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Old 06-15-2020, 12:15 AM   #1
bdtutton
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Default New Front Wheel Bearings

Hello,
First I would like to thank all the great people that answer questions on this forum. I don't personally know any other people in my area with Model As.

When I bought my 1930 Tudor I found that I was unable to remove the inner front wheel bearings from the spindles. I was able to force enough grease into the bearing to make it work for the short term, but I decided to change the bearings and races to make things right. I bought new Timken bearings and races and all seemed to go well until I tried to push the bearings on the spindles.

The reason I could not pull the old bearings off is because the previous owner had peened the spindle to make the inner bearings fit tight. The only way I would have been able to get the new inner bearings on would be to hammer them onto the spindle. I decided to take a little emory cloth and sand down the peening on the spindle. I can now push the bearings on, but I am almost worried that the bearings are too loose.

Here is my question....how tight should the inner bearing be on the spindle? I know I need to be able to pull them on and off the spindle, but I don't want it to be too loose. I can't find info on this....can anyone help?

Thank you....
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Old 06-15-2020, 06:12 AM   #2
Werner
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Hallo,


you can mount the bearing rings with Loctite. If they have to be to remove at some time, you have to heat the rings up with hot air.
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Old 06-15-2020, 06:42 AM   #3
Patrick L.
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

The bearing should be a fairly snug slip fit. If you feel that you sanded too much off then just take a prick punch to the spindle. Two punches in-line at 90 intervals [ 8 punches]. It won't take much to punch them just a little to snug up the bearings. That centers the bearing while just using loctite doesn't.

I know some don't like that idea, but, its an old Ford factory rep tip that was taught to me back in the 50s. It works well.
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

The bearings should be a slip fit as they are supposed to slowly turn when the vehicle is moving. this prevents the bearing from only wearing in one spot (the bottom).
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
The bearing should be a fairly snug slip fit. If you feel that you sanded too much off then just take a prick punch to the spindle. Two punches in-line at 90 intervals [ 8 punches]. It won't take much to punch them just a little to snug up the bearings. That centers the bearing while just using loctite doesn't.

I know some don't like that idea, but, its an old Ford factory rep tip that was taught to me back in the 50s. It works well.

Please use Loctite like Werner said. Punchmarks may have been an official repair method by Ford, but that was in a time where better alternatives weren't available.




Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
The bearings should be a slip fit as they are supposed to slowly turn when the vehicle is moving. this prevents the bearing from only wearing in one spot (the bottom).


I just can't believe THAT. I've never seen or heard of a bearing where the fixed ring should turn on the axle.
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

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They normally just slip on.
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Old 06-16-2020, 09:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

[QUOTEI] just can't believe THAT. I've never seen or heard of a bearing where the fixed ring should turn on the axle.[/QUOTE]

Then how do you explain that the bearing wears all the way around, not just on the bottom?
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Hallo und guten Tag.

I also cannot imagine that the inner or outer ball bearing rings are used with a sliding fit. When I was still in quality control at Ford (40 years ago), the rear axle bearings were pressed together with a hard press fit with an oversize of 8 m. This is the way to avoid uncontrolled twisting of the outer and inner rings.

The wear of the ball bearing all around has its origin in the typical rolling bearing construction. In the long time course of the innumerable revolutions, the surfaces of the balls and their track path gradually harden, they become "brittle". At some point, a tiny dot breaks off on the surface of a ball. This now rough ball shaves off the track and therefore gradually all ball faces and the bearing grooves are rough and the ball bearing is totally destroyed.
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavArian View Post
Please use Loctite like Werner said. Punchmarks may have been an official repair method by Ford, but that was in a time where better alternatives weren't available.








I just can't believe THAT. I've never seen or heard of a bearing where the fixed ring should turn on the axle.



I still do it that way and will continue. Loc-tite will be fine once the punch is used. Loc-tite will not center the bearing.
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:31 AM   #10
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

The bearing centers itself to the other one the moment you tighten the nut. If the bearing is 5/100 mm off-center from the axle doesn't matter.
For that fact I assume it wouldn't even matter if the bearings were 5/100 mm off-center from each other.
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavArian View Post
The bearing centers itself to the other one the moment you tighten the nut. If the bearing is 5/100 mm off-center from the axle doesn't matter.
For that fact I assume it wouldn't even matter if the bearings were 5/100 mm off-center from each other.




Geez. I'm talking the cone to the spindle. Loc-tite won't take up that slop. But, you do what you want.
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Hallo und guten Tag.

I also cannot imagine that the inner or outer ball bearing rings are used with a sliding fit. When I was still in quality control at Ford (40 years ago), the rear axle bearings were pressed together with a hard press fit with an oversize of 8 m. This is the way to avoid uncontrolled twisting of the outer and inner rings.

The wear of the ball bearing all around has its origin in the typical rolling bearing construction. In the long time course of the innumerable revolutions, the surfaces of the balls and their track path gradually harden, they become "brittle". At some point, a tiny dot breaks off on the surface of a ball. This now rough ball shaves off the track and therefore gradually all ball faces and the bearing grooves are rough and the ball bearing is totally destroyed.
Werner, the front wheel bearings are tapered rollers, not ball bearings.
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Old 06-17-2020, 01:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Yes Katy, that's right!

I wrote 'ball'. What I wrote also applies to barrel bearings and conical inclined rollers/tapered rolls.

(We call all these bearing costructions with the term "wallowing bearing".)
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

https://www.timken.com/wp-content/up...el-Bearing.pdf
This is a PDF. Timken, you know ...

"Loose inner race fit helps ease assembly and bearing adjustment. The loose fit allows the inner race to easily slide along the spindle while tightening the nut during bearing adjustment.Avoid excessively loose fits to prevent misalignment within the wheel end. Misalignment will cause premature wear of bearings and seals. Measure spindle diameter during wheel end service to ensure that there is not excessive spindle wear. Inspect the top and bottom of the spindle. The underside may show wear even when the top appears in good condition. Replace the spindle if the spindle diameter is less than the OEMs specifications."
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Old 06-18-2020, 05:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: New Front Wheel Bearings

Their tolerances say max. 30 m play between spindle and cone, I do not think that is enough to let the cone slide on the spindle when everything's assembled.
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