The Ford Barn

RobR'35 · 12-06-2016, 09:22 AM

How many generations are there for 24 stud block?

37 Coupe · 12-06-2016, 09:52 AM

I would say four and this is based on a Jay Temple article in the Jan/Feb 1992 V8 Times. The late '38-40 with the 4 freeze plugs/sand cast plug holes in oil pan rail. 3 1/16 inch bore for Ford 3 3/16 for MercuryNext the 41/42 no freeze plugs and has raised deck where intake bolts.The 46-1948 59 block and then the 49-53 blocks. So that is where I come up with the 4 basics.

Bruce Lancaster · 12-06-2016, 10:43 AM

There is one more, an oddity that has gotten scarce. The first 24 stud used in 1938 had the 81A-A block, quite different from the 81A-B block used in '39 and beyond. This one used the short 68 crank, same as used in '36 LB and 37-8 21 studs, and of course had main saddles to match the 68 type mains. The long crank -B block went into production in very late 1938, and the book (V8 club restoration manual) says that it is unlikely that any went into 1938 cars. To repeat, this is the production '38 24 stud, not the 21 stud also used in '38 and distinct from the '39 24 stud.

papanomad · 12-06-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

I would say four and this is based on a Jay Temple article in the Jan/Feb 1992 V8 Times. The late '38-40 with the 4 freeze plugs/sand cast plug holes in oil pan rail. 3 1/16 inch bore for Ford 3 3/16 for MercuryNext the 41/42 no freeze plugs and has raised deck where intake bolts.The 46-1948 59 block and then the 49-53 blocks. So that is where I come up with the 4 basics.

seems like the 59 block has 2 varieties 3 1/16 bore and 3 3/16 bore. are there and differences other than bore sizes?

scooder · 12-12-2016, 10:35 AM

Right guys,
I said I'd look at the 59 (only, no letter) block in my stash.
Its a 3 1/16 bore (221 ci) engine.

Has large 59 cast on the bell.

It does indeed pass the pencil test, glad my memory worked this time.

The deck face, it has one triangle top water hole and the two round lower holes, as per a regular 59A, the valve to bore measures like a 59A up, so approx 1.25" further away than the pre war stuff.
The cylinder walls, I don't have a 59A or later block to compare, but much thinner walls than my 99A's. Probably about same as the 221 pre tin can stuff. Don't think it'd comfortably go much over 3 3/16.

So the front of my 59 block is same as pre war stuff, the valve angle and deck face is post war, the cylinder wall thickness looks to be pre war. Pan rail is post war. Has a slinger type crank rather than rope seal.
Like I said it was a mix of stuff.
From this thread it proves even with this limited number produced small bore 59 engines, there's more than one casting style!
Martin.

rotorwrench · 12-12-2016, 02:17 PM

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Thanks for posting that. This is good information. There are other things that may be possible on these 41A blocks too (big maybe). Most information states that they started production sometime in late 1944 and this always made me wonder if the first ones had the 59 on the bell or not or used the older box & cores. The 59 series (239) production was allowed to start in what would be considered mid year production in 1945. The War Department had eased restrictions with the impending outcome of the war so that the auto manufacturers could get back in to their business and war contracts were being discontinued as surpluses mounted. The 221 blocks continued in production for quite some time after the war as replacement parts.

slowforty · 12-12-2016, 02:50 PM

As far as getting heads off I had a friend who made some Heavy Duty hooks that screwed into the spark plug holes. I used two and used a heavy slide hammer (2 lb} on the heads . They came off after a while. Works A Lot better than any other method that i used before. And only had to Curse half as much.

scooder · 12-12-2016, 03:03 PM

The one I have here was from the "matt green" fellows. As in war issue stuff, not sure what it was fitted in, but the flywheel wasn't drilled for a clutch, just had three 3/4" ish holes not far from center.
Martin.

Mart · 12-12-2016, 05:39 PM

Mart, I've seen flywheels like that. One keeps coming up on ebay. I wonder if they are marine?? Something like that? Or welder, generator, etc. Some non automotive application.

