Chatter Rods/bars

[40fordpu]

I have a 8ba in a 40. Found that my chatter rods for my 40 dont seem to be the right length for the 8ba. Also, where do they attach in the back of your 8ba? Anyone come across this? Anyone try and put chatter rods on their 8ba in a 40? Thanks

[rotorwrench]

They discontinued the chatter rods on the 8BA type blocks but I have seen bolt on rod supports when using the later block in the earlier vehicles.

Kerby

[Ken/Alabama]

Ive always heard them called anti chatter rods but I think they were really to hold the engine from thrusting forward by the torque tube as the rear axle moved up and down . When they went away from the closed driveline so did the chatter rods. Never seen an 8ba with them from the factory.

[Mart]

I saw a pic of some brackets on this site. May be an older post - I've been browsing the older pages.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by 40fordpu

I have a 8ba in a 40. Found that my chatter rods for my 40 dont seem to be the right length for the 8ba. Also, where do they attach in the back of your 8ba? Anyone come across this? Anyone try and put chatter rods on their 8ba in a 40? Thanks

When I installed the 8BA in my 40 I modified them by making them longer and welded "ears" on the pressed steel bell housing for them to bolt into. Just be sure they are in the right position so as not to interfere with clutch or brake pedal arm.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

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There is a bolt on each side of the bellhousing that lines up with the rods. Remove the bolts and run a 7/16 drill throught to clean out the threads. You'll have to add a couple of inches in the rods and they will go through the holes. A friend did this putting an 8BA in a 36. Walt

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

There is a bolt on each side of the bellhousing that lines up with the rods. Remove the bolts and run a 7/16 drill throught to clean out the threads. You'll have to add a couple of inches in the rods and they will go through the holes. A friend did this putting an 8BA in a 36. Walt

That's a great idea. Wish I had observed that. Thanks, Walt.

[jerry grayson]

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

Ive always heard them called anti chatter rods but I think they were really to hold the engine from thrusting forward by the torque tube as the rear axle moved up and down . When they went away from the closed driveline so did the chatter rods. Never seen an 8ba with them from the factory.

We called them "stay rods", but the parts book calls them "engine radius rods".

[Flathead Fever]

The 8BA blocks did not use chatter rods. In 1949 Ford switched to an open driveshaft with parallel leaf springs. On these vehicles the springs are actually pushing the frame down the road. On the 1948 and earlier cars the torque tube and the transverse spring were pushing the car down the road. The forward force from the torque tube was pushing the engine forward. The problem was the engine is mounted to the frame with rubber mounts. This allows the engine to move which gives you that shaking feeling that most people call “clutch chatter.” It's not the clutch causing the shaking but the whole drive train is moving forward and backwards. Ford's solution was to install engine stabilizer rods. With this system the torque tube pushes on the back of the engine and trans. The stabilizer rods connect to the engine and are transferring the forward motion of the engine to the frame, the engine is actually towing the frame down the road. You definitely need to have some kind of chatter rods on an 8BA engine with a torque tube rearend.

There is a guy here on the Ford barn advertising adaptor brackets for 8BA motors, here is a link to his thread.

Jerry


http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...hlight=chatter

[36tbird]

I think that there is a minor benefit to keeping the old "anti-chatter bars. I am running 1 '36 p/u that has an 8ba with a 4 speed Muncie behind it with chatter bars. When you do such a thing, one notices the long, I mean long, distance between engine and trans mounts. I think that putting the bars/rods in helps to mitigate that long distance. Also, if you notice stock cars with the bars, there are always cracks in the frame around their mounts. I routinely double those areas up with 3/16" flat stock to spread that load around. FWIW

[40fordpu]

How would you lengthen a normal 40 anti chatter bar?

[40 Deluxe]

Do what my then-95 yr. old dad did last year to repair one with smashed threads: cut off the bad end and weld on a bolt of the right length. Just fire up the ol' buzz box and zip-zip, you're done.

