My 34 Won't Start

[drolston]

Originally Posted by Tinker

If you are going with an electric ignition. Might want to look at your plug wires too. You might want to run spiral vs copper core. At least the opposite is true. Don't run spiral on stock point ignition.

When I messed up my Pertronix this past winter I went back to stock points distributor and put in solid copper plug wires. Worked fine, except ignition noise completely jammed my satellite radio. I replaced only the 1 foot coil wire with spiral wound and that was enough noise suppression to restore the radio function.

What sort of problems might that bit of spiral wound coil wire cause on my otherwise stock ignition? I have wound it out to 4500 rpm without missing a beat. - So far.

[tubman]

The plug wire discussion is very interesting guys, but you should remember that we are troubleshooting a "no start" problem here and I am sure the plug wires are not the problem and any mention of them just confuses the issue.

[JimG]

Thank you everyone that has responded to this thread. I have been very busy, but had time this weekend to start trying some of your suggestions.

When I was putting the cap back on the distributor after taking pictures of the ignition module that I posted, the wire for cylinder 3 came off and basically the copper end fell off. It was all green and corroded. See the enclosed photo. So, I will need to put a new end on this wire. By the way, there were comments and questions about the type of wire to use. My wires are MSD Street Fire Wire, which I looked up and are supposed to be low resistance fiber conductor with insulation for low noise for your radio. They are not copper wires. I checked the rest of the wire ends on both ends and they are all like brand new. Strange that one wire would go bead. Maybe the boot was not on properly or it was not seated? Anyway, I don't think this is my problem.


I went to Harbor Freight to get a test light. While in the automotive isle, I noticed this spark checker, so I thought I would give it a try. It's only $4.00. When I tried it out, the light did light faintly when I pushed the starter button with it plugged into one of my spark plug wires. OK maybe I do have spark. I tried it on all 7 cylinders that were connected to the distributor - they were all the same. Then I wondered if I would get the same results with my old coil, so I installed it and retested. Same result - faint glow on all 7 cylinders. Then I got a little crazy and tried it on the wire for cylinder 3 that was disconnected from the distributor. To my surprise, I got the same faint glow! So maybe I don't have spark. I then took the tester and tried it on another car that is running to see how bright the light is on a good running car. The light was very bright. So my conclusion is that I don't have spark.


Then I tried the test light. I followed the enclosed wiring diagram for my system that I posted previously. With the ignition on, I got a bright light on the end of the ballast resistor that power goes to from the ignition switch. This is also supposed to be the connection to the ignition module per the enclose diagram. However, on the other end of the ballast resistor and on the positive terminal of the coil, I got a very dull light - brighter than the spark tester was but still very dull as opposed to the other end of the ballast resistor. At this time, I had my old coil in. So I changed to the new coil to see what would happen. I got the same result - very dull light on the Ballast resistor going to the coil and on the positive end of the coil.


So is this saying that the ballast resistor is bad?

[Lanny]

Jim, run a jumper wire from one side of the ballast resistor to the other,
then check your spark plug wires for strong signal at your tester.




.

[JimG]

Lanny,


I tried jumpering the resistor and checking the spark with my spark checker. It seemed noticeably brighter. So I tried starting the car with the jumper wire in place and it started right up and ran really well! I didn't even notice it was running in 7 cylinders. This was with the new coil in place. So I swapped it out for the oil coil with the jumper wire and also started right up and ran great. So it sounds like I need a new resistor. Looking at my post #11 above:


The original 29216 coil is supposed to have .7 Ohms primary resistance and 8.9K Ohms secondary resistance. The 29216 coil is supposed to be installed with a Mallory 700 resistor which is .75 to 1.5 ohms, which appears to be what I have. The new 29219 coil I bought is supposed to have 1.4 Ohms primary resistance and 10K Ohms secondary resistance. This is all stuff from the Summit Racing website. . The instructions with the 29219 coil says when using with point-type distributors, an additional ballast of .5 to 1.0 Ohms is required, for a total of 2-4-Ohms. They recommend MSD Part no. 8214 which is .8 Ohms.


