The Ford Barn

Kirby1374 · 06-27-2010, 12:59 AM

Hey all, I'm working on a 30 Tudor and when I started taking things apart I found out that the speedometer cable had broken. The speedometer piece that the cable turns did not turn (that's why the cable snapped). I have since removed the speedo from the housing, lightly lubed up the shafts and bushings and the cable piece will turn with an electric drill and the whole thing works. Speed, odometer, trip meter.
I can just turn the input with my fingers slowly, it is still very tight.

So; here is my question.
how or what do I take apart and clean and lube to get it to turn freely?
Thanks in advance,
Aaron

J Franklin · 06-27-2010, 01:49 AM

If the part is die-cast maybe it has swelled. What model speedo are you working on?

Aerocraft · 06-27-2010, 06:06 AM

If it is a Stewart-Warner you will see a oblong metal plate on the bottom of the speedometer just in front of the fitting for attaching the drive cable and housing. Carefully remove that small plate and you will have access to the bevel drive gears which were originally greased. Remove all of the old grease. I then, with the unit upside down, fill the cavity with my favorite penetrating lubricant and turn the speedometer in the normal direction until the bearings loosen up. Once free, drain and flush the cavity and grease. The oval plate can be reinstalled with super glue. I also recommend removing the unit from its case and cleaning and lubricating the bronze bushings.

Years ago, I was lucky enough to find a S-W testing machine in an antique store and have been using it to help out the local clubs. It is designed to calibrate the speedometers. Gar Williams

Model A Speedster · 06-27-2010, 07:12 AM

You've got to free up the internal workings of the speedometer so that it spins freely. Chances are that the vertical shaft that runs up to the speed wheel is binding toward the top, probably because the pot metal has swelled. Doing this is up to you, but you might try removing the speed indicator (four screws) and placing a large punch on the shaft where the revolving magnet is. Holding the speedometer in your hand, give the punch a good thwack (or two) with a hefty hammer. No guarantees, but it has worked upon occasion for me. Lubricate and reassemble.

Tom Wesenberg · 06-27-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model A Speedster

You've got to free up the internal workings of the speedometer so that it spins freely. Chances are that the vertical shaft that runs up to the speed wheel is binding toward the top, probably because the pot metal has swelled. Doing this is up to you, but you might try removing the speed indicator (four screws) and placing a large punch on the shaft where the revolving magnet is. Holding the speedometer in your hand, give the punch a good thwack (or two) with a hefty hammer. No guarantees, but it has worked upon occasion for me. Lubricate and reassemble.

I always do exactly the proceedure Gar mentioned, then if it still doesn't free up I have added the step you just mentioned and that has freed up a couple of tight shafts. HOWEVER I DON'T RECOMMEND USING A BIG HAMMER AND GIVING IT A HARD WACK. The shaft is very thin at the threaded end and is easily broken by too hard a tap on the punch. I give it a few fairly light taps, checking after each tap to see if it's free enough.

I have a speedometer that I bought at a swap meet with a broken shaft. One of the bushings came out of place and stuck to the magnet and snapped the wheel and top of the shaft off. That's how I know how thin it is up there.

Kirby1374 · 06-27-2010, 10:22 AM

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thanks! I was thinking of removing the plate. My is kind of peened over the plate on the edges so I didn't want to ruin anything but I will remove, clean and grease. It seems to me to be stuck on the bottom end so this might just do the trick.
Aaron

Kirby1374 · 06-27-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

If the part is die-cast maybe it has swelled. What model speedo are you working on?

oops, my bad. It is a Stewart-Warner oval

30cabriolet · 06-27-2010, 12:05 PM

How loose should the speedometer shafts be? The vertical shaft on my speedo has some drag to it, should it spin freely or is it supposed to have some drag to keep the speedo from jumping? Same question on the input shaft, how much torque should it take to move spin the gears?

Aerocraft · 06-27-2010, 12:32 PM

The shaft should spin freely. If you have good feeling in your fingers, you will feel the "drag" of the gearing. Gar Williams

Colorado Greg · 06-27-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30cabriolet

How loose should the speedometer shafts be? The vertical shaft on my speedo has some drag to it, should it spin freely or is it supposed to have some drag to keep the speedo from jumping? Same question on the input shaft, how much torque should it take to move spin the gears?

I have the same issue with my oval SW. I was at Berts in Denver yesterday and they told me you need to be able to turn the input shaft with your pinkie. They showed my a good speedo and it turns very easy.

Colorado Greg · 06-27-2010, 12:36 PM

[QUOTE=Aerocraft;34995]fill the cavity with my favorite penetrating lubricant

Sounds like I should know this but I'm a newbie. What is your "favorite penetrating lubricant"?

