Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2020, 12:38 PM   #1
Eagle43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 63
Default Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

I am in the process of restoring a 1952 F1. I plan to put it back to stock but I'd like to be able to keep up with traffic on the freeway. My understanding is that with the regular 3 speed tranny and a 3.92 rear end, a reasonable cruising speed I can expect would be in the 50 -55 range. I have found an Overdrive Transmission out of I believe a 1950 Lincoln and the seller has a similar one in his own F1. He took me for a ride in his truck and it seems to work pretty well but I though that before I hand over my money and take possession I would ask for advice on this forum. Does anyone have experience putting one of these transmissions in a F1? Are there better options that I should investigate? Is there an automatic overdrive transmission that would also work? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 01:11 PM   #2
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 15,302
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Just keep in mind it takes modifications to switch out the transmission, don't think it is a bolt-in.

You might run the numbers, the engine is capable of way more than 50-55 mph with a 3.92 rear axle.

MPH = (RPM x Tire Dia) / (Gear Ratio x 336) & RPM = (MPH x Gear Ratio X 336) / Tire Dia

So, for 29 inch dia tires and say 60 mph the engine rpm would be:

RPM = (60 x 3.92 x 336) / 29 = 2,725 rpm, not that high an rpm

With say a 30 inch tire: RPM = (60 x 3.92 x 336) / 30 =2,634 rpm

Or, for 65 mph : RPM = (65 x 3.92 x 336) / 30 = 2,854 rpm

You can play with the number this way and see what is what. Stock flatheads have max torque @ 2200 rpm and max hp @ 3700 rpm.

Last edited by JSeery; 10-07-2020 at 01:22 PM.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-07-2020, 06:25 PM   #3
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 12,048
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

A Mercury (1949 thru E51) will almost bolt in but is a side shift. It may have a different rear mount. The Lincoln units are the T85 with the R11 overdrive which is also a side shift. They can be adapted but will take a bit more modification since they have the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt pattern. This would require a bell housing to fit up and may also need some rear mount work.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 06:41 PM   #4
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 15,302
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
A Mercury (1949 thru E51) will almost bolt in but is a side shift. It may have a different rear mount. The Lincoln units are the T85 with the R11 overdrive which is also a side shift. They can be adapted but will take a bit more modification since they have the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt pattern. This would require a bell housing to fit up and may also need some rear mount work.
And driveshaft length?
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 06:56 PM   #5
deuce5wndw
Senior Member
 
deuce5wndw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Liberty, KY
Posts: 432
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

1952 truck would be a side shift also so would be very doable. I have a Borg Warner overdrive in one of me cars and love it!
deuce5wndw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 11:49 PM   #6
Aarongriffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Hayward,CA
Posts: 412
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I have a 51 F1 which of course is also a side shift.
I was advised that the overdrive trans was very hard to get mounted into an F1 so I got a rear end out of a ‘72 F100 that is about 3.5:1.
That makes the old V8 geared perfectly unless I stop on a steel hill with a load like a car on a tow bar or on a trailer.
I often run along the freeway at 65 to 70 MPH.
Aarongriffey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2020, 11:58 PM   #7
Aarongriffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Hayward,CA
Posts: 412
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

The standard transmission in the F1 was column shift 51 and later unless they had the four speed or the heavy duty three speed.
The standard three speed column shift was the car transmission but with open driveshaft. Maybe same as ‘49 n 50 Merc without overdrive.
One small problem with the better ratio rear end is that know a little more than before the vehicle needs a synchromesh first. It won’t always keep pulling after turning a sharp turn going up hill. I have come to a stop and shift into first gear.
Aarongriffey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 12:02 AM   #8
Aarongriffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Hayward,CA
Posts: 412
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

