Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2019, 01:00 PM   #21
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,332
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Baskin III Pa. View Post
I have 12,000 mile on the kit shown old 31 and works great.After 1000 miles oil is starting to get dark.
Jim


Anything else needed?


I seem to remember something about a need to convert to a pressurized oil system when running a filter, or perhaps I am confusing running a filter and pressurized oil system when going to insert bearings?


How many miles did your oil start getting dark before adding a filter?
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 06:41 PM   #22
Jim Baskin III Pa.
Senior Member
 
Jim Baskin III Pa.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lock Haven Pa.
Posts: 244
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
Jim


Anything else needed?

No, very easy o install


I seem to remember something about a need to convert to a pressurized oil system when running a filter, or perhaps I am confusing running a filter and pressurized oil system when going to insert bearings?

Mine is stock with the babbatt bearings


How many miles did your oil start getting dark before adding a filter?
Usually around 500 to 600miles it was dark without the filter.And I have gone as much as 1400 mile with the filter ,just depends which roads I drive.
Jim Baskin III Pa. is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-26-2019, 06:50 PM   #23
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,332
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Thanks Jim, wanted the comparison. On my truck at 500 miles mine is black, not running a filter. I keep hearing about people with no filter getting 800-1000 miles before it turns black - no filter.


May consider putting on a filter next year, have resisted so far thinking it is not needed with 500 mile oil changes. But has always bothered me that my oil is so black at 500 miles. Even with rebuilt motor, Berts carb, and decent plug reads.


Have considered changing from Shell T4 to something different, have heard claims that Rotella t4 looks dirty sooner than other oils.
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2019, 09:48 PM   #24
briphaeton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 237
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

I noticed after rebuilding my block and sealing it with Glyptal the oil stayed clean for a long time with out a filter. Cast iron has a lot of carbon.
briphaeton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2019, 11:28 AM   #25
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,815
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Years ago I had an F-150 w/a 300 CID 6 cylinder. After about 200,000 miles or so I replaced all the main and rod bearing with .001" undersize inserts and also replaced the oil pump w/a high volume pump. After that the oil stayed cleaner a lot longer. I suspect that was due to more oil going through the filter.
__________________
Play it again Sam.

Last edited by katy; 11-27-2019 at 11:30 AM. Reason: cleaned up
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2019, 02:27 AM   #26
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
The contamination of the oil by foreign dust etc. is trapped by the filter.

But this has little influence on the color of the oil. Oil gets darker due to the soot from the combustion entering the oil circuit. If this soot is held in suspension by the oil additives so that it can not settle into the interior of the engine, the oil quickly turns black because the dissolved thin soot can not be retained much by the filter.

I would like to say that the color of the oil is hardly dependent on whether a filter is installed or not. The darkening depends on the formation of very fine soot, which occurs especially with a rich mixture on idle and cold running. If you use a good mineral oil over API "SC", the soot remains in suspension and will be flushed out the next time you change oil. In non-cleaning oils (API "AA" or "AB"), the soot inside settles and gradually decomposes into tar in the sump.
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)

Last edited by Werner; 11-30-2019 at 02:39 AM.
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 11:31 AM   #27
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
I used one of those but the copper tube didn't fit like it was supposed to, I fabricated a tube that would fit using the supplied fittings and the filter seems to work fine.
Katy, can you please explain it or is it possible to show a picture?

I have a unknown part at the end of the oil line in the valve chamber. I don't know the sense. Anyone a hint?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010552.jpg (62.1 KB, 123 views)
File Type: jpg P1010554 - Kopie.jpg (65.2 KB, 111 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 11:36 AM   #28
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,815
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Katy, can you please explain it or is it possible to show a picture?
Sorry but I don't have a picture of it. From memory the supplied tube was similar to the one in your picture but just wouldn't fit in between the oil hole and the front of the block and curve up to the proper position to mate up with the valve chamber cover., I had to fabricate one with tighter bends in it.

I have no idea as to what that fitting in your block is for. Hopefully some one can tell us.
__________________
Play it again Sam.
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 06:27 PM   #29
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Good evening! Thank you for the informations.

I dismantled the mysterious part, it doesn't make sense in my eyes.

The filter installation has now been completed. Yes, there were a few twists until the copper pipe fit exactly. But the conversion kit is precisely manufactured.

