The Ford Barn

fords · 04-16-2014, 07:29 PM

The last time I drove my '13 it was after I timed her and she started with little effort. Drove her around and put it in the garage. Came back about three weeks and went to start - but could not not turn the engine over, I pulled on the handle and was able to get the engine to turn over, pulled the plugs and found all four slight rust (water). Poured mystery oil in the cylinders and left it to sit. Will pull head and assess issue.

Last time I timed the engine I torqued the head bolts to be sure correct torque - some were not at 45 ft lbs so they were stepped torqued to 45, meaning 30 -35-40 -45. Not sure why this happened - I thought it to be prudent to always torque head bolts occasionally. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

Steve Jelf · 04-16-2014, 09:07 PM

I believe the generally accepted head bolt torque is 50 to 55. After you tighten them you drive a bit then torque them again. Repeat until they stay torqued. You didn't mention using a sealer when you installed the gasket. Copper Coat is a good one. It comes in both brush and spray forms. It goes on both sides of the gasket.

Will N · 04-17-2014, 07:17 AM

Did you follow the head bolt tightening pattern when you re-torqued it? If it wasn't leaking before you re-torqued it, I might look carefully for a crack in the head when you pull it to assess the issue. By the way, your crankcase oil is likely contaminated too, as the water in the cylinders would have probably leaked past the rings.

yachtsmanbill · 04-17-2014, 08:02 AM

Works every time for me. Lasts from the April fill up till the October drain. ws

CharlieB · 04-17-2014, 08:34 AM

The devil's in the details as they say so I'll add a few here: Pull the head and clean everything thoroughly checking for cracks. You said more than 1 cyl. was rusty so it's possible it's just a mis-torqued head. Less likely the head is warped but it's possible. Dig out each head bolt hole with an awl and blow them out with compressed air. Stuff gets in there and stops the bolts from tightening fully usually resulting in stripped threads. DON'T fail to do this. I don't know how it gets in there but it can cause real grief. New head bolts and chasing the block threads with a tap is preferred. Use a new gasket & sealer. Follow the tightening chart. There's one in Mac's catalog in the eng. gasket section. Final setting is as Steve says 50/55 lbs. Change the oil. Run the engine until it's hot and let it sit overnight to cool & re-torque again using the chart & the 50/55 Lbs. setting. Re-torque again after about 500 miles. Good Luck.

redmodelt · 04-17-2014, 10:13 AM

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Were the spark plugs loose and water got in there? Did you use sealer of any kind (including grease)? A stock engine only needs to be torqued to about 45 on the head bolts. Did you clean the holes out and confirm that the bolts go all the way down WITHOUT the head gasket in place?

fords · 04-20-2014, 05:32 AM

I thank you all for the input. Referencing Torque values - I have been told both values 55 and 45. 2 years ago when I did the top end I torque to 45. I have not been home to remove the head and assess the issue yet. Yes I followed the torque pattern and will review to be sure. The sprk plugs were seated well and pretty sure no water entered at that area.
I think I remember using the new silicon type head gasket and will use the copper type next time. Will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks again!

trainguy · 04-20-2014, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yachtsmanbill

Works every time for me. Lasts from the April fill up till the October drain. ws

Two eggs?????

redmodelt · 04-20-2014, 10:13 AM

Note on head gasket; unless the head and block have been surfaced the silicon type may not seal as well as the copper. Drain your oil with the front jacked up so any oil in the dipper tray gets drained. Lower the car and refill with the cheapest oil you can find, run for a while, then drain over night and refill with what ever type you like. I leave the drain plug out when refilling till I see the new clean oil coming out when changing oil.

yachtsmanbill · 04-20-2014, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainguy

Two eggs?????

Well, after 3 generations of Model T'ing, theres certain things you do to keep the juices on the "inside" LOL. I built the speedster 2 years ago and the radiator looked serviceable. Got her running and added some water and there was a water letter outer right in the center of the core.
Being fresh outa horse manure, I did what the book recommended... added 2 raw eggs. Now she holds her water all summer and RARELY needs a touch up. I was also disappointed; the other day I went to the storage barn where I keep her over the winter. Put her away after a 5 mile run (nice and hot) and came back to find about 1/4 to 1/2 a shot glass of oil underneath her too. Looks like a drain plug gasket or oil petcock seeping... my jobs don't usually leak if its my work. ws

Very First Start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sL948Cak2I

Run up to warm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucqfcW1hrTk

vern0n · 04-30-2014, 10:49 PM

yachtsmanbill , how do you get the eggs in the radiator without breaking them?

Big John · 05-01-2014, 08:56 AM

Depends what kind of eggs??????

redmodelt · 05-01-2014, 09:38 AM

Soak them in vinegar till soft then they slide right in shell and all!

Don't waste the vinegar, soak your rusty bolts or small parts in it to get rid of the rust.

nhusa · 05-01-2014, 11:19 AM

I put a couple eggs in the radiator of my T and a few days later I heard some squeaking.
When I removed the radiator cap two chicks hopped out.