[Mart]

This is why you need anti-chatter bars on a torque tube equipped car. Especially a pre-40.
The axle is located in the fore and aft direction by the engine and transmission. Pre 40 the clutch is released and engasged by a push rod pushing on a lever attached to the transmission. The pedal is attached to the frame, and pushes the lever.
So lets say you have no bars and want to pull away.
You push the pedal, release the clutch and engage the gear. You start to raise the pedal, feeling for the bite point. As you reach the bite point, just at that point where you are still holding the clutch 90% released and just start taking up the drive, the axle pushes the engine and box forward. bear in mind you are already pushing it forward with the clutch pedal via the lever.
The trans moves forward, but the end of the lever stays still, as you are holding that with the clutch. (This is the same action as releasing the clutch). The effect is that you suddenly engage it much firmer than you intended.
if severe this can result in a much firmer engagement that you were not expecting, and havn't got enough revs on to cope with, so the engine dies, causing a momentary overrun condition which pulls the engine and box back, momentarily releasing the clutch.at which point the engine recovers, lurches forward again and restarts the original cycle.

In reverse you can get the same happening or even worse.

The above is sort of overstating it, but I have experienced chronic clutch judder only overcame by dipping the clutch, giving it more revs and starting again.
The anti-chatter bars hold the engine and gearbox solidly to the frame and help to make the pullaway as smooth as possible.

Now with a 39-up car the action of the pedal is translated into a rotary motion instead of a straight push action. This makes the 39-up cars much less reliant on the anti-chatter bars from a clutch action, but you must remember that the axle is still pushing and pulling against the engine and box, so the bars, if fitted by the factory are still a good idea.

All this goes out of the window if your clutch plate is contaminated with oil. It will tend to grab and judder with or without bars, but will be worse without.

If you have an open driveline and a 40 up rotational clutch release, then In my opinion you do not need anti-chatter bars. If you have open drive and pre 40 push release clutch, then you may get away without, but they are still probably a good idea to have as they resist the forward thrust of the clutch release.

Mart.

[Dick-Cape Cod]

40fordpu, Call Mark Seitz @ 330-980-0636. He makes an adapter to bolt on to your late model flathead and your anti shatter rods fit perfectly. I know, because I use 2 sets on my cars. They are about $45. and that includes postage. His address is 5345 Parkman Road NW,Warren,OH 44481 Good luck..Dick Cape Cod ... PS Oh Yea, His Machining is perfect, You won't be dissapointed

[av8paul]

[QUOTE=Dick-Cape Cod;109602]40fordpu, Call Mark Seitz @ 330-980-0636. He makes an adapter to bolt on to your late model flathead and your anti shatter rods fit perfectly. I know, because I use 2 sets on my cars. They are about $45. and that includes postage. His address is 5345 Parkman Road NW,Warren,OH 44481 Good luck..Dick Cape Cod ... PS Oh Yea, His Machining is perfect, You won't be dissapointed[/QUOTE


check back a month or so in the V8 parts for sale section, here on the barn. I posted pictures and contact info for these brackets.

[40Coupe]

*Update*

I spoke with Mark last night- his phone number has changed but address is the same. Price for brackets is currently $50.00 shipped. I let him know I would post his new number.

Mark Seitz
5345 Parkman Rd N.W.
Warren, Ohio 44481

Phone 234-600-8804

(I'm unable to post this info in Classifieds)

[john worden]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

There is a bolt on each side of the bellhousing that lines up with the rods. Remove the bolts and run a 7/16 drill throught to clean out the threads. You'll have to add a couple of inches in the rods and they will go through the holes. A friend did this putting an 8BA in a 36. Walt

Good advice.

[El Rat]

With everything where it should be adjust the bars so that nothing moves. I.e. you are not pulling back on the motor or pushing it forward.
If your 40 has ever had chatter bars the frame attachment point is cracked. Reinforce it.

[big deuce]

I realize this is an old thread, but are these brackets still being made by Mark Seitz??

[Pete]

Originally Posted by big deuce

I realize this is an old thread, but are these brackets still being made by Mark Seitz??

Yea. an old thread with a lot of WRONG info.