Trans Front Seal not correct ??

[Robert Dip]

Everything went well in re-building the transmission until I bolted on the last piece…the front bearing retainer with a newly installed seal. The front shaft would no longer turn. The newly supplied seal from Mac’s is a Ford approved part, yet it is not the same as the other original Ford seals still on my other transmissions. The photo with the two front bearing retainers compare the original seal as to the new one. It has a larger metal flange that makes the hole diameter smaller and rubs ( brakes ) on the gear shaft. The part is just past the snap ring. I have found, looking at the other transmissions, that the input gear has different machined designs, but all but one do not clear the new seal. I would have to put this new seal on a lathe and remove some of the material to clear the input shaft.
Are there any other supplier that has a better ( correct ) seal that matches the original Ford seal? Comments would be appreciated….Thks….Robert

[David J]

Might work better if it wasn't installed backwards .

[DICK SPADARO]

Before going nuts on poor quality parts, there at two styles transmission input shaft retainer sleeves, B- which does not use a seal and 78- which uses the seal. You can not install a 78- seal in a B- collar. Its not clear if you are using the collar pictured or just comparing parts. The two collars in picture seem to be 78- units but with the seal placed over the hole its hard to tell, just how much in .001 are the seals to big?

[David J]

GUYS , read the fine print - He has it in backwards !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charlie ny]

Robert,
I use those seals all the time....I think the seal is installed backwards
or possibly there is some restriction in the collar bore keeping the Mac's seal from
setting all the way. I have a homemade low tech driver made out of oak that pilots
the ID of the seal and shoulders on the face to install the seal in the collar. This type
of installation tool insures the seal is not cocked during the install.
Charlie ny

[Rowdy]

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Box says Ford Licenced, which means they have paid a royalty to put the script on the part. It does not mean Ford Quality approved which would have a Q1 on the box. Trust me on this as I worked at a plant that had a Q1 rating for 17 years. I agree with David J. The seal is in backwards. Rod

[svm99]

In addition to being installed backwards it does not look like the seal is installed all the way into the retainer. Are you sure you have all of the old seal tin housing removed? The front retainer is the correct one as the oil return relief is offset...........unless this is the later Mercury retainer which does not use a seal either.............hmmm?
Paul J.

[Robert Dip]

Sorry guys, but I purchased a few of these seals, and the one installed or the one not installed from the other side when I slip it on the gear has the same issues. And yes, the seating area has been media blasted clean and it is sitting all the way in. When measuring the actual metal ring on the seal, the side that has the rubber contacted on the metal is about .020 bigger in diameter, but still does not fit properly. To me, this other retainer has this configuration mounting, which to me is the incorrect side and does not work.

Question....which is the 'real correct side.... where the seal is bonded to the metal ring, or the open end one. Anyway, both do not work...for some reason?? Robert

[David J]

The installed one in your last pic is indeed backwards . The "open" side faces the fluid . You will see the seal lip is tapered for this purpose . I attempted to remove the offending rear shield in the small one in my pics so I could use it but it is more BS than it's worth . Most seals nowdays do not have the rear shielding and you -like me have a rear shield that is made incorrectly . Or your entire seal is made incorrectly . I just buy seals by dimension and don't deal with this BS . As you can see I did indeed buy some of these B4 I figured out the way to get it handled . Wanna buy these ?

Originally Posted by Robert Dip

Sorry guys, but I purchased a few of these seals, and the one installed or the one not installed from the other side when I slip it on the gear has the same issues. And yes, the seating area has been media blasted clean and it is sitting all the way in. When measuring the actual metal ring on the seal, the side that has the rubber contacted on the metal is about .020 bigger in diameter, but still does not fit properly. To me, this other retainer has this configuration mounting, which to me is the incorrect side and does not work.

Question....which is the 'real correct side.... where the seal is bonded to the metal ring, or the open end one. Anyway, both do not work...for some reason?? Robert

[Robert Dip]

Thank you David J.....love the way you tried to 'peel' back the incorrect metal portion of the seal.....I was going to use a lathe....but as you said....enough BS with these parts......and where do I get the good ones??

[DICK SPADARO]

The winners answers are "is seal installed wrong".

Fits fine when installed smooth side flange facing inward. right pc

Wouldn't fit when seal installed with smooth side flange facing outward. left pc

[svm99]

I use a CR seal # 13569 available at a bearing supply company, usually USA or Mexico made. It fits well, not double sided so no mixup on install..................except when you're young and don't know.............I learned from that experience!!
Paul J.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by DICK SPADARO

The winners answers are "is seal installed wrong".

Fits fine when installed smooth side flange facing inward. right pc

Wouldn't fit when seal installed with smooth side flange facing outward. left pc

Dick, Right pic is incorrect, left pic is correct. The lip or open side has to face the fluid to seal it.
Bill

[Robert Dip]

Jeff/Illinois......and that is why I took that picture. Taiwan is a whole lot better than China, but, it's time we all pool together & buy 'Made in America'...I now throw in Canada & Mexico as one....( I'm a Canadian guy & always with the 'American Dream' ) As if we cannot make seals and so many other parts....living by the 'cheap $' rule is killing us, in so many different ways....don't get me going!

On the seal, for now, yes, the open side is the oil side and I dented in the metal lip to clear the input gear.....hammer fixes mostly all. Robert

[richard crow]

simple rule with seals cuting edge face the lubercant

[PeteVS]

It's my understanding that all seals in the drive train (rear end and transmission) should allow fluid to vent to the front of the vehicle. The axle seals should allow rear hub bearing grease to vent in towards the differential. The driveshaft seal at the front of the torque tube should allow differential fluid to vent towards the transmission. A seal at the front of the transmission should allow fluid to vent into the bell housing. A lip seal is intended to block flow when pressure is applied to the "outside" of the lip, but to allow restricted flow when the pressure is applied to the "inside" of the lip. This is all to prevent any kind of pressure buildup from venting into the rear brakes. As I said, this is my understanding.

[35ragtop]

I suffered a transmission oil leak for 6 months after installing a Mac s seal correctly. My big mistake was not to measure it. Anyway I have just pulled it all apart to find that the seal had self destructed. My cure has been to follow others on the Barn and install a new mainshaft input bearing which is completely sealed doing away with this seperate seal altogether.
TIME WILL TELL. So far so good.

Daveh

[DavidG]

Pete,

With respect, I disagree that the seals at the front of the torque tube and transmission should permit the gear oil to pass forward. To do so would be contrary to the instructions in Ford's service bulletins.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

It's my understanding that all seals in the drive train (rear end and transmission) should allow fluid to vent to the front of the vehicle. The axle seals should allow rear hub bearing grease to vent in towards the differential. The driveshaft seal at the front of the torque tube should allow differential fluid to vent towards the transmission. A seal at the front of the transmission should allow fluid to vent into the bell housing. A lip seal is intended to block flow when pressure is applied to the "outside" of the lip, but to allow restricted flow when the pressure is applied to the "inside" of the lip. This is all to prevent any kind of pressure buildup from venting into the rear brakes. As I said, this is my understanding.

Pete
That would allow the trans fluid to vent right on to the clutch.
My understanding is that seals are supposed to seal, not vent.
If a seal is venting it is defective.
Bill

[svm99]

As far as transmission venting goes the top shift trans can vent up and out through the shift handle ball & socket area while the column shift cases actually have a vent breather on the case. I agree, a shaft seal should seal against its rotating shaft, a slinger will vent.
Paul J.