Oil Leak Troubleshooting

[mgambuzza]

Vacation week coming and I bought some parts to try addressing my oil leak on my 1930. I originally was going to replace the pan gasket, but the last time I ran it for about 10 minutes and let is sit overnight, I looked at both sides of the engine pan - drivers dry, passengers side wet. I then looked upward and saw where the oil return and valve cover a lot of seepage. I bought parts such as valve cover gasket, oil return gasket, bolts with copper washers, and a new oil return pipe (solder on original - possible former crack or leak). Never done this before on this type of car so although tight, can I remove the oil return and valve cover without removing the carburetor and intake/exhaust manifolds?


Hopefully this cares for the majority of the leaks. If not I'll have to wait for the next vacation for the oil pan. Pictures below.

[Mulletwagon]

Pretty sure the manifolds need to come off. No big deal - also a good time to check the valve lash.

[700rpm]

Hard to tell where your leaks are coming from in the photos. Did you use a sealant on the gaskets? Did you check your pan for straight and smooth face to the block? Was the block clean and smooth where it meets the pan?
You don’t have to remove the manifolds unless you want easy access to the valve chamber, which is separate from leaking issues. Removing the carb will give you a little more wiggle room.

Also hard to tell if you have the brass washers under the bolts that hold the return pipe on. Those are important in preventing leaks from the pipe.

[CWPASADENA]

From the pictures, it appears that most if not all the leak is from the return pipe. I would start with removing just the return pipe and re-seal it and see what happens. There is one bolt in the lower corner of the valve chamber cover that is a little wet. You can remove just that one bolt, clean everything and put a little sealer on the bolt and that may cure that leak, however, I think most of the leak is the return pipe.

My opinion,

Chris W.

[PC/SR]

You can do it without removing the manifolds but it is crowded. Removing the carb should give you enough room to work.

[fundytides]

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I just removed the oil return pipe and valve cover on my 31 to install new gaskets. No problem with removal or installation with manifolds and carb in place.

[old31]

I agree 100% with #6 and #4.

[Bob Bidonde]

Take heed of this caution:

[katy]

Oops

[jw hash]

I`m with Chris on the return pipe, But you almost always need to find the oil leak before you start taking parts off. if it was me, I would clean the area up. run the engine for awhile than run your finger under the return pipe and side cover. you will pick up fresh oil on your finger. than you will know where it is leaking.

[JD 1931]

always keep oil level at middle of stick between full and add...

[mgambuzza]

As expected a full spectrum of great advice. When I'm on vacation next week I'll work on identifying, taking it step at a time, and fingers cross either definitively identify or resolve the issue. Thank you all - it is great to have such an engaged group of people with a vast level of experience!

[mgambuzza]

ok - so I did a couple items. I changed the oil which I didn't know when the last time it was done (I bought it in late October). I also went through and tightened up the oil return, valve cover, pan bolts, oil drain plug - replaced seal, and tightened as well as replaced the middle flywheel dust cover bolt (was missing). Through this I did find at least 5 loose bolts. Started, warmed up, and now only leak I am seeing is at the cotter pin on the bottom of the flywheel as shown in the picture below. It was dripping pretty good while running. Oil level when cold is now at the mark on the dipstick. Could I be looking at an overfilled oil pan, or something else?

[shew01]

Several folks recommend an oil level halfway between full and low on the dipstick. They say it helps minimize leaks. Model A’s are going to leak a bit anyway. That hole with the cotter pin seems to be a popular site for a leak.


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[Big hammer]

It could be leaking a bit from the rear main or camshaft, drive it or remove some oil down to just above the L lower mark on the dip stick and see if this helps or slows the leak. When the rear main bearing clearances become wider, then they start to leak which means removing the oil pan and rear main to adjust the bearing. Let's hope that a lower oil level will slow or stop your drip!

