the shorter diaphragm cover of your choice.

Or get a later 4100 if you want more airflow. The '57 Autolite 4100 has tiny ventui's and may flow about 400 CFM.

Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-12-2017, 12:38 AM   #3
willowbilly3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Black Hills, SD
Posts: 577
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Is the newer accel. pump diaphragm going to work on the earlier check ball type carb> Just wondering.
willowbilly3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #4
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 12,059
Default Re: Question for carb experts

My problems with those was keeping the vacuum diaphragm working on the secondary. I had a lot of troubles with those.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-14-2017 at 11:59 AM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 12:22 PM   #5
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,996
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by willowbilly3 View Post
Is the newer accel. pump diaphragm going to work on the earlier check ball type carb> Just wondering.


Yes it will. That check ball version went to approx. 1964. After that they changed the design to a rubber flapper check valve instead of the steel ball. The diaphragms will work all the way till the end of production on 4100, 2100 and 2150 Autolite carbs.

Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 10:35 PM   #6
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Sal, the carb I have is a 57 4100. I was just looking for a 4100 with 1.08 venturies for my 56 292 when I got my B manifold and got this carb purely by chance. I didn't want to over-carb the 292. I also like the simplicity of the Autolite.
Thanks for the info Sal.
__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2017, 11:49 PM   #7
deucemac
Senior Member
 
deucemac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tehachapi, Ca.
Posts: 207
Default Re: Question for carb experts

You should be able to use a pump body and arm, return spring, do and arm, and elastomer valve from a later 4100 or 2100 2bbl. Without any problem. Just make sure all the parts come from the same donor carb.
deucemac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 02:26 PM   #8
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,996
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Herman, if you are not going to use the '57 4100, and are looking for a 1.08" 4100,
"Streatdreams" on Ford Barn just sold one in the "Swap Meet" section, but said he is going to post more. Might want to send him a PM if you are looking for one. I have a rough one, but it's a 1.12" from a '64 T-Bird (600 CFM). Has internal water damage.

Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 03:37 PM   #9
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Re: Question for carb experts

I have used it but have it off along with the intake right now. The choke heat tube inside the manifold is bad so I have replace it. The carb otherwise works fine. I could switch to an electric choke control but going that route would be more expensive that replacing the tube.
__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 03:40 PM   #10
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Re: Question for carb experts

This is my carb and manifold.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0508.JPG (122.1 KB, 58 views)
__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2017, 05:40 PM   #11
Gene F
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 230
Default Re: Question for carb experts

I put an electric choke cap on my 57, and glad I did. I replaced the regular one, but it still never worked right, no matter what I did.
Gene F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #12
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,996
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Amazing that the carb is basicly as long as the intake manifold. Have no idea why it was designed with the extra extra long accel. pump cover.

Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 06:34 PM   #13
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Sal, I didn't realize how long the carb was in relation to the manifold until you pointed it out. The air cleaner I have for it, I believe it's also a 57, is also huge. The element is quite small though. I wonder why Ford made large air-cleaners.
__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 02:47 AM   #14
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,838
Post Re: Question for carb experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman Munster View Post

Does anyone know if it's possible to convert the early type Autolite 4100 to use a the later model accelerator pump. The older type uses a longer accelerator pump and the latter a shorter type.

The longer one gets in the way of the water heater valve on intake manifold which I have relocated elsewhere for now. I'd like to keep the stock location which is why I was wondering it's possible to convert the carb.
...hmmph...

The 57 4100 was a one year design (HOLLEY) (elongated accelerator pump and divorced choke housing).

I wonder if the 4100 292/312 had a remote mounted heater control valve?

Can you show a photo of your air cleaner asm? I would think it would be the same for the 4100-4150-AFB equipped engines.
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Sung By Frank Sinatra
--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 02:58 AM   #15
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,838
Post Re: Question for carb experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post

...hmmph...