The better ratio F100 rear ends are not a bolt in to the F1.
The spring perches must be cut off and relocated, the shocks no longer match up and of coarse the speedometer is off quite a bit.
Otherwise I am pleased that I did the change.
Aarongriffey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 07:21 PM   #9
wga
Senior Member
 
wga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 705
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Have you thought of going to an automatic trans? A friend put a GM700R4 behind his 8ba in a 50 woodie. Loved it. Used an adapter for engine to trans mounting, and a column
shift. 2004R works well too. However in your pickup a floor shift would be easy, and there are several aftermarket companies (Lokar) that can provide the shift linkage for that trans on the floor.
Here is a link I found with a quick google search: https://transmissioncenter.net/shop/...tic-fo1000501/
Some discussion on the other site: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...athead.223261/
__________________
Henry Ford designed the flathead without the aid of a computer.
wga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 12:37 AM   #10
Eagle43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 63
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Thanks everyone for your input. Today I picked up and paid for the overdrive transmission so I guess I'm committed. It's a Borg Warner R-11 and I believe it came out of an early fifties Lincoln. These were an option for cars, the R-10 for small cars and the R-11 for big cars, but not for trucks. Evidently a lot of other manufacturers used their own version of this transmission. It came with the bellhousing so it will bolt right onto the V-8 flathead. I will need to get a different clutch plate and may need to modify the throw out bearing. The mount should line up with the cross member. The driveshaft should fit but I will need a different yoke. It came with the repair manual and Rock Auto stocks the bearings if I need them. I took the cover off and it looks good inside - no visible wear or corrosion. The seller didn't have a lock-out switch but I understand that these are readily available.
Just a little background on the truck. It's a Canadian F1 and they only came with a floor shift and a V-8. In other posts I gave some background to a previous "restoration" done to this truck in which a "butcher" job was done installing a 1963 FE 352 and an automatic transmission. I will need to find a side shift steering column since the column that was in the truck was from the donor car. I also need to find a clutch pedal and linkage. I have found and installed front motor mounts and cross member.
I borrowed and scanned the Repair Manual and made it into a pdf file. I added some articles on this transmission I found on the Internet. If anyone needs a copy just message me. I'm pretty confident that this transmission will work well and it's period correct except not for a truck. The seller said he has had his for at least twenty years and he's had it up to 80 on the highway. He lives close by and promised to help me get it working if I run into trouble.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Overdrive.pdf (271.7 KB, 32 views)
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 09:48 AM   #11
blucar
Senior Member
 
blucar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 1,992
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.
__________________
Bill.... 36 5 win cpe
blucar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 03:09 PM   #12
Eagle43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 63
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Thanks. That's encouraging. I think it will work out well.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2020, 04:11 PM   #13
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 12,048
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

The bell housing on the 1949 through 51 Lincoln was to fit the big 337 Lincoln engine. It won't fit the 8BA family. If it was from a later 317 Y-block Lincoln then it still won't fit. A person may be able to use a late 1951 Mercury Bell housing but it's just a one year deal. That was the last year that the Mercury still had the frame mounted pedals with the standard clutch compensator that rotates the shaft in the bell housing to operate the throw out bearing. I've seen them on Flea-Pay a time or two. If the bell housing lower pan is missing then one from any 1952 or 53 Ford/Mercury car uses the same access pan on the bottom but they have the fulcrum type clutch actuator arm like the earlier Ford cars.

I'm pretty sure the T85 R11 transmission has the same transmission pattern as the Ford car transmissions did in the 50s. As for the rear mount, I'm not sure how it will work with the F1 cross member but I'm sure it can be made to function with some yankee engenuity. If the Lincoln T85 R11 has the 1 3/8" 10-spline input then it will work with the pickup 10 or 11-inch Long type clutch. The driveshaft would likely need to be shortened and I'm not sure if they use the same front knuckle as a Ford pickup but that would be easy to check.

After 1950, all the F1/F100 Ford pickups used the Dana 44 rear axle. The spring pad may be different between the F1 series and F100 series but that is about the only different till they changed away from the 19-spline axles. Brakes are basically the same.

