Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2020, 01:38 PM   #1
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,363
Default Tie rod and drag link rubbing

I checked under my 28 roadster and noticed that there was some evidence of rubbing between the drag link and tie rod. About 1/4" or so clearance when steering straight ahead, which is not enough. When turned either way, no issue.

Reading in Les Andrews' red book, he said that rubbing is caused by a weak front spring. I don't doubt his advice, but replacing the front spring is a bit of work. It is something I will do if that is the problem. Any other potential causes of this condition? I don't see anywhere where it is rubbing when I turn the wheels, but maybe when I am driving the car?

I saw somewhere that someone was looking at a camera recommendation to record the suspension of their car while driving. That is something I could try.

Bratton's catalog has the measurements for a good spring, but that requires disassembly. I am not opposed to doing that, either, but don't want to if I don't need to.

Thanks
__________________
1924 Model T Coupe
1928 Model A Roadster
1930 Model A Town Sedan
1939 Deluxe Fordor
1945 pickup

Last edited by mhsprecher; 10-08-2020 at 09:34 PM.
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 08:23 PM   #2
1955cj5
Senior Member
 
1955cj5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,490
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

My tie rod/drag link also showed signs of rubbing. All the wear marks were rusty just like the rest of the tie rod so what ever caused it was in the forgotten past. We have owned the ccpu since 1962.

I did replace the front spring with new, but little improvement in the clearance. This ccpu had a 12 leaf front spring and I replaced it with a 10 leaf, so I suppose it was a push.

What helped with the tie rod/drag link clearance was installing a shortened pitman arm.

I like the steering feel and effort needed, it's much better than it was before with the original pitman arm.

I have all new steering arms and the original type steel cups, and king pin bushings and bearings are new.

The picture shows the old tie rod. I punched a hole in it just to see how close it was to failure....

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tie rod worn.JPG (129.8 KB, 48 views)
__________________
Early '29 CCPU that had a 4-speed, but not any more.......in the family since '62
1955cj5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-08-2020, 09:33 PM   #3
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,363
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

Mine is nowhere near that bad. I thought about the shortened pitman arm as a potential solution. Thanks for sharing your experience.
__________________
1924 Model T Coupe
1928 Model A Roadster
1930 Model A Town Sedan
1939 Deluxe Fordor
1945 pickup
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 09:40 PM   #4
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,281
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

Think carefully before you install a shortened pitman arm. My brother in law has just bought his first A and the previous owner installed one. I drove it home for him and what a trial that was! There was about 1/2 a turn free play in the steering wheel and the feel was awful. We went back to the original and the free play was reduced to about 2" and the drive was quite good. I wouldn't have expected such a difference in the freeplay but that is what it was.
I had toyed with the idea but after that experience, I won't do it.
__________________
Accidents hurt. Safety doesn't.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 10:05 PM   #5
1955cj5
Senior Member
 
1955cj5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,490
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

You have to make sure the shortened pitman arm is a tight fit on the sector shaft. I had to clean up the gap in the shortened pitman arm where the bolt pinches it to the sector shaft so the fit was good and tight.

Also, the remainder of my steering, king pins and bushings have been replaced, so everything else is pretty tight.

I first put the shortened arm on a couple years ago, before everything else was rebuilt. I didn't like it then and went back to the original arm. But now I like it.
__________________
Early '29 CCPU that had a 4-speed, but not any more.......in the family since '62

Last edited by 1955cj5; 10-08-2020 at 10:17 PM.
1955cj5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 11:40 PM   #6
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,281
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1955cj5 View Post
You have to make sure the shortened pitman arm is a tight fit on the sector shaft. I had to clean up the gap in the shortened pitman arm where the bolt pinches it to the sector shaft so the fit was good and tight.

Also, the remainder of my steering, king pins and bushings have been replaced, so everything else is pretty tight.

I first put the shortened arm on a couple years ago, before everything else was rebuilt. I didn't like it then and went back to the original arm. But now I like it.
What you say is pretty right. In the example I gave above, everything was good in the front end except the king pins are loose in the axle eyes. I have no doubt that contributed to the issue.
__________________
Accidents hurt. Safety doesn't.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 07:13 AM   #7
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,958
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

My suspicion is that your Model "A" had an incident in its life that bent the front the steering arm. Changing the front spring is not going to fix this problem because the steering arm and drag link are relative to the axle. The steering arm is a forging, so it can be bent without heat. Take the car to a spring shop that services trucks and they will fix it.
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 10:01 AM   #8
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,613
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

Quote:
The picture shows the old tie rod. I punched a hole in it just to see how close it was to failure....
Some tie rods are hollow with solid ends. Sometimes these can be seen by the "weep holes" on the bottom.

Others are solid all the way through. I have both kinds hanging around here.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 10:09 AM   #9
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,257
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

The shortened pitman arm would have nothing to do with the drag link rubbing on wishbone. Somethings bent.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 10:15 AM   #10
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 9,578
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhsprecher View Post
I checked under my 28 roadster and noticed that there was some evidence of rubbing between the drag link and tie rod. About 1/4" or so clearance when steering straight ahead, which is not enough. When turned either way, no issue.

Reading in Les Andrews' red book, he said that rubbing is caused by a weak front spring. I don't doubt his advice, but replacing the front spring is a bit of work. It is something I will do if that is the problem. Any other potential causes of this condition? I don't see anywhere where it is rubbing when I turn the wheels, but maybe when I am driving the car?
If you don't believe this is an issue, then have someone stand on the front bumper and tell us what the clearance is now. When driving, the bumps cause the spring to flex past static loading. It will rub WAY more during driving.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 04:27 PM   #11
duke36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,226
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

Just went thru the exercise of checking steering am, replacing spring, new tie rod and shortened pitman arm; the gap between the 2 parts improved. Check other Barn threads: a shortened pitman arm will usually require an adjustable drag link to get the steering gears centered with the minimal freeplay to solve Snyncro's issue in post 4.. I made my own.
Also the gap from the spring eyes to the axle was enlarged with the new spring. There was a little evidence of wallowing on the top of axle flange which initiated the entire process.
duke36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 08:38 PM   #12
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,363
Default Re: Tie rod and drag link rubbing

"If you don't believe this is an issue, then have someone stand on the front bumper and tell us what the clearance is now. When driving, the bumps cause the spring to flex past static loading. It will rub WAY more during driving."

That is my suspicion. It isn't rubbing when it is sitting still, so it has to be rubbing while driving.
__________________
1924 Model T Coupe
1928 Model A Roadster
1930 Model A Town Sedan
1939 Deluxe Fordor
1945 pickup
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.