My lights went out!

[FrankWest]

My car now has increased power with carb repair and new fuel hoses..
So much power that all my lights went out..Headlights, tail and brake...
Strange...They always worked well before...Checked and changed the ONLY fuse I have...Fuse was ok..but changed it anyway...
No effect.

[JSeery]

There should be only a couple of areas that can cause all the lighting to go out. There should be three Yellow/Black wires to one side of the Fuse. Two of these are the power wires, one from the Battery via the amp meter and the other one from the Generator. The third wire goes to the Ignition Switch and then back to the Resistor next to Fuse. From the Resistor there is a Red wire to the Coil. If the car will still start and run, then there is power to all these wires and to the Fuse.
The other side of the Fuse should have a Yellow/Red wire that goes from the Fuse to the Light Control Switch at the base of the Steering Column. The only place all of the Lights come together is at the Light Switch. If the Brakes are not working then it just about has to be a problem with the Yellow/Red wire as the Brake wire (Green) connects to it at the Switch and should be HOT all the time.
The color coding is normally almost impossible to see on the wiring as it fades!

[FrankWest]

Great! Thanks for the fast response....
Seems like one crucial wire may have failed due to the increased power "vibrations"
I never replaced my wiring and assume that I have original...It looks like original insulation.
I just found this schematic in my 1933 v8 owners manual..I assume it is the same for the model B 1933 too.

I forgot to add...Horn works!

Does that light switch and the bottom of the steering column go bad often??

[rotorwrench]

On the early Fords with cloth insulated wire, it's not unusual to have a wire short out due to cracked or worn insulation. It's nice to have the extra power but it may not have much to do with the electrical problem other than the car is being driven.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

On the early Fords with cloth insulated wire, it's not unusual to have a wire short out due to cracked or worn insulation. It's nice to have the extra power but it may not have much to do with the electrical problem other than the car is being driven.

Just foolin...
My wiring is original.. I can tell from the way it looks and several wires have bird caging where the insulation has pulled Away. Should be time to put in some new wiring.
hopefully I can replace key sections at a time rather than an entire wire harness..
So that I will not become overwhelmed with the task. Is MAC's a decent place to look for wire harnesses or is there someplace that sells more quality harnesses?

[rotorwrench]

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I'm not sure about the 33/34 models but a lot of the early open head lamp models has twist & lock connectors on the headlamps like the model A cars that I am more familiar with. If your stuff in original then save every part for reuse or repair. A lot of the new stuff doesn't hold a candle to the original Ford stuff. I'f your stuff in older reproduction then that might be one of your problems.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I'm not sure about the 33/34 models but a lot of the early open head lamp models has twist & lock connectors on the headlamps like the model A cars that I am more familiar with. If your stuff in original then save every part for reuse or repair. A lot of the new stuff doesn't hold a candle to the original Ford stuff. I'f your stuff in older reproduction then that might be one of your problems.

I'll lookout for that..Thanks

[FrankWest]

I found two yellow wires under my dash that are attached to a clip or clamp.
Hard to see.....I am at that stage in life where I need 5 different pairs of eye glasses to see objects at different distances, If I can get close enough to smell the object then I can see it clearly without my glasses, But anyway were clips every used for ground connections?? Say to the frame or is always done with screws...for safety.

[rockfla]

YNZ yesterday's parts for your replacement wiring harness. (909) 798-1498 or the good Ole' google search brings there page right up. Top notch wiring even for modern mods like adding flashers, they even wired in a safety breaker for the whole system so you can't burn your car up and hid it very nicely. They can even wire up for 12v to 6v inverters or vice versa. Or you also have Tyree Harris in Bumpass VA, he advertises in V8 Times. He does a nice "as stock" harness.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by rockfla

YNZ yesterday's parts for your replacement wiring harness. (909) 798-1498 or the good Ole' google search brings there page right up. Top notch wiring even for modern mods like adding flashers, they even wired in a safety breaker for the whole system so you can't burn your car up and hid it very nicely. They can even wire up for 12v to 6v inverters or vice versa. Or you also have Tyree Harris in Bumpass VA, he advertises in V8 Times. He does a nice "as stock" harness.

Thanks...I very appreciate your help...MAC's has been selling a lot of china and india made stuff lately...

[rotorwrench]

Rhode Island Wire is not cheep but they lacquer coat their cloth covered wire. Most of the repro stuff is plain cloth weave with no coating since it covers a more modern insulation.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Rhode Island Wire is not cheep but they lacquer coat their cloth covered wire. Most of the repro stuff is plain cloth weave with no coating since it covers a more modern insulation.

Thanks!!! Rhode Island sounds like what I want...
All the work in replacing the harness...I rather use the best I can get..
And most original..
Thanks

[JSeery]

They sell both wire by the foot or complete harness.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

They sell both wire by the foot or complete harness.

