39 coupe

[adileo]

Hi Guys

dual edelbrock 94 carbs (rebuilt by Charlie few years ago)
Bubba 11A distro
Skip coil
Electric fuel pump (manual pump removed)
New plugs
New condenser


Car started right up after sitting over a week. After warmed up and driving it started bucking on me bad. I made it back to the garage. I thought it was fuel related. I pulled the fuel hose off to carbs and turned on switch to the electric pump and it was pumping fuel. I then took the air filters off and put carb sync on both carbs and they were perfectly in sync. The car idled nice, but at higher RPMs it was breaking up. I began to move the vacuum line (in the Offy manifold to distro) and the car stalled. It now will not restart. I could be wrong but I don't think the vacuum line would prevent a restart.

I am now thinking maybe spark plug wires?

Please note, I already changed the condenser....

looking for your ideas......

[flatjack9]

New condensors have been known to be bad.

[STEVE O]

If it was vacuum on the line when you pulled it, the points plate shifted and lost connection or ground inside.

[drolston]

Step one: pull a plug wire and see if it will jump half an inch with a nice blue spark, when cranking. If not, start at the coil; should have battery voltage with the points open, and about 1/4 less with the points closed (~6.0, ~4.5). Best to turn the engine over by hand (wrench on crank nut or rock the car in high gear, coil secondary (high tension) pulled out).

If no voltage at the battery side of the coil, work back through the ballast resistor and ignition switch to the battery to find the loss of voltage.

If low voltage and not jumping up and down when cranking, disconnect the coil wire that connects to the distributor and see if the voltage comes up to battery voltage; if so, the points are stuck closed or the wire or condenser is shorted to ground.

If battery voltage at the coil does not drop when turning engine to close points, the connection to points is bad; wire broken or bad connection at coil to distributor wire, or more likely points not closing or burned/bad contact at points.

Good luck!

[adileo]

Thanks for the very detailed advise. I’m by myself so some test I am unable to do until I have a friends help.

I put a volt meter on coil. Turned on key and got 6.1.

I had a spare coil & condenser and switched out the ones on the car.

Still cranks strong but won’t start.

[Phil Gillespie]

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Originally Posted by adileo

Thanks for the very detailed advise. I’m by myself so some test I am unable to do until I have a friends help.

I put a volt meter on coil. Turned on key and got 6.1.

I had a spare coil & condenser and switched out the ones on the car.

Still cranks strong but won’t start.

Just to check for fuel. Air cleaner off, Look down carb while operating accelerator. To verify fuel delivery bown carb barrel.
Have had similar non start but with electric fuel pump this normally takes care of the " empty float chamber at carb " for non start.
Phil NZ

[4dFord/SC]

Originally Posted by adileo

I’m by myself so some test I am unable to do until I have a friends help.

Here's a handy device for just such occasions: https://smile.amazon.com/Ram-Pro-Eng...0485488&sr=8-2
But, of course, it only works if the engine starts

[4tcoupe]

$3.99 @ Harbor Freight.

[adileo]

Three different coils and condensers. It started with the original skip coil. Ran great in am. Just took it out again.....bucking bad.....ugh...

[4dFord/SC]

Try another distributor, if you have one.

[A bones]

Whenever I have a symptom such as your's one of the first things I like to do is throw a jumper wire from battery to coil, to remove doubts of faulty switch. Best of Luck

[Tinker]

Stick to the skip coil. Bucking under acceleration, if all is well ignition and runs idle. flood it with mmo (or whatever you got, diesel fuel has some lube to it) and drive the shit out of it. repeat. sticky valves. it happens. Valves are hard to see, if idling well might be something to consider. Valves can be finicky under load.


if 6.1v at coil you burning up stuff. 4v


Pull the choke when accelerating for lean condition (or a cold motor). At least it will tell you if fuel delivery is low then, if it accelerates and doesn't buck. It won't run great but it wont buck.


I'm guessing valves...





.

[adileo]

Thanks guys. I tried pulling choke when it was happening and it made no difference.

Yesterday I took both carbs off. They were rebuilt by Charlie a few years ago. They had some black particles in the bowl. I pulled out float needle and the fuel mixture screws. Shot them with carb cleaner and then air. It’s all back together today I’ll tune them and test drive.

If it still occurs, I’m thinking my next step I’d pull distro and change points and rotor.

Prior to all this, I did do mmo in tank and down carbs. I can always do it again.

The wire from battery to coil. Please tell me more. Is it merely adding a jumper from positive (neg battery term). Also if it corrects issue, what does that tell me.

[tubman]

If the jumper corrects the problem, it points to the ignition switch or the resistor unit under the dash. I had the ignition switch go bad on a '36 I had years ago; took it apart, cleaned it up, and was good to go. Also the word is that repop resistor units are by far inferior to original Ford units. Which do you have?

