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Old 03-28-2016, 10:14 AM   #1
DougVieyra
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Default "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

A little fun here and a bit of ‘creative marketing’ that I recently found on ebay:
“Unrestored Original”; “One of the very last unrestored examples.”
– except for the paint job, upholstery job, new top, new plating, gone thru mechanically including ‘B’ head, etc. Who know what else?
It looks like a very nice car - one I would like to have. But it certainly is not an 'amazing original unrestored example".
(edited & condensed ebay ad below)
________________________________________

Offered here is a 1931 Model A Ford Deluxe 2 door Phaeton 180A. This car is unrestored original. The body was painted sometime in the 1950’s, but it never has been taken apart. Underneath it is 100% original. I put a new top and upholstery in the car 4 years ago. I had the original bumpers re-chromed when I got it. It runs exceptionally well and has been gone through mechanically including new brakes, head studs and head gasket. It’s an amazing original 180A deluxe phaeton that has been preserved over the years. One of the very last unrestored examples.

Last edited by DougVieyra; 03-28-2016 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:23 AM   #2
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

here is the link to the 180A

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...m=162018536176
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Yep, a bit like my Grand Fathers axe. How wonderful to actually own something that my Fathers Father used many years ago. My Dad replaced the blade a few years ago and I replaced the handle.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Its amazing what some people dont understand about " UNRESTORED ORIGNAL " . Does look like a fairly nice car though , BUT .
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Like most of the A's we started with, unrestored, but hardly original.

Survivors, that were not put aside, most often had sealed beam headlights and 16" wheels and tires just to make it through WWII still running. Original sized 19" and 21" tires and original headlights were common consumables hard to get by then and many other broken parts were also replaced with what was easily available. That is why unrestored and truly original is so rare.
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Old 03-28-2016, 02:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

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Alex had that car on this site in the last 2 years and was asking for help.
He is a young man, so some slack is in order. He does all of the internet ads for the Dragones....................
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

If its been repainted it's not "original", no matter how upset one might get.
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Old 03-28-2016, 03:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Is there no integrity in anything a person says anymore ? It is a wonder it was not called a barn find also. Wayne.

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Old 03-28-2016, 05:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Ronn, Post #6: . . . . "Some slack is in order".

Possibly.

But when a car has been repainted, re-upholstered, re-plated, mechanically rebuilt/repaired, and the top replaced - most of us would have a tough time swallowing that it is . . . let's see, how did he phase it -
". . . an amazing un-restored . . . original example."

It is apparent to me that the poster may know a thing or two about 'advertising' (some call it 'the art of the hustle'), but either 'Truth in Advertising" or "knowledge of product" is lacking.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

if it's any consolation Doug, the car has been for sale for well over a year, and it has not sold..............
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

It's got the original Tillotson carb as well.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

0 Miles on restoration—Couldn't get the car to start.

95% Completed—Just needs a frame!

Actual documented miles—Seller just created and printed all the service records last week.

All options—Still has the original AM pushbutton radio and cigarette lighter. (Neither work, of course!)

All original—Right down to the oil, tires, and plugs! Nothing was ever done to the car.

Always garaged—Because the car would never start to back it out of the garage!

Always starts—But has no brakes, so you can't drive it anywhere.

Be the only one on your block—To have a car that really belongs at a salvage yard.

Car has some imperfections—Most people will agree that a rusted through shock tower is an imperfection.

Celebrity owned—Everybody is a star.

Collector's item—If you hang on to it long enough, it might actually be worth something.

Convertible—Roof rusted through, so it was cut off. Not recommended in the rain.

Clean title—The car is a real mess, but the title doesn't even have a smudge on it.

Daily driver—300-Mile round trip.

Drives like a dream—If it drives good, you must be dreaming!

Elderly owned—And they've hit the garage, the tree in the front yard, and the neighbor's car.


Engine blueprinted—) A can of Krylon blue spray paint was recently sprayed on valve covers, air cleaner, hood, battery, hoses, belts, etc.

Engine rebuilt—By the 14 year old kids down the street. They wanted to learn how, and the price was right!

Enjoy cruising—In someone else's car, since this one will never make it across town.

Excellent example—Of what NOT to do when you're restoring a car.

Frame off restoration - Had to, because the frame had rusted through.

Freshly rebuilt engine—Ignore the blue smoke coming from the exhaust, see the pretty new blue paint? (See image above left; also refer to "Engine blueprinted" above.)

Fully equipped - And all of the accessories need to be fixed.

Fully loaded - And so is the owner.

Genuine leather upholstery—More than likely, the seller wouldn't know real leather from vinyl if it brushed up against him and "Mooed!" Ever seen a cow with a petroleum by-product for skin?