1928Pickuppain · 06-27-2010, 12:50 PM

I just rebuilt my seward warner off my 28. mine was frosen right up. You need to compleatley dissasemble it. After you remove thr odomiter wheels wich one is held on by a plate with a common heas screw and the lager one is heled on by a pin you need to remove the worm gears. to do this take a small punch abut the sized of the brass puching and lightley tap them out but becarfull though on each worn shaft one bushing is lager than the one on the other side. puch the small one though the big one other wize you will brake a tooth. after you work gear shafts are removed. Next you have to remove the elbo gear at the bottom. deep down you will see a brass seat that holds the part that the cable goes into there is two holes dilled into it for a tool to set in there and unscrew it. i find just useing two alen wrenches that int in the holes snug is fine. then take a therd and use it at leverage two unscrew them. once removed you are down to your shaft. after a good cleaning you wiil see one gear at the bottom of the shat set the spedo body in a vice or on a block of wood with a large enogh whole to let the drive magnit wheel to drop. then take a 3/32 punch and ut it in the dimple in the senter of the gear and tap untill the shaft slides out and the gear falls out. now that you have the main shaft remove soak it all in some amona over night. then wet sand the shaft (very lightley) with some 1500 grit emery paper. then reasemble the main shat gear will need to be presed baco on the shat useing a vice and a cleave that will fit over it. This is the only way to do it right.

Richard Lorenz · 06-27-2010, 03:10 PM

I worked on a frozen speedometer and had to do what 1920P*** described. I believe that he did not mention that the oval plate that covers the gear had to be removed. That shaft gear is held in place by splines and a flare of the end of the shaft. I had to drill away the flare in order to get my shaft to move. After cleaning I used JB Weld to help hold the gear on the shaft, but I have not run the speedometer on a car to see how long it holds up. For the next tight one that I work on, I will try to weaken the flare and get the shaft to move only slightly. I believe that the main problem with these old speedometers is the swelling of the pot metal. I believe that a slight movement of the shaft in the gear will allow cleaning using solvents and a slow-turning.

Model A Speedster · 06-27-2010, 06:22 PM

Tom Wesenberg, I,ve read many of your posts, and I respect your opinions and knowledge. You're right, a heavy "hit" certainly does the speedometer no good. You mention a threaded end of the vertical shaft. Which end is threaded, the upper (magnet) or the lower (gear)? How do you go about loosening the threads? I might also give 1928Pickuppain's suggestions. I'm finding out the more we think we know, the more we find we don't. Thanks!

Tom Wesenberg · 06-27-2010, 11:29 PM

The top end is threaded. I've never removed the bottom bevel gear because I don't have the tool to fit the special nut. I have removed many of the thin oval plates to clean out the hard old grease. I use a stack of super magnets and pull the cover off. Sometimes I might have to pull and use an exacto knife to help pop it off. After cleaning the old grease out I use some oil and spin the gears for several minutes, then drain the oil and add some Mystik JT-6 high temp grease or lubriplate white assembly grease.

Aerocraft · 06-28-2010, 06:07 AM

[QUOTE=Colorado Greg;35195]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerocraft

fill the cavity with my favorite penetrating lubricant

Sounds like I should know this but I'm a newbie. What is your "favorite penetrating lubricant"?

My favorite lubricant is whatever is on the shelf. I don't want to cloud the subject at hand with something that could become an opinionated issue. Gar Williams

06-27-2010, 12:59 AM	#1
Kirby1374 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coquille, Or Posts: 280	the case of the sticky speedo Hey all, I'm working on a 30 Tudor and when I started taking things apart I found out that the speedometer cable had broken. The speedometer piece that the cable turns did not turn (that's why the cable snapped). I have since removed the speedo from the housing, lightly lubed up the shafts and bushings and the cable piece will turn with an electric drill and the whole thing works. Speed, odometer, trip meter. I can just turn the input with my fingers slowly, it is still very tight. So; here is my question. how or what do I take apart and clean and lube to get it to turn freely? Thanks in advance, Aaron

06-27-2010, 01:49 AM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,976	Re: the case of the sticky speedo If the part is die-cast maybe it has swelled. What model speedo are you working on?

06-27-2010, 06:06 AM	#3
Aerocraft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,387	Re: the case of the sticky speedo If it is a Stewart-Warner you will see a oblong metal plate on the bottom of the speedometer just in front of the fitting for attaching the drive cable and housing. Carefully remove that small plate and you will have access to the bevel drive gears which were originally greased. Remove all of the old grease. I then, with the unit upside down, fill the cavity with my favorite penetrating lubricant and turn the speedometer in the normal direction until the bearings loosen up. Once free, drain and flush the cavity and grease. The oval plate can be reinstalled with super glue. I also recommend removing the unit from its case and cleaning and lubricating the bronze bushings. Years ago, I was lucky enough to find a S-W testing machine in an antique store and have been using it to help out the local clubs. It is designed to calibrate the speedometers. Gar Williams

06-27-2010, 07:12 AM	#4
Model A Speedster Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 91	Re: the case of the sticky speedo You've got to free up the internal workings of the speedometer so that it spins freely. Chances are that the vertical shaft that runs up to the speed wheel is binding toward the top, probably because the pot metal has swelled. Doing this is up to you, but you might try removing the speed indicator (four screws) and placing a large punch on the shaft where the revolving magnet is. Holding the speedometer in your hand, give the punch a good thwack (or two) with a hefty hammer. No guarantees, but it has worked upon occasion for me. Lubricate and reassemble. __________________ Any car can drip oil, but for a real puddle, it takes a Model A.