The M & H oil filter is not optimal. It has a non-return flatter valve which unnecessarily obstructs the narrow-breasted oil pump. I am therefore looking for a suitable filter without a fw valve.

I will report!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010582.jpg (75.9 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg P1010597.jpg (81.4 KB, 74 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 03:38 PM   #30
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Hallo,

the filter set is well thought. It suit fits well.

Katy's suggestion is also helpful.

Thank you for your help on this chapter!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010609.jpg (55.0 KB, 108 views)
File Type: jpg P1010672.jpg (57.9 KB, 102 views)
File Type: jpg P1010668.jpg (59.8 KB, 95 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2019, 04:07 PM   #31
Ak Sourdough
Member
 
Ak Sourdough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 92
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
Years ago I had an F-150 w/a 300 CID 6 cylinder. After about 200,000 miles or so I replaced all the main and rod bearing with .001" undersize inserts and also replaced the oil pump w/a high volume pump. After that the oil stayed cleaner a lot longer. I suspect that was due to more oil going through the filter.



Modern engines Since the late 50's all use full flow filtering. All the oil goes through the filter after it leaves the pump and before it gets to the bearings, including the Ford 300.



As Werner said, the filter will not remove the black color from the oil. The black is from carbon, generally from too rich a mixture. The carbon particles are too fine to be trapped in the filter. The filter removes metal and abrasive particles. If it was made of fine enough material to catch the carbon it would plug up and bypass in a very short time.



Detergent oils are misnamed, or at least the name is misinterpreted by most people. Detergent oil will not clean your engine the way laundry detergent cleans your clothes. It contains additives that hold the carbon and other contaminants in suspension so they can be removed from the engine when the oil is changed.
Ak Sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 10:35 AM   #32
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,815
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

[QUOTEAs Werner said, the filter will not remove the black color from the oil. The black is from carbon, generally from too rich a mixture. The carbon particles are too fine to be trapped in the filter. The filter removes metal and abrasive particles. If it was made of fine enough material to catch the carbon it would plug up and bypass in a very short time.][/QUOTE]

Centrifugal oil filters do a good job of removing particulate oil contaminants. They're used on a lot of diesel engines.
__________________
Play it again Sam.

Last edited by katy; 12-19-2019 at 10:35 AM. Reason: clean up
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2019, 01:32 PM   #33
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Another note about the filter cartridge:

The backflow valve is a rubber membrane. This reduces the flow rate a little bit. Therefore I perforated the membrane so that more oil can flow.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010736.jpg (96.1 KB, 55 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2019, 12:31 AM   #34
The Master Cylinder
Senior Member
 
The Master Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 505
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Another note about the filter cartridge:

The backflow valve is a rubber membrane. This reduces the flow rate a little bit. Therefore I perforated the membrane so that more oil can flow.
Not sure why you would have to do that. I'm sure the discharge pressure of the positive displacement oil pump would overcome any minute amount of resistance. But if it makes you feel better, go for it.
__________________
The Master Cylinder

Enjoying life at the beach in SoCal...
The Master Cylinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2019, 06:13 AM   #35
Phred
Senior Member
 
Phred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 292
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Werner,
How did you perforate the rubber without getting debris into the filter?
Peace
Phred
Phred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2019, 02:48 PM   #36
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Guten Abend Phred.
It's a bit fiddly. Pull with tweezer and cut off with a scalpel.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010742.jpg (52.0 KB, 19 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 08:37 AM   #37
brokenspoke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Anderson, Texas
Posts: 192
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zUZFY4A4q7RVypi67
brokenspoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 08:43 AM   #38
brokenspoke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Anderson, Texas
Posts: 192
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenspoke View Post
This is how I did mine
brokenspoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 10:50 AM   #39
denis4x4
Senior Member
 
denis4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Durango CO
Posts: 1,160
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

At $172, I can afford a number of oil changes! Sold the aFORDable kit here years ago. Because I have headers, I had the remote mounting kit. Much easier to change the filters. Cut open the filters twice and didn't see enough crud to justify the cost.
__________________
No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck!
denis4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2020, 01:06 PM   #40
Werner
Senior Member
 
Werner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany, near Aachen
Posts: 881
Default Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover

Supplement

These MANN filters have no non-return valve ex works:
W 940/21 No non-return valve, no bypass valve
W 940/71 No non-return valve, but with bypass valve 2,5 bar
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
Werner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.