Good investment opportunity—For someone else.

Great gas mileage - Won't run, so doesn't use any gas!

Great parts or project car—Bring a big truck, everything is already taken apart and boxed up. Boxes have been stored in three locations, in three different states!

Great running condition—That's what you'll need to be in if you buy this car, it never gets you to your destination!

Ground up restoration—Car sat in a muddy field for 20 years, so it had to be dug out to be moved.

Hurry, won't last!—Even now, Mother Nature has already begun the process of recycling this car.

Hurry! Summer's coming!!—Buy it now and drive it before the weather gets hot, because this thing overheats when the temperature is over 70 degrees! Oh, and the air conditioning doesn't work, either.

Impress all your friends—Your neighbors will all hate you when you unload this car next to the house, but your friends will be impressed with how brave you are for doing it.

I've tried to show everything in the pictures—Of course, the car pictured isn't the car for sale.

Just aligned—But it won't stay aligned with those worn out front suspension parts.

Less than 500 miles on total restoration—Keeps breaking down, just like before the restoration.

Listing this for a friend—Because the friend was too embarrassed to do it themselves!

Looks great—At 70 mph. At night. In the rain.

Looks new—Amazing what a $300 paint job covers up, isn't it?

Lots of NOS parts go with car—NOS = Next Owner Stupid (if he thinks any of these parts will work.)

Make offer—No idea what the car is worth.

Mama's car—Mama was known as "Queen of the Duluth Demo Derby!" She won her last one in this car!

Many new parts—And lots more needed!

Minor oil leak—The Exxon Valdez pales in comparison...

Must see to appreciate—I'm hoping you'll feel sorry for me when you see it, and take it off my hands.

Must sell—Seller is really sick of this pile of junk, and wants to unload it on someone else ASAP!

Must sell due to circumstances beyond my control—There isn't enough money in the world to fix this thing!

Image: 1967 Thunderbird sitting in yardMoving, must sell—The real estate agent says we'll never sell the house with a junk car in the yard. (See example at left.)

My loss is your gain—New owner will feel the same way after 6 months of ownership.

Needs complete restoration—Was at the U-Pick-It Salvage for 25 years, so it needs EVERYTHING!

Needs minor body work and paint—This was before the bus hit it!

Needs minor work—Needs major work.

Needs nothing—New owner, however, will need deep pockets or a high credit limit.

Needs paint—After all the body work is done.

Needs work—Hoping that potential buyers won't think it's as bad as it is. See also "Looks new."

Never smoked in—This is the only good thing the seller can think of to say about the car.

Never smoked in—Unless you count that electrical short back in 1978 that melted the instrument panel.

New car cover—For protection because the convertible top rotted away, the sunroof leaks, the cowl is rusted through, all of the glass is broken, etc.

New quarters installed—Frame, floors, and rest of body still need to be done.

New tires—In 1964.

New sound system—Old one shorted out and caused a dash wiring harness fire.

No engine or transmission—Rusty body shell is all that's left. Refer to "Needs complete restoration.

No expense spared—This refers to the amount of money spent trying to unload...er...sell the car, not restore it.

No time to finish—Going to prison for felony auto theft. (Stole another car, no one would steal this pile of junk!)

None nicer anywhere—(For crushing.)

Not a beater - It's a beater.

Numbers match—Yes indeed, all of the part numbers on this car matched the cars they were installed in at one time.

One of a kind—And thank goodness, because it never runs, and everything is rreeeaaaalllllyyyyyy expensive to fix. If you can find the parts to fix it.

One owner—Unfortunately, the owner never maintained the car and died 20 years ago, leaving it in a field.

Only driven to church on Sunday—You wouldn't believe the sludge in the engine!

Or best offer—Seller just wants it to go away...

Over $25,000 invested—And it still needs another $25,000...

Owned by same family since new—Now everyone in the family knows about the car and doesn't want it, so we're hoping to dump it on some poor dolt who isn't a relative!

Rare color combination—The factory never offered a rusty body with an interior combination of ripped up black vinyl front seats and shredded blue cloth seats in the rear. Has the very rare "no headliner/insulation falling down" option, too!

Rare classic—Even when new, no one wanted it.

Rare classic—They all had rust on the showroom floor, so very few around now.

Rare model—One of only 375,000 built!

Rare option—Rare because it was never offered by the factory.

Ran when parked—Of course, the engine threw a rod at the same time, which is why it's been parked so long!

Ready to restore—Can't get much worse, so there's only one way to go! See also, "Hurry, won't last!"

Rebuilt engine has zero miles on it!—Because we can't get it to start.

Recent tune up—Yep, right after it broke down in 1973. Never got it to start after that.