[adileo]

Thanks Tubman. I have an original resistor.

When doing jumper to coil. Do I need to disconnect any of the existing wiring?

[tubman]

Nope. You are only duplicating the existing ignition circuit, just eliminating any possible points of resistance. Remember though, that this jumper is a temporary diagnostic tool.

[adileo]

TY Sir! I’ll keep wittingly it down.

Just sitting here thinking. I only am running an airtex electric fuel pump (removed mechanical) another possibility it that not running 100% and cutting out.

[JM 35 Sedan]

If you do the jumper lead as suggested and the engine starts and runs well....Do NOT leave that jumper wire connected very long! If this seemingly solves the problem, shut the engine off and determine which component, that you bypassed, is at fault.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Although it's true that some of the repop ignition resistor's are inferior to the originals, I've also had original resistors fail with high resistance connection crimps to ends of the nichrome wire heating element that have intermittently acted like an open circuit, and I've also had the wire element with either shorted turns or completely burned open on original ignition resistors.

[adileo]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

If you do the jumper lead as suggested and the engine starts and runs well....Do NOT leave that jumper wire connected very long! If this seemingly solves the problem, shut the engine off and determine which component, that you bypassed, is at fault.

Will do as suggested by you and Tubman. It will only be on to test out.

I’m working my way down the list.

1 carbs cleaned and reset - need to finish that this am
2 jumper to coil
3 points and rotor

It’s not the pump. I recall now when car would not start I verified it was pumping fuel to carbs.

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by adileo

Will do as suggested by you and Tubman. It will only be on to test out.

I’m working my way down the list.

1 carbs cleaned and reset - need to finish that this am
2 jumper to coil
3 points and rotor

It’s not the pump. I recall now when car would not start I verified it was pumping fuel to carbs.

Are you 6 or 12v as per previous posts not normally required the resistor if running 12 v. Only required with 6v when running original type coil.
Phil NZ

[adileo]

Ok guys...

While tuning the carbs the car stalled and would not restart. I did the jumper from battery to coil and it started. I also noticed that when I got in car with jumper attached my electric fuel pump was running with the switch in off position.

So couple questions:

1 should the pump run when jumped and switch off?
2 what’s next step? Replace resistor or ignition - clean or replace?

[tubman]

1. The current supplied by the jumper wire is feeding back to the switch through the regular ignition feed wire and feeding the pump circuit. It;s not unusual and a result of not disconnecting the original wires.

2. Do you have a multi-Meter? If so check the resistance through the switch and also the resistor unit.

[adileo]

I put installed a new (guts) to ignition switch. Car ran for about 5 minutes at idle then - stalled - could not restart. I put jumper back on battery to coil. Still would not start.

One more point: when it wouldn’t start and without jumper I got 4 volts at coil.

Tested the condenser and it’s good. Is there a way to test the coil? Or should I take out distro and replace points

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by adileo

I put installed a new (guts) to ignition switch. Car ran for about 5 minutes at idle then - stalled - could not restart. I put jumper back on battery to coil. Still would not start.

Tested the condenser and it’s good. Is there a way to test the coil? Or should I take out distro and replace points

Do you have a spare coil? Otherwise check primary resistance should be around 0.8 ohms and secondary resistance around 9 to 10 kohms.
Noted you were showing at previous post 6.1v at coil?
Did you check voltage at distributor this will be around 3.5v with the correct resistor in the circuit using an original coil. If its Skips coil chances of faulty are very slim. I sould go for a distributor swap.
Phil NZ

[tubman]

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How did you test the condenser? Condenser testers are not very common and expensive. Plus they can be effected by heat and cycling.

If you have a multi-meter, you can do a preliminary test of the coil by checking the resistance of the primary and secondary circuits. The primary should be low (in the range of 1.5 to 3 ohms), and the secondary should be 8000 ohms and up. I don't know if those are the exact numbers for your situation, but you get the idea. Again. heat and cycling can effect the operation of the coil.

[adileo]

Thanks Phil

No start cranking at coil 4 volts. I have 3 coils 1 Skip others can’t recall how I got them. So I want to test all three

This is stock Helmet distro. Please help me understand - primary resistance and secondary.
Also to check these two I remove coil from car?

[JSeery]

You have to know the parts you are working with, different coils will have different resistance values. A "can" coil is going to be different from an original Ford distributor mounted coil and the ballast resistor requirements are going to be very different. Mixing and matching parts have to play together!

On a 6v system a 1.5 ohm can coil does not use a ballast resistor. Any original style Ford coil like is mounted on a helmet distributor does require a ballast resistor (unless Skip wound it to some other value than the original Ford specs).

[adileo]

Jerry

I have a helmet distro. Stock 6v.