I am going to try to isolate the bad connection by your instructions before I begin rewiring everything. It seems strange that all the lights are off.
Maybe the switch went bad? anyway, i will definitely buy from Rhode Island when the time comes....Too often I but stuff from MAC/s because I don't know any better.. I rather but the best in this car...It is my only antique car.

[DavidG]

Better yet, Rhode Island Wiring knows the difference between the harnesses for fours and V-8s and they are likely the only supplier in the U.S. who also offer RHD harnesses.

[Capt Kirk]

When he says "way more power"...could it be a speed of light issue?

[JSeery]

My guess is the problem is either the fuse/fuse bracket or the wire between the fuse and the light switch. Do you have a volt meter or circuit tester (probe that lights up)? Start by checking both sides of fuse. And have fun getting to it!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Better yet, Rhode Island Wiring knows the difference between the harnesses for fours and V-8s and they are likely the only supplier in the U.S. who also offer RHD harnesses.

wow! Thanks David...You are the Greatest!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

My guess is the problem is either the fuse/fuse bracket or the wire between the fuse and the light switch. Do you have a volt meter or circuit tester (probe that lights up)? Start by checking both sides of fuse. And have fun getting to it!

I plan to do that this morning.
I will check to see which wire is live.
On the schematic there is a lot going on around that light switch.
Trying to think back what I recently changed on the car.
Several weeks ago I switched out my generator...
Could the new generator and power cut off switch be causing the problem?

[CC33]

As previously mentioned, get a volt/ohm meter. Check for voltage on either side of the fuse. If none there, follow back towards the battery and check for breaks or splices in the feed. Wiring on these are extremely basic and easy to follow with a meter and schematic.
As far as harnesses go, only buy the best with the proper connectors.
PS-The horn circuit does not run through the fuse. Fuse is only for lights.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by CC33

As previously mentioned, get a volt/ohm meter. Check for voltage on either side of the fuse. If none there, follow back towards the battery and check for breaks or splices in the feed. Wiring on these are extremely basic and easy to follow with a meter and schematic.
As far as harnesses go, only buy the best with the proper connectors.
PS-The horn circuit does not run through the fuse. Fuse is only for lights.

Thanks... I plan to order the Rhode Island harnesses...I have only one car and want it done right.

[FrankWest]

Status so far....
On both sides of the fuse board I have 6 volts
Continuing

[El Rat]

Tyree Harris, the best!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Capt Kirk

When he says "way more power"...could it be a speed of light issue?

I can't change the laws of Physics, Captain!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfZ12UGiisM

[4dFord/SC]

Have you checked the dilithium crystals?

[FrankWest]

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Originally Posted by 4dFord/SC

Have you checked the dilithium crystals?

I'm doing all i can, Captain!

[Capt Kirk]

Flux core capacitor?

[koates]

Frank, seeing that you are a little electrically challenged and eyesight is marginal close up. Get some good lighting under your dash panel. USE A TEST LIGHT and not a voltmeter or multimeter for testing. Test the test light across the battery terminals to make sure it works. Clip one end of the test light to a good clean ground and the probe on to each side of the fuse holder in turn. Test the very ends of the fuse itself and the terminals on each end as well. The light should light up in each case. If it lights up on one side and not the other then there is a bad connection here. Some fuses look good but have a bad connection inside the end cap which you cant see. Make sure the spring ears which hold each end of the fuse have good tight tension and are CLEAN METAL inside. Also check and see if your dome light is working because it picks up power on the same fuse terminal as all the other lights. If you do get the test light working on all of these fuse connections then the problem is likely down in the steering column light switch. If there is no power anywhere on the fuse holder check for power at the ammeter terminals which I think your 1933 has. The 1934 fords have a loop ammeter with no connections. If there is no power at the ammeter terminals then check the main battery connection on the starter motor switch. Some 4 cylinder fords had an accessory fuse holder fitted on the starter switch so test that if fitted. To remove the headlight switch from the steering box (unclip the wire bail sideways) and it comes apart in two halves. Push the wire loom up from the bottom housing to clear the Bakelite contact plate out of the housing. Check the contacts are not oily or greasy or burnt or no wires are broken off terminals where they are soldered on. Use your test light again on the large connector where the yellow with red tracer wire is connected. This wire comes from the fuse holder and should have power on it. You said you have played around with the generator and cut out so its possible if something shorted to ground here then the ammeter could have been open circuited inside if it is the two terminal type. Let me know what you find. Test each item back in the order it receives power from and find where the power stops, and refer to the hand book wiring diagram as you go. Easy !! Regards, Kevin.