06-27-2010, 10:22 AM	#6
Kirby1374 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coquille, Or Posts: 280	Re: the case of the sticky speedo Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) thanks! I was thinking of removing the plate. My is kind of peened over the plate on the edges so I didn't want to ruin anything but I will remove, clean and grease. It seems to me to be stuck on the bottom end so this might just do the trick. Aaron

06-27-2010, 12:05 PM	#8
30cabriolet Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 130	Re: the case of the sticky speedo How loose should the speedometer shafts be? The vertical shaft on my speedo has some drag to it, should it spin freely or is it supposed to have some drag to keep the speedo from jumping? Same question on the input shaft, how much torque should it take to move spin the gears?

06-27-2010, 12:32 PM	#9
Aerocraft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,387	Re: the case of the sticky speedo The shaft should spin freely. If you have good feeling in your fingers, you will feel the "drag" of the gearing. Gar Williams

06-27-2010, 12:36 PM	#11
Colorado Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 241	Re: the case of the sticky speedo [QUOTE=Aerocraft;34995]fill the cavity with my favorite penetrating lubricant Sounds like I should know this but I'm a newbie. What is your "favorite penetrating lubricant"? __________________ "Betsy doesn't leak oil - she just marks her spot" Last edited by Colorado Greg; 06-27-2010 at 12:45 PM.

06-27-2010, 12:50 PM	#12
1928Pickuppain Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Billerica, Ma Posts: 461	Re: the case of the sticky speedo I just rebuilt my seward warner off my 28. mine was frosen right up. You need to compleatley dissasemble it. After you remove thr odomiter wheels wich one is held on by a plate with a common heas screw and the lager one is heled on by a pin you need to remove the worm gears. to do this take a small punch abut the sized of the brass puching and lightley tap them out but becarfull though on each worn shaft one bushing is lager than the one on the other side. puch the small one though the big one other wize you will brake a tooth. after you work gear shafts are removed. Next you have to remove the elbo gear at the bottom. deep down you will see a brass seat that holds the part that the cable goes into there is two holes dilled into it for a tool to set in there and unscrew it. i find just useing two alen wrenches that int in the holes snug is fine. then take a therd and use it at leverage two unscrew them. once removed you are down to your shaft. after a good cleaning you wiil see one gear at the bottom of the shat set the spedo body in a vice or on a block of wood with a large enogh whole to let the drive magnit wheel to drop. then take a 3/32 punch and ut it in the dimple in the senter of the gear and tap untill the shaft slides out and the gear falls out. now that you have the main shaft remove soak it all in some amona over night. then wet sand the shaft (very lightley) with some 1500 grit emery paper. then reasemble the main shat gear will need to be presed baco on the shat useing a vice and a cleave that will fit over it. This is the only way to do it right.

06-27-2010, 03:10 PM	#13
Richard Lorenz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 447	Re: the case of the sticky speedo I worked on a frozen speedometer and had to do what 1920P*** described. I believe that he did not mention that the oval plate that covers the gear had to be removed. That shaft gear is held in place by splines and a flare of the end of the shaft. I had to drill away the flare in order to get my shaft to move. After cleaning I used JB Weld to help hold the gear on the shaft, but I have not run the speedometer on a car to see how long it holds up. For the next tight one that I work on, I will try to weaken the flare and get the shaft to move only slightly. I believe that the main problem with these old speedometers is the swelling of the pot metal. I believe that a slight movement of the shaft in the gear will allow cleaning using solvents and a slow-turning.

06-27-2010, 06:22 PM	#14
Model A Speedster Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 91	Re: the case of the sticky speedo Tom Wesenberg, I,ve read many of your posts, and I respect your opinions and knowledge. You're right, a heavy "hit" certainly does the speedometer no good. You mention a threaded end of the vertical shaft. Which end is threaded, the upper (magnet) or the lower (gear)? How do you go about loosening the threads? I might also give 1928Pickuppain's suggestions. I'm finding out the more we think we know, the more we find we don't. Thanks! __________________ Any car can drip oil, but for a real puddle, it takes a Model A.

06-27-2010, 11:29 PM	#15
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: the case of the sticky speedo The top end is threaded. I've never removed the bottom bevel gear because I don't have the tool to fit the special nut. I have removed many of the thin oval plates to clean out the hard old grease. I use a stack of super magnets and pull the cover off. Sometimes I might have to pull and use an exacto knife to help pop it off. After cleaning the old grease out I use some oil and spin the gears for several minutes, then drain the oil and add some Mystik JT-6 high temp grease or lubriplate white assembly grease.