Mart.

flatford8 · 12-12-2016, 06:19 PM

I have one as a stationary engine that I was told powered a water pump. This has a coupler is in the center bolted to the crankshaft but is drilled for a clutch.... Mark

12-06-2016, 09:22 AM	#21
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: 59a - or 59ab How many generations are there for 24 stud block?

12-06-2016, 09:52 AM	#22
37 Coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,835	Re: 59a - or 59ab I would say four and this is based on a Jay Temple article in the Jan/Feb 1992 V8 Times. The late '38-40 with the 4 freeze plugs/sand cast plug holes in oil pan rail. 3 1/16 inch bore for Ford 3 3/16 for MercuryNext the 41/42 no freeze plugs and has raised deck where intake bolts.The 46-1948 59 block and then the 49-53 blocks. So that is where I come up with the 4 basics. __________________ "Never complain,never explain"... Henry Ford II

12-06-2016, 10:43 AM	#23
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: 59a - or 59ab There is one more, an oddity that has gotten scarce. The first 24 stud used in 1938 had the 81A-A block, quite different from the 81A-B block used in '39 and beyond. This one used the short 68 crank, same as used in '36 LB and 37-8 21 studs, and of course had main saddles to match the 68 type mains. The long crank -B block went into production in very late 1938, and the book (V8 club restoration manual) says that it is unlikely that any went into 1938 cars. To repeat, this is the production '38 24 stud, not the 21 stud also used in '38 and distinct from the '39 24 stud.

12-12-2016, 10:35 AM	#25
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 59a - or 59ab Right guys, I said I'd look at the 59 (only, no letter) block in my stash. Its a 3 1/16 bore (221 ci) engine. Has large 59 cast on the bell. It does indeed pass the pencil test, glad my memory worked this time. The deck face, it has one triangle top water hole and the two round lower holes, as per a regular 59A, the valve to bore measures like a 59A up, so approx 1.25" further away than the pre war stuff. The cylinder walls, I don't have a 59A or later block to compare, but much thinner walls than my 99A's. Probably about same as the 221 pre tin can stuff. Don't think it'd comfortably go much over 3 3/16. So the front of my 59 block is same as pre war stuff, the valve angle and deck face is post war, the cylinder wall thickness looks to be pre war. Pan rail is post war. Has a slinger type crank rather than rope seal. Like I said it was a mix of stuff. From this thread it proves even with this limited number produced small bore 59 engines, there's more than one casting style! Martin.

12-12-2016, 02:17 PM	#26
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 59a - or 59ab Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks for posting that. This is good information. There are other things that may be possible on these 41A blocks too (big maybe). Most information states that they started production sometime in late 1944 and this always made me wonder if the first ones had the 59 on the bell or not or used the older box & cores. The 59 series (239) production was allowed to start in what would be considered mid year production in 1945. The War Department had eased restrictions with the impending outcome of the war so that the auto manufacturers could get back in to their business and war contracts were being discontinued as surpluses mounted. The 221 blocks continued in production for quite some time after the war as replacement parts.

12-12-2016, 02:50 PM	#27
slowforty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tinley Park Ill Posts: 1,060	Re: 59a - or 59ab As far as getting heads off I had a friend who made some Heavy Duty hooks that screwed into the spark plug holes. I used two and used a heavy slide hammer (2 lb} on the heads . They came off after a while. Works A Lot better than any other method that i used before. And only had to Curse half as much.

12-12-2016, 03:03 PM	#28
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: 59a - or 59ab The one I have here was from the "matt green" fellows. As in war issue stuff, not sure what it was fitted in, but the flywheel wasn't drilled for a clutch, just had three 3/4" ish holes not far from center. Martin.

12-12-2016, 05:39 PM	#29
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,746	Re: 59a - or 59ab Mart, I've seen flywheels like that. One keeps coming up on ebay. I wonder if they are marine?? Something like that? Or welder, generator, etc. Some non automotive application. Mart.