[Y-Blockhead]

My Town Sedan had a small leak from that area. I installed a Rear Main Janitor to prevent marking my driveway https://www.brattons.com/rear-main-janitor.html

I put a feminine napkin in it to absorb any drips and change it once a month.

[arnhemmer]

Y-Blockhead that's hilarious, does it get irritable every28 days?

[Harpkatt]

Does everyone have a cotter pin in that hole? I didn't realize that had an actual purpose. a quick search reveals

"Q. Why does the new Ford have a cotter key hanging out the bottom of the bell??

A. Its natural shaking as the car is driven ensures that the hole will not become blocked by dirt.

Q. Why is the hole there?

A. To allow oil leaking from the engine to drain out before it can get to the clutch frictions.

Q. Why does the oil leak so??

A. The leak is provided in order to prevent the formation of rust on the cotter pin.

So there. Skilled engineers design everything as a system."

[katy]

Originally Posted by Harpkatt

Does everyone have a cotter pin in that hole? I didn't realize that had an actual purpose. a quick search reveals

"Q. Why does the new Ford have a cotter key hanging out the bottom of the bell??

A. Its natural shaking as the car is driven ensures that the hole will not become blocked by dirt.

Q. Why is the hole there?

A. To allow oil leaking from the engine to drain out before it can get to the clutch frictions.

Q. Why does the oil leak so??

A. The leak is provided in order to prevent the formation of rust on the cotter pin.

So there. Skilled engineers design everything as a system."

It sounds like a viscous circle.

[jb-ob]

MGA,

Your Model A is not a Lexus.

By now you have seen how thick those gaskets are and they do require a re-tightening after the first several heat cycles (driving to operating temps) to 'slow down' leakage.
Definitely add some sealant to those oil return pipe gaskets as they are not as thick as originals.

Lastly, playing with oil pan & valve cover bolts, use only a 1/4" ratchet to tighten unless you want to see how easily those bolts break in awkward places.

Enjoy your week off.

[jerbo]

i see in this discussion of the oil return pipe chat about a 'copper' washer. When i bought out an old Model A repair garage years ago i found lots of white fiber type washers that went between the return pipe & the block. No metal [copper or brass] ones at all. Looking at Snyder's latest catalog, page A-131 i see them selling: "Pair of hard fiber gaskets...as originally used...usa" part # A-6648 $2.50. I have never had nor seen any Model A with metal 'washers' or gaskets in this place, maybe not using the original fiber means it will leak ?? I've never used metal ones, never used any kind of 'sealer' just the plain old fiber washer..... Jerbo

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by jerbo

i see in this discussion of the oil return pipe chat about a 'copper' washer. When i bought out an old Model A repair garage years ago i found lots of white fiber type washers that went between the return pipe & the block. No metal [copper or brass] ones at all. Looking at Snyder's latest catalog, page A-131 i see them selling: "Pair of hard fiber gaskets...as originally used...usa" part # A-6648 $2.50. I have never had nor seen any Model A with metal 'washers' or gaskets in this place, maybe not using the original fiber means it will leak ?? I've never used metal ones, never used any kind of 'sealer' just the plain old fiber washer..... Jerbo

So you saying you don't use the copper washer to seal around the bolt? I would think it would leak. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword

[katy]

Originally Posted by Ruth

So you saying you don't use the copper washer to seal around the bolt? I would think it would leak. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword

In post #21 he said " just the plain old fiber washer..... Jerbo"

[Mikeinnj]

The large FIBER washers go inside each end of the oil return pipe. The small copper washers go betweem the mounting bolts anon the OUTSIDE of the return pipe.Sealant only needed on the large fiber washers.

[TerryH]

That comment about the “rear main janitor” reminded me of my first Model A, in 1964. It had a pretty serious leak there, and my dad told to wire up an empty ham tin.....which I did, and it worked great....no more marking his/our driveway.

[alexiskai]

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I've been thinking about putting something on those oil return bolts where the copper washer goes. A tiny dab of Permatex Ultra Black maybe.