[FrankWest]

Thanks Kevin,
I reinstalled the original generator with original cutout that I was using when I had lights.
No change still, no lights. As I mentioned I have 6 volts on either side of the fuse board.
Funny you mentioned about the fuse...I have 2 20 amp fuses and both look good but I have to check each because as you said maybe the break is close the cap and Is not visible. I switched one out for the other but have to check each one.
Checked the fuses OK...I even bought a new new package and tested good and put in fuse board...NO lights..
I can't stop thinking that I caused the problem when switching out the generator last time. I switched it out because I though the bearings were making a moaning noise...I since discovered that my speedometer was making the racket. Any way I will continue to follow your instructions.. I can't get the globe off the dome light to check the bulb. I am trying to remove it very carefully so as not to break it.

[FrankWest]

Looking again at the schematic it definitely seems to be YR wire as . That is the wire that bring power to the switch, right? But In need to unsnap the wire clamp holding the light switch to gain access to the wires on the switch to see what is going on there.
As always, I have no experience with the light switch.Any tips will be greatly appreciated.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Looking again at the schematic it definitely seems to be YG wire as . That is the wire that bring power to the switch, right? But In need to unsnap the wire clamp holding the light switch to gain access to the wires on the switch to see what is going on there.
As always, I have no experience with the light switch.Any tips will be greatly appreciated.

That would be YR Frank. Right spot, just the wrong color code. An easy way to check it is to use a something like a straight pin to insert into the wire and then test it. Have to be sure the pin contacts the wire strands inside. I would not do this on new wiring, but you are going to replace this wire sooner or later and it is the easiest way to test it. It will also allow you to test the wire in several places and see where the breakage is.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

That would be YR Frank. Right spot, just the wrong color code.

Right, I typed too fast. Thanks, you were the one the isolated that location in the beginning...
Thanks for you help.

[FrankWest]

I replaced a broken dash bulb....Not working either.

[JSeery]

Look at your diagram again, there is no way the instrument panel light could work if the other lights are not working, they all feed off of the same wire (the YR one). Did you check along the YR wire to see if it has power?

Power to the instrument panel light switch (and then the bulb itself) is the Black/Blue wire from the light control switch and it has power when the tail lights have power.

The only light on a separate circuit is the dome light.

Checking all this other stuff is not going to help until you eliminate the YR wire as the problem (that wire is most likely the problem). If you just want to get things working while you are waiting on your wiring harness you can remove the YR wire and run a new wire from the fuse to the light control switch and see if that gets everything working.

[FrankWest]

Glad I found this drawing of the wiring on the 1933 model B in My Green Book
The picture helps me find the physical locations of what the schematic is saying.

as Queequeg said in Moby Dick "You know words, I know picture"

I feel as primitive as Queequeq when working on this car.

[JSeery]

Good diagram! Is that a photo of you, LOL?

[Terry,OH]

Seems some do not know you have a 4 Cyl 33. The wiring diagram is slightly different. I agree the problem seems to be in your light switch. The metal cap for the switch has to be slightly rotated and then pull off after removing the bail wire. See if you rotate the light switch on the steering wheel several times do the lights come back on??
Does your dome light work? It is not on the light switch. I'll give you 15 Min. to change the bulb.

[Terry,OH]

Done yet?
Do your stop lights work??

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Done yet?
Do your stop lights work??

Terry, none of his lighting is working, that's why it looks like a power into the light control switch issue. He has power to the fuse (both sides) but no lights, including tail lights and brake light. Because the brake light should be HOT all the time, it looks like there is no power into the light control switch.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Good diagram! Is that a photo of you, LOL?

Here is my photo

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Done yet?
Do your stop lights work??

stop lights are out too.

[dwaynec]

Before you dig into that light switch make sure the battery is disconnected otherwise sparks might happen.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by dwaynec

Before you dig into that light switch make sure the battery is disconnected otherwise sparks might happen.

LOL, if it had power to it!!!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Seems some do not know you have a 4 Cyl 33. The wiring diagram is slightly different. I agree the problem seems to be in your light switch. The metal cap for the switch has to be slightly rotated and then pull off after removing the bail wire. See if you rotate the light switch on the steering wheel several times do the lights come back on??
Does your dome light work? It is not on the light switch. I'll give you 15 Min. to change the bulb.

Lowered the BAIL wire "wire holding the switch to the steering column"
Tried to pull the switch "switch shell down, won't go down more that 1 inch. No familiar with what I am looking at?

[CC33]

After you lower the bail, the lower portion of the switch is removed by gently pulling it down. You can then check for continuity on all of the leads with a volt/ohm meter. That is where your problem will be.

[FrankWest]

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Originally Posted by CC33

After you lower the bail, the lower portion of the switch is removed by gently pulling it down. You can then check for continuity on all of the leads with a volt/ohm meter. That is where your problem will be.

Will do....What have I got to lose..It don't Woik anyway!