Later in the 60s, the T85 R11 was beefed up with a nodular cast iron case and it has the R11N designation. These transmissions were strong enough to put behind a Ford FE 390 and giver all you got. They were a lot tougher transmission than the old R10.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 10-09-2020 at 04:31 PM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2020, 12:13 AM   #14
Eagle43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 63
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Thanks for the additional information. I just checked and the bell housing seems to fit so it must not be from a Lincoln. I couldn't try bolting it on because I still need to get the bottom housing off. I think I just need to find an 11 inch clutch plate with a 1" 10 spline center since the truck clutch plate has a bigger hole.. I think I can use the other truck clutch parts: pressure plate, throwout bearing, forks, etc. but I won't know for sure until I get things cleaned up. The seller warned me that he had had to get a special adapter plate machined since the car throwout is smaller than the truck throwout when he did his truck 20 years ago but I'm hoping to avoid having to do that. He also thought that I would need a smaller pilot bearing but I think with some polishing that will fit also. I measured the drive shaft and it looks like I just need a short 1 3/16" 16 spline yoke.
I've attached a couple of pages from the Repair Manual. The chart lists the vehicles in which this transmission was an option. You will notice that Canadian trucks were named after their GVW from 1948 to 1950. They then changed to the F1 designation for 1951/2.
The second page gives a description of how the overdrive works. Basically you have a regular 3 speed transmission with the overdrive unit bolted to the end. This is why the mounting bracket lines up with the crossmember like it's supposed to.
Tomorrow I plan to drive to a large swap meet about two hours away and hope to find some more things that I need such as a steering column and clutch pedal.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf OD description.pdf (245.6 KB, 16 views)
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2020, 10:21 AM   #15
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,116
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Can you post a picture of your transmission??
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2020, 11:34 AM   #16
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 12,048
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

If the bell housing fits an 8BA then it would not be from a Lincoln. The Lincoln 337 and 317 Y-blocks are both larger than the 8BA engines. Ford of Canada had some different transmissions for trucks but Mercury and Lincoln stuff was likely produced in the US. Ford of Canada would purchase bare Mercury cars and fit the Monarch trim in Canada. The Meteor was produced in Canada so both Ford and Meteor cars were produced there. The pickups were all produced in Canada and there are some differences from US production but for the most part they followed the same procedures as the US counterparts with the trim being the major difference between Ford and Mercury units.

The T85 transmission is a heavy duty 3-speed side load of Borg Warner design and has a curved shape to the bottom of the shift cover housing. It was the basis for the T10 4-speed. The trans case should have T85 casting marks and the OD housing should have the R11 casting marks on it. These units were used right up into the mid 60s for cars and early 70s for pickups so it may not even be from a Lincoln. The early units had a 1 1/8" 10-spline input and the later units had a 23-spline input. I don't know if any of these were produced in Canada or if there were differences. None that I'm aware of were ever set up to fit a flathead 8BA but I'm sure they can be adapted. It would fit a shoe box ford bell housing but the shoe boxes has a fulcrum arm clutch release. A clutch plate should be available that would work with one of the pickup diameters. I'm not sure what the 49 to 51 Lincoln used or the 52 through 54 317 for that matter.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2020, 08:38 PM   #17
Eagle43
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 63
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

I had another look at the transmission and took some pictures as requested. I was disappointed to discover it is an R-10 and not the heavy duty R-11 and probably didn't come out of a Lincoln as I was told. It still should work fine. The bell housing will bolt on as you can see.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20201010_175450_2a.jpg (58.1 KB, 312 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20201010_175656_5a.jpg (27.3 KB, 306 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20201010_175713_7a.jpg (42.0 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20201010_175630_0a.jpg (44.3 KB, 305 views)

Last edited by Eagle43; 10-10-2020 at 08:44 PM.
Eagle43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2020, 08:42 PM   #18
petehoovie
Senior Member
 
petehoovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,017
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle43 View Post
I had another look at the transmission and took some pictures as requested. I was disappointed to discover it is an R-10 and not the heavy duty R-11 and probably didn't come out of a Lincoln as I was told. It still should work fine. The bell housing will bolt on as you can see. I've included an Internet picture as well.






__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes." - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
petehoovie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 09:31 AM   #19
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 12,048
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

The bell housing appears to be a late 1951 Mercury and that is likely the origin of the transmission as well. The late 51 transmissions have the diamond gears so they are a bit stronger in that respect. The R10 should be fine with a flathead. I don't think you can hurt it easily. You will have to try to break it. That was the set up to get for an F1 pickup with a 3 on the tree shift.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 09:44 AM   #20
40ford
Senior Member
 
40ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cherryville,N.C.
Posts: 412
Default Re: Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

Quote:
Originally Posted by blucar View Post
My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.
Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!
40ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 PM.