The Ford Barn

RUNNERBUN · 04-15-2013, 02:37 AM

I'll start another thread so as not to hijack 29er's thread. I have had my Model A on the road for quite some time now and it is used on a very regular basis. I have run up in excess of 70000 (Seventy Thousand) miles since restoration. All this mileage has been done without Shocks, and before anyone jumps on me and tells me what a fool I've been I must add that it had always been my intention to put them on. There has certainly been many times when I wished that I had them on and told myself that I'm not taking it out again untill I have fitted the shocks.
My question is. Does driving without Shocks have an adverse effect on tyre wear, and if so what?

QGolden · 04-15-2013, 05:25 AM

I have tried to sort through that question lots of times. Although one could make an argument that excessive bounce could stress tires and contribute to their wear, all i have ever seen is anecdotal evidence of this. Even if you look at some of the Shock Mfgrs Websites, they will list tire wear as a symptom of bad shocks, but do not offer a reason why the two are correlated. With Struts that is a different story. But to me, on an A, Shocks are bounce dampeners and have no measurable effect on tire wear.

spike · 04-15-2013, 05:38 AM

how about spring bushings and extra wear on them? And also the springs?

Hicktick · 04-15-2013, 12:01 PM

Driving without shocks puts a lot of strain on the frame .

The more flex , the more frame cracks and sags .

QGolden · 04-15-2013, 12:22 PM

Spike, Hicktick, yup, that and a lot more, could dangerous on curves, bottoming out springs, breaking springs, difficult to maintain control over northern New England frost heaves, lots of good reasons to have them, but the question was pertaining to tire wear. I have never seen a direct connection to tire wear and lack of/or bad shocks.

Hicktick · 04-15-2013, 12:38 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Shocks are designed to keep the tire on the pavement .

If the tire can bounce it will wear quicker .

If the tire remains in constant contact with the road , and just rolls it wears better .

Think of skimming a rock across water ??

Kevin in NJ · 04-15-2013, 01:15 PM

I know you can get cupping with bad shocks.

Tire wear reasons

But, the large amount of un-sprung weight in the Model A suspension means you will have other effects. There is a certain dampening from the mass that will yield different effects. The chart on the website is for modern cars with their low unsprung weight.

My experience says that you likely have not enough spring effect in your system. The drivability issues stem from too much undamped spring effect. No rebound from poor springs then there is less need for shocks.

I know from experience that a 31 coupe and a 30 town sedan with known good front springs are very uncomfortable to hold on the road above 25 MPH. With shocks the cars are dreams over 60 MPH. Others report the same findings.

I also know all the guys with no shock and no bounce issues have obvious spring issues. They also do not drive their cars over 45 and probably do not have brakes safe for 30 MPH- but that is a whole other thing.

So I am not telling you that you are wrong. I can only relate personal experience. If you were to drive a properly restored car that has good springs and shocks you might get a different opinion of your car and make a few more changes then you expected.

columbiA · 04-15-2013, 11:41 PM

My 30 coupe without front shocks is comfortable to drive at 60 in OD with easy steering & good brakes.

04-15-2013, 02:37 AM	#1
RUNNERBUN Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Queensland Australia Posts: 640	Another Shocky Question I'll start another thread so as not to hijack 29er's thread. I have had my Model A on the road for quite some time now and it is used on a very regular basis. I have run up in excess of 70000 (Seventy Thousand) miles since restoration. All this mileage has been done without Shocks, and before anyone jumps on me and tells me what a fool I've been I must add that it had always been my intention to put them on. There has certainly been many times when I wished that I had them on and told myself that I'm not taking it out again untill I have fitted the shocks. My question is. Does driving without Shocks have an adverse effect on tyre wear, and if so what? __________________ Adjust your points with gentle blows of a 2 pound hammer

04-15-2013, 05:25 AM	#2
QGolden Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 1,231	Re: Another Shocky Question I have tried to sort through that question lots of times. Although one could make an argument that excessive bounce could stress tires and contribute to their wear, all i have ever seen is anecdotal evidence of this. Even if you look at some of the Shock Mfgrs Websites, they will list tire wear as a symptom of bad shocks, but do not offer a reason why the two are correlated. With Struts that is a different story. But to me, on an A, Shocks are bounce dampeners and have no measurable effect on tire wear. __________________ It's not what people think they know that will hurt them, it is what they think they know that aint so! -Mark Twain. It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.- Unknown

04-15-2013, 05:38 AM	#3
spike Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jackson Michigan Posts: 245	Re: Another Shocky Question how about spring bushings and extra wear on them? And also the springs?

04-15-2013, 12:01 PM	#4
Hicktick Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Hickory Tavern , SC Posts: 422	Re: Another Shocky Question Driving without shocks puts a lot of strain on the frame . The more flex , the more frame cracks and sags .

04-15-2013, 12:22 PM	#5
QGolden Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 1,231	Re: Another Shocky Question Spike, Hicktick, yup, that and a lot more, could dangerous on curves, bottoming out springs, breaking springs, difficult to maintain control over northern New England frost heaves, lots of good reasons to have them, but the question was pertaining to tire wear. I have never seen a direct connection to tire wear and lack of/or bad shocks. __________________ It's not what people think they know that will hurt them, it is what they think they know that aint so! -Mark Twain. It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.- Unknown

04-15-2013, 12:38 PM	#6
Hicktick Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Hickory Tavern , SC Posts: 422	Re: Another Shocky Question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Shocks are designed to keep the tire on the pavement . If the tire can bounce it will wear quicker . If the tire remains in constant contact with the road , and just rolls it wears better . Think of skimming a rock across water ??

04-15-2013, 01:15 PM	#7
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Another Shocky Question I know you can get cupping with bad shocks. Tire wear reasons But, the large amount of un-sprung weight in the Model A suspension means you will have other effects. There is a certain dampening from the mass that will yield different effects. The chart on the website is for modern cars with their low unsprung weight. My experience says that you likely have not enough spring effect in your system. The drivability issues stem from too much undamped spring effect. No rebound from poor springs then there is less need for shocks. I know from experience that a 31 coupe and a 30 town sedan with known good front springs are very uncomfortable to hold on the road above 25 MPH. With shocks the cars are dreams over 60 MPH. Others report the same findings. I also know all the guys with no shock and no bounce issues have obvious spring issues. They also do not drive their cars over 45 and probably do not have brakes safe for 30 MPH- but that is a whole other thing. So I am not telling you that you are wrong. I can only relate personal experience. If you were to drive a properly restored car that has good springs and shocks you might get a different opinion of your car and make a few more changes then you expected.

04-15-2013, 11:41 PM	#8
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: Another Shocky Question My 30 coupe without front shocks is comfortable to drive at 60 in OD with easy steering & good brakes.