Restoration started—Took it apart and spread it out all over the garage, or tossed everything that would fit into the trunk, but have no clue if all the parts are still there. Been like this since 1983.

Restoration just completed—Need to sell before all the things that were cobbled together fall apart.

Rough condition—This one is in such bad shape, it does no good to lie about it. Usually accompanied by "Very rare," "Collector's item," or "Lots of NOS parts go with car."

Runs and drives good, but recommend towing—Wants to make sure new owner gets the car off of property before the anti-freeze dilutes the engine oil too much and causes a problem.

Runs good—If rolling down hill—just don't plan on it going anywhere under its own power!

Recently appraised at $35,000—Owner and a few of his buddies got together and decided on this value after having a few beers.

Show winner—Won "Best of Show" last summer at the neighborhood Chili Cook Off. Jimmy's 10-speed bike came in second, and Mary Lou's tricycle took third place.

Solid body—Body is solid bondo, front to rear.

Stunning finish—You'll be stunned too when you see all the rust!

Too many projects—City has ordered me to get rid of all my junk cars.

Unable to finish—This project caused me to have a mental breakdown, and I must sell due to Doctor's orders.

Unable to finish—Wife said either the car goes, or I go!

Uses no oil—Engine seized up, so no chance of any oil being used!

Very clean—Yep, it's clean. Of course the quarters are rusty, the seats are shredded, the carpeting is mildewed, and the glass is cracked, but everything has been cleaned real nice by Mother. Just last weekend.

Very fast—When you compare it to a Yugo with a misfire.

Very rare—This refers to the car getting you where you want to go.

Very rare—This refers to the car starting.

Well maintained—Whenever it quit running, whatever caused it to break down was always fixed. (Of course, nothing else was ever done to the car...)
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Sure looks good with black walls and black wheels.
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:37 PM   #14
DougVieyra
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Ron, Post #9: ". . . the car has been for sale for well over a year, and it has not sold..."
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Thank you Ron, for filling us in on some background of the car and the seller.

In the Real Estate market, if a property does not sell in a year, it usually means that the seller is not seriously interested in selling - just looking for an uniformed buyer to buy at a price above market value. I suspect the same applies to cars like this "Amazing un-restored . . . original example."

Actually, I like everything about the car, except that it is not mine. What I object to is the gross mis-representation of what it actually is.
_______________________________________

Remind me to look VERY CAREFULLY at any car that is being sold by Mike V of Florida ! ! ! (Post #11)
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

You guys can find anything to complain about, can't you? It's certainly not "restored", which in his eyes might make it "unrestored". Sure it might of had a facelift, but the fundamental 'originality' is still there. I hope the car goes to someone who can appreciate it just the way it is.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Jordan, post #14: "It's certainly not "restored"
____________________________________

Well, lets see:
New paint, new upholstery, new top, new chrome, new mechanics, etc.
It could be you are right. Perhaps it is not restored. Sorry, my mistake.

But I hope you can understand how some less knowledgeable novice might mis-interpet the information and default to the analogy "If it walks like a duck, if it squawks like a duck, if it looks like a duck - it just may be a duck".

Besides, I suspect that there are a great many people who have spent considerable time, effort and money, to paint, upholstery, chrome, re-work the mechanics, etc., who would take offense to have their work called a simple 'face lift'. I suspect that at least some of them would feel that they had done a 'restoration'.

And I also suspect that they would not describe the finished product as :
". . . an amazing un-restored . . . original example."

Jordan, I too hope the car goes to someone who can appreciate it just the way it is. Had I the dough, I would be that 'someone'. But in fairness, it should be advertised 'just the way it is' and not represented as
". . . an amazing un-restored . . . original example."
Which is misleading at worst, and mixed information at best.

A better example of "an amazing un-restored original example" can be found on a new thread recently posted today (3/29/'16 at 6:23 pm) by 1955cj5:
Ebay: Worth a look...

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Old 03-29-2016, 10:25 PM   #17
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

It's back, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A-/162018536176

$27,500 and reserve not met!
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

I have two questions on the car:
1. Is the firewall supposed to be black
2. What would be a general fair price for it?

PG
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRG999 View Post
I have two questions on the car:
1. Is the firewall supposed to be black
2. What would be a general fair price for it?

PG
1) No

2) I have not inspected the car (...and pictures often don't tell all of the story!) but probably in the $20-$25k range. I know where there is a 400A in a similar condition in Texas.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: "Unrestored Original" - except for paint, upholstery, top, plating

Alex had this for sale for 25,700. a couple of months back. I guess that is not enough today...................

non runners were going 20k a few years back that needed everything. One just sold on ebay 2 months ago wo top and seats, non running for 12500.

this car should be worth 25k all day long.
just my opinion.
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