Skip coil sits on top of
Bubba 11a distro
Ballest resistor under dash

I would like to test the coil. On top there is a pin which coil wire attaches with a screw on but. On side is for condenser which bolt on with one of two screws that mount coil to distro.

Under coil is a spring and a rod that sits into rotor center

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by adileo

Jerry

I have a helmet distro. Stock 6v.

Skip coil sits on top of
Bubba 11a distro

Then what are the coils you are switching it out with, the same helmet distributors?

[adileo]

Yes

[JSeery]

When checking the voltage at the coil it is going to depend on if the points are open or closed when you are checking it. With the points open it should check somewhere near battery voltage. With the points closed it should be somewhere around 3.5 volts (when going through the ballast resistor). With the jumper wire you at sending battery voltage to the coil and points. That is OK for a short period of time to test. If I remember you have a relay operating the fuel pump, so would not take much back feed through the ignition switch to trigger the relay.

[adileo]

Jerry your correct about relay.

Can the coil be tested off the car? If yes how and what is primary and secondary?

Thanks for your patience.

[JSeery]

The primary is the circuit from the connecter that is wired to the ignition switch to the connecter that goes to the condenser. The secondary is the circuit that goes from the connecter that is wired to the ignition switch to the large terminal that supplies high voltage to the rotor.

[adileo]

Jerry

When cranking and test lead on the (helmet) coil I’m only seeing 3.5 to 4 volts. I though lt that was the resistor doing it’s job. Am I supposed to see 3 & 6 with the points opening and closing? If yes then the point are the problem

[V8COOPMAN]

With the engine cranking, the points are opening and closing too fast for the meter to register instantaneously. You'll see a sort of average. DD

[JSeery]

Here is a page from Bubbas site that shows him testing a coil:

http://www.bubbasignition.com/ignition-coils-.html

"When cranking and test lead on the (helmet) coil I’m only seeing 3.5 to 4 volts."

That is about right on, you are not going to see it move around much if you have an electronic voltmeter. An analog meter should jump a little. I though you posted earlier that you were seeing 6.1 volts at the coil? If so, that part all sounds correct.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

With the engine cranking, the points are opening and closing too fast for the meter to register instantaneously. You'll see a sort of average. DD

What V8 said!

[adileo]

K thanks DD. I’m not sure how I figure out what is causing this problem.....

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by adileo

K thanks DD. I’m not sure how I figure out what is causing this problem.....

Quick test as mentioned earlier. With some assistance, crank it over with one plug wire removed and hold close to plug to see if getting a spark jump from lead to spark plug. Or get hold og int inline tester for this as suggested previously also. If no spark then 3 options, coil, condenser or distributor.
Again I would suggest the Skip's coil wont be a problem. To measure resistances for these coils it needs to be removed from distributor.
Phil NZ

[adileo]

Thanks Phil

The car will run so I must have spark. Just now... I started it let it idle for 5-10 and then it stalls. It almost sounds like it’s running low on fuel before it dies. Then I can’t restart.

[Tinker]

It's pretty easy to see if the resistor is working with a volt meter. Cold and hot.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Every post I read on this thread, makes me think of something that needs to be checked carefully to be able to rule out whether certain components are either good or possibly defective, or a person could chase their tail on something like this for a long time.
Just reading these last few posts made me think of these....
1.) To check that coil ballist resistor, that's on the firewall behind the dash, I would suggest disconnecting one side to remove it from the circuit, and measure its resistance when it's cold and after its been heated. It's very possible for that wire wound resistor to function normal when cold, and intermittently when warm/hot. You could also check this with a DC voltmeter when it's in its energized (functioning) circuit. Also, if you have a known good replacement resistor, replace the one in your car now with that new one.

2.) Your electric fuel pump could also be operating intermittently, for several different reasons, and that could cause the problem you are having....so that possibility needs to be carefully check out.

3.) I agree with a previous statement that Skip's coils are normally good/infallible, BUT...I know of a situation where one of his coils was literally fried to a crisp due to user error. I have also seen them failed by unintentionally leaving the ignition switch "on" for an extended period of time....otherwise known as forgetfulness :-)
So, make sure that Skip Haney coil is good. Again, they must be checked when cold, AND....when heated.

4.) This is hindsight, but testing the switch should have been done as a separate test. I would have suggested jumpering the terminals on back of switch with a wire and an alligator clip attached to each end. If the switch contacts were operating intermittently, the jumper would temporarily correct that, possibly allowing the engine to keep running.

I'll come back and add to this list after rereading some of the other posts.....

[JSeery]

Not sure you noticed John, but he started a second post on the same topic. And I agree 100% with your suggestions!

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Not sure you noticed John, but he started a second post on the same topic. And I agree 100% with your suggestions!

I saw that, and that's the worse thing to do when posting a thread trying to get help on a problem situation like this