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Old 07-15-2018, 11:05 AM   #1
37Flat
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Default Head Studs Problem

I didn't do a very good job of explaining this before, hopefully this is better. The picture of the nuts shows them finger tightened, there is no head gasket in place. You can see that the nuts only go on half way. I pulled the studs and remeasured and they are what the parts catalogue says they should be. They were all seated properly. Only the 4 6066 studs are long enough to use. Measuring through the stud holes, the top of the head is 1.937" thick, the bottom is 1.25". Are these heads for some reason thicker than others? Are there longer studs available? Would appreciate any help as I am stumped.
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File Type: jpg Head Nuts.jpg (47.9 KB, 128 views)
File Type: jpg Head RH.jpg (75.6 KB, 92 views)
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Senior moment.

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Old 07-15-2018, 11:15 AM   #3
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Iron heads didn't have washers, how is the fit without washers
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:39 AM   #4
Ed Pitts
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

X2 on the washers. Only used on aluminum heads.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:55 PM   #5
37Flat
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
Iron heads didn't have washers, how is the fit without washers
Well, I took the head off, replaced the head gasket, put the head on without washers and when the nuts are just tightened, not torqued, they come within 1 and a half threads of being flush with the top of the studs. If that sounds right, I'm good to go. Thank you.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

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Differences in head studs apparent length is usually due to how far the block end of the studs were turned down sometime when the engine was overhauled. A number of the stud holes actually enter the water jacket. At our shop we see threads in the block that have been distorted by being chased with a threading tap instead of a thread cleaning tap, extending threads further than originally. Old cast iron can be very fragile.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:57 PM   #7
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 37Flat View Post
Well, I took the head off, replaced the head gasket, put the head on without washers and when the nuts are just tightened, not torqued, they come within 1 and a half threads of being flush with the top of the studs. If that sounds right, I'm good to go. Thank you.

I would say that you are indeed good to go. Remembering the 3 heat cycles to go through for checking and retorque, after initial fit and torque.
Best of luck for leak free.
Phil NZ
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

I have some studs that are like that on my motor.

I don't know about yours, but if the studs have only just been fitted, I'd be tempted to fine tune them. If the studs are in blind holes (are any?) I'd put a blob of weld on the end of the stud and use that to set the height of the stud. If a through hole, maybe some sort of stud lock goop could be applied and the stud set in to a specific length. Maybe doing that on all would be better than welding.

Never done either of the above, just thinking what would I do in your shoes. (Assuming you don't want to buy new studs.

I didn't fancy removing mine, so I put up with some of them looking like yours. They are holding a 45-50 lb ft torque all right.

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Old 07-15-2018, 08:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Could someone have used a tap to enlarge the threaded holes?
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

lose the washers...

Last edited by Tinker; 07-16-2018 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:04 AM   #11
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Building these for a living we strongly recommend using washers between the head bolt holes and the nuts regardless of the casting material, aluminum or iron.

We would never run the aluminum w/o the washers. It helps "save" the castings and stops the nuts from "digging" into them as well.

We have "special" thin washers specific for this application, we use them on all the 100% stock-appearing SB and BB Chevy's we build and we use them on all our Flathead's as well! They are barely noticeable when installed.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a couple shots of some fasteners with them, you can see how "thin" they really are!
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File Type: jpg Flathead Head Bolts-Washers A.JPG (68.1 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg Flathead Head Bolts-Washers B.JPG (57.5 KB, 57 views)
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

I am sorry, I don't have a solution for you and I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I would not be comfortable using them as is.
Again just my opinion.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Ya know, I'm "Not George" either, but I agree with him.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

I am kind of crude. I would measure and figure out how far they need to be out of the deck. Set them and a little lock tight and done.
If they are the overall right length, they will have proper engagement in the block. I would not have nuts without threads showing.
The fine threads in the nut means the nut will want to turn on the stud rather than the stud turning on the course threads in the block.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

I'm with Andy. I'm kinda crude too.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I am kind of crude. I would measure and figure out how far they need to be out of the deck. Set them and a little lock tight and done.
If they are the overall right length, they will have proper engagement in the block. I would not have nuts without threads showing.
The fine threads in the nut means the nut will want to turn on the stud rather than the stud turning on the course threads in the block.
Crude I can handle. Is this something you've done with success? I assume the lock tight negates the need to use thread sealer. Should be interesting. Thanks to all for the suggestions.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

We use a Permatex sealer on the block end of the head studs. Using a expoxy product to seal the studs is overkill, and can make stud removal in the future difficult to impossible.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:29 PM   #18
37Flat
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by supereal View Post
We use a Permatex sealer on the block end of the head studs. Using a expoxy product to seal the studs is overkill, and can make stud removal in the future difficult to impossible.
After all I've read, I was thinking Loctite Red 272, or Permatex Red. Not really experienced with either. Any pros or cons?
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

Just wondering why are you using studs? bolts solve all this.....X2 for permatex #2

bolts you know the way Henry assembled them.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Head Studs Problem

If you have the proper Ford studs, there is a shoulder that will seat at the head surface. They can not be screwed in too far.
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