However, I now know that I have a Mallory Breakerless Ignition. So do I need a resistor with the new coil?


The instructions say:


When using with a Mallory Unilite or Magnetic Breakerless Distributor in a performance application a ballast resistor is not needed. However, for applications that are primarily street driven, reliability improves if the MSD PN 8214 is added to the coil + circuit.


So It sounds like I should get a new Mallory 700 resistor if I want to use the old 26219 coil or an MSD 8214 resistor if I want to use the new 29219 coil. I will have to do some searching in line tonight to see if the 700 is even available today.


I also need to get a new distributor end for the MSD Street Fire Wire for #3 cylinder.


However, the car is running! Thanks again for all the help that you all provided.

[JSeery]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Sounds like progress!

[JimG]

I purchased the MSD 8214 resistor that Mallory recommended for the new 29219 coil for street driven applications. Once installed, I was able to start the car with some effort , using starting fluid and working to keep it running. This was dramatically different than the way it ran when I had the resistor jumpered out. I used an alligator clip to test it out on the fly with the car running. When the MSD8214 resistor was in the circuit with the 29219 coil, the car didn't run well and was difficult to keep running at at idle. When I jumpered out the resistor the car ran great. It starts right up without using starting fluid with the resistor jumpered out. It seems that the coil just doesn't produce a strong enough spark with the recommended MSD 8214 resistor. So I have installed a permanent jumper wire around the resistor. Car seems to be running great. The Mallory instructions say:


When using with a Mallory Unilite or Magnetic Breakerless Distributor in a performance application a ballast resistor is not needed. However, for applications that are primarily street driven, reliability improves if the MSD PN 8214 is added to the coil + circuit.


Am I at risk of ruining my Magnetic Breakerless Ingnition module by not using a resistor? Seems like I need the full coil output to make the engine start and run reliably.

[Lanny]

JimG quote: Am I at risk of ruining my Magnetic Breakerless Ingnition module by not using a resistor? Seems like I need the full coil output to make the engine start and run reliably.


Jim, your OLD ballast sounds like it's seen better days. For now, have you
used the jumper wire across your OLD ballast and then put your New Resistor
in the wire circuit and see how it runs ?




.

[AnthonyG]

I had a similar issue after installing a newer Mallory e-Dist. It was one that needed no externals & connected as most newer distributors directly to coil I got @ the same time. Also supplied was a resistor to be used with. I noticed same problem Jim’s having keeping it running & starting. Turned out I didn’t wire around the stock under dash resistor before connecting the one supplied w kit so the power was running thru both resistors. After I removed stock under dash resistor from the circuit all was corrected & ran great.

[JimG]

Lanny, What I reported in my past # 47 was using the new MSD 8214 resistor that Mallory recommended for the new 29219 coil for street driven applications.


Anthony, My who wiring setup is not original, so I don't think I have an under dash resistor.


I called Holley yesterday (they own MSD and Mallory) and spoke to a service tech. He said they recommend the resistor to keep the amperage on the ignition module down to 6 amps. (The 29219 coil has 1.4 Ohms and the resistor they recommend has .8 Ohms) He sent me this curve showing the current vs Ohms for a 12 V system. He also said he know of people that have used with coil without a resistor for years and had it work OK. From the curve, it looks like the amps without the resistor would be 9.


I may experiment with trying to use the 8214 resistor and see if I can get it to run OK with it in place. Maybe start with the resistor bypassed using my alligator clips and ten run with the resistor in place?

[Lanny]

Jim, you only want to use ONE resistor.
Remove your old junk ballast resistor completely, and put a good solid wire in it's place.
Then try your new 8214 resistor in the circuit and see if it runs good...




.

[JimG]

I have been running my new 29219 coil with the MSD 8214 resistor for a couple of outings now. Car seems to start OK and run well with these new parts. It seems that my hard starting over the years may have been due to my weak spark from the old coil and resistor. I always suspected my Carburetor needed work. Carb seems to be working fine now.


Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread. I'm back on the road again.