The 57 4100 was a one year design (HOLLEY) (elongated accelerator pump and divorced choke housing).

I wonder if the 4100 292/312 had a remote mounted heater control valve?

Can you show a photo of your air cleaner asm? I would think it would be the same for the 4100-4150-AFB equipped engines.
EDIT-

The fuel inlet is also elongated. Does it also interfere with the heater control valve?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CARB- 4100 ECZ 1957 FORD-MERC 312 _4.jpg (41.7 KB, 19 views)
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Sung By Frank Sinatra
--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 11:39 AM   #16
scicala
Senior Member
 
scicala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit suburb, MI
Posts: 2,996
Default Re: Question for carb experts

BTW, the 4100 pictured is not a Holley. It's an Autolite Ford made carburetor.

Sal
scicala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 04:58 PM   #17
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,838
Post Re: Question for carb experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by scicala View Post

BTW, the 4100 pictured is not a Holley. It's an Autolite Ford made carburetor.

Sal
The FORD 4100 and 2100 were designed by HOLLEY.

I don't think FORD was using the AUTOLITE name yet.

Quote:
In 1961, seeking to enter the profitable aftermarket auto parts business, the Ford Motor Company acquired the Autolite tradename, an Ohio spark plug factory, a Michigan battery facility, limited distribution rights, and the services of several employees. Autolite products became standard original factory equipment in Ford vehicles. A federal antitrust lawsuit was filed against Ford, which dragged on through the remainder of the 1960s, and Ford was forced to sell its Autolite-related assets to the Bendix Corporation by 1973.
SOURCE- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autolite

The carb(s) also went under some design changes in 63/64. I am not sure if FORD bought the rights from HOLLEY or what, but just one example, if you go into the MPC, jets (9533) were the same as HOLLEY prior to 1964 and 1964/ were marked with an F after the jet size (different threads).
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Sung By Frank Sinatra
--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN

Last edited by KULTULZ; 11-15-2017 at 05:14 PM.
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 06:08 PM   #18
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
EDIT-

The fuel inlet is also elongated. Does it also interfere with the heater control valve?
I'm not sure if it did since I couldn't mount it because of the pump linkage binding with it. I am using a '57 specific fuel line that runs from the fuel pump to the carb.

Interesting info about the old 4100 carb. I would have never though it was designed by Holley. It's way too simple to be a Holley.
__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 06:20 PM   #19
Herman Munster
Senior Member
 
Herman Munster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW WA state.
Posts: 529
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
...hmmph...

The 57 4100 was a one year design (HOLLEY) (elongated accelerator pump and divorced choke housing).

I wonder if the 4100 292/312 had a remote mounted heater control valve?

Can you show a photo of your air cleaner asm? I would think it would be the same for the 4100-4150-AFB equipped engines.
I've wondered about a remote mounted heater valve but I haven't been able to find any good parts book illustrations of it.
I'll post a photo of the air cleaner when I get a chance, probably this weekend. I've never been able to find the right air filter element. I've been using one from a DeSoto which fits but not 100% perfect.
__________________
1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic

Last edited by Herman Munster; 11-19-2017 at 07:26 PM.
Herman Munster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2017, 07:23 PM   #20
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 12,059
Default Re: Question for carb experts

Ford and Holley had relations in supply chain clear back to the beginning. They were one of the 4 original suppliers to Ford Motors. They worked together on a lot of stuff over the years but Ford generally made a lot of the units in house with Holley helping to produce overage production. Holley would also help with replacement parts. The Holley brothers never gouged Henry so they got along well with the company for over a 100 years.

The 4100 series were less expensive to produce than the Holley mainstay 4V carbs or the era but FoMoCo occasionally used Holleys for certain applications like performance and heavy duty governed applications.

The big air filter housings were designed to cut down on the sound levels. Most manufacturers employed large housings for this reason.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-20-2017 at 12:07 PM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:39 PM.