If I had started the car I would have had chicken soup to go along with my manifold roast.

The T certainly is a universal vehicle!

04-16-2014, 07:29 PM	#1
fords Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne, Fl Posts: 62	water in cylinders The last time I drove my '13 it was after I timed her and she started with little effort. Drove her around and put it in the garage. Came back about three weeks and went to start - but could not not turn the engine over, I pulled on the handle and was able to get the engine to turn over, pulled the plugs and found all four slight rust (water). Poured mystery oil in the cylinders and left it to sit. Will pull head and assess issue. Last time I timed the engine I torqued the head bolts to be sure correct torque - some were not at 45 ft lbs so they were stepped torqued to 45, meaning 30 -35-40 -45. Not sure why this happened - I thought it to be prudent to always torque head bolts occasionally. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

04-16-2014, 09:07 PM	#2
Steve Jelf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Parkerfield KS Posts: 526	Re: water in cylinders I believe the generally accepted head bolt torque is 50 to 55. After you tighten them you drive a bit then torque them again. Repeat until they stay torqued. You didn't mention using a sealer when you installed the gasket. Copper Coat is a good one. It comes in both brush and spray forms. It goes on both sides of the gasket.

04-17-2014, 07:17 AM	#3
Will N Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,100	Re: water in cylinders Did you follow the head bolt tightening pattern when you re-torqued it? If it wasn't leaking before you re-torqued it, I might look carefully for a crack in the head when you pull it to assess the issue. By the way, your crankcase oil is likely contaminated too, as the water in the cylinders would have probably leaked past the rings.

04-17-2014, 08:02 AM	#4
yachtsmanbill Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Two Rivers, Wi. Posts: 1,406	Re: water in cylinders Works every time for me. Lasts from the April fill up till the October drain. ws __________________ " Warning; the following contains content that the anal retentive may find offensive - please skip on to the next posting!"

04-17-2014, 08:34 AM	#5
CharlieB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Toms River N.J. Posts: 515	Re: water in cylinders The devil's in the details as they say so I'll add a few here: Pull the head and clean everything thoroughly checking for cracks. You said more than 1 cyl. was rusty so it's possible it's just a mis-torqued head. Less likely the head is warped but it's possible. Dig out each head bolt hole with an awl and blow them out with compressed air. Stuff gets in there and stops the bolts from tightening fully usually resulting in stripped threads. DON'T fail to do this. I don't know how it gets in there but it can cause real grief. New head bolts and chasing the block threads with a tap is preferred. Use a new gasket & sealer. Follow the tightening chart. There's one in Mac's catalog in the eng. gasket section. Final setting is as Steve says 50/55 lbs. Change the oil. Run the engine until it's hot and let it sit overnight to cool & re-torque again using the chart & the 50/55 Lbs. setting. Re-torque again after about 500 miles. Good Luck.

04-17-2014, 10:13 AM	#6
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: water in cylinders Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Were the spark plugs loose and water got in there? Did you use sealer of any kind (including grease)? A stock engine only needs to be torqued to about 45 on the head bolts. Did you clean the holes out and confirm that the bolts go all the way down WITHOUT the head gasket in place?

04-20-2014, 05:32 AM	#7
fords Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Melbourne, Fl Posts: 62	Re: water in cylinders I thank you all for the input. Referencing Torque values - I have been told both values 55 and 45. 2 years ago when I did the top end I torque to 45. I have not been home to remove the head and assess the issue yet. Yes I followed the torque pattern and will review to be sure. The sprk plugs were seated well and pretty sure no water entered at that area. I think I remember using the new silicon type head gasket and will use the copper type next time. Will keep you posted on my progress. Thanks again!

04-20-2014, 10:13 AM	#9
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: water in cylinders Note on head gasket; unless the head and block have been surfaced the silicon type may not seal as well as the copper. Drain your oil with the front jacked up so any oil in the dipper tray gets drained. Lower the car and refill with the cheapest oil you can find, run for a while, then drain over night and refill with what ever type you like. I leave the drain plug out when refilling till I see the new clean oil coming out when changing oil.

04-30-2014, 10:49 PM	#11
vern0n Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7	Re: water in cylinders yachtsmanbill , how do you get the eggs in the radiator without breaking them?

05-01-2014, 08:56 AM	#12
Big John Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 416	Re: water in cylinders Depends what kind of eggs??????

05-01-2014, 09:38 AM	#13
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: water in cylinders Soak them in vinegar till soft then they slide right in shell and all! Don't waste the vinegar, soak your rusty bolts or small parts in it to get rid of the rust.

05-01-2014, 11:19 AM	#14
nhusa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 549	Re: water in cylinders I put a couple eggs in the radiator of my T and a few days later I heard some squeaking. When I removed the radiator cap two chicks hopped out. If I had started the car I would have had chicken soup to go along with my manifold roast. The T certainly is a universal vehicle!