The Ford Barn

1934 · 06-15-2015, 08:05 AM

Hi guys, I need help with my '34; it has been running fairly well until the other day when it stalled on me. Tried to restart it but it would not even try to turn over. There was a small noise at the starter switch when I pressed on it so I changed the switch but had exactly the same problem. I tried turning the motor over by hand and it was locked up tight! I took the starter out, thinking it may be locked up, checked it all out and re-installed it. I hit the starter switch and the motor turned over as it should but as soon as the car started it would die right away as if the power had been cut. I tried several times and always the same.
I have noticed now that the lights are not working, (but they were before this episode). Also, when I turn on the ign. switch it does not show discharge, (as it always did before).
I have checked all the 'usual suspects', i.e. grounds and connections.
Any ideas would be much appreciated- something is killing the power.
Thanks, Doug.

Juergen · 06-15-2015, 10:23 AM

Don't know how to check your engine problem but how did you check the grounds and connections. Did you use a voltmeter at all the connections? Did you check the voltage before and after the ignition switch? Did you check the voltage before and after the dropping resistor to the coil and see a drop? You may have to turn the engine to close the points to see the drop. Similarly the voltage at the generator and into the light switch.

1934 · 06-15-2015, 08:44 PM

Thanks for the input Juergen. I just checked all the connections physically because I don't have a voltmeter. The wiring is fairly new but sometimes the repro stuff is a bit questionable. Anyway I will get a voltmeter and check it properly.

JSeery · 06-15-2015, 08:57 PM

This wouldn't stop it from working, but while you are at it make sure the wiring to the battery is the correct gauge for a 6v system. Grounds can be hard to check and tend to be the root of most electrical problems, so a good place to start. If you understand how to use a voltmeter and check resistance, I would see how many ohms there are across both the grounds and some of the other connections, at the fuse panel, on/off switch, etc. Be sure the battery is disconnected when doing continuity / ohm test.

1934 · 06-16-2015, 05:05 AM

My ground wire to the battery is probably not the correct gage but the fact that the motor turns over fast and strong tells me it must be ok. With ign. on it starts for a fraction of a second then dies as if I turned off the switch. (And I have no lights or ammeter reading).
Do you think the battery ground wire could be at fault? Thanks.

Terry,OH · 06-16-2015, 05:53 AM

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When your starter motor locked up it will draw an unusual amount of amperage from the battery. This may have damaged other wires or a connection of the wires to the car. It would appear, your car, is not wired as it should have been, since this should not have happened. Is your car a V8 or 4? Have you checked the light fuse?

1934 · 06-16-2015, 06:56 AM

Terry, it's a V8, ('37 motor). I did check the light fuse. I disconnected the gen. wire and tried it but no luck. I disconnected all the lighting but still no movement on ammeter when I turn ign. on. Is it possible the ammeter gage was damaged when the starter locked up?

Juergen · 06-16-2015, 07:28 AM

The ammeter is an inductive type which is hard to fail or overdrive. It only displays the current to/from the battery excluding of course the current to the starter. A more likely problem is that your on/off switch burned out. Use a jumper wire to bypass this switch and see if this helps. Unfortunately your lights don't go through this switch so I can't surmise why they don't work if your light fuse is OK.

1934 · 06-16-2015, 08:19 AM

One of the first things I did was disconnect the two wires from the ign. switch and touch the ends together but there was no spark or reading on the ammeter. I just finished changing the ammeter with another one I had but it didn't make any difference. Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts.

Terry,OH · 06-16-2015, 08:28 AM

What ever you did to disconnect the lights, reconnect them and then remove the fuse. The fuse will disconnect all the lighting. Now all you should have in the battery circuit is the ignition, Ammeter, cigar lighter, horns, starter. You removed the wire off the cut out keep it off for the time being and place some tape on it so it does not contact ground. I agree with Juergen follow his advice. If the car does not run move the jumper across both ends of the resistor and try, if that does not make the car run, then move the jumper to a good ground and jumper that to the body of the distributor & try. It would help if you had a voltmeter or even a simple test light. There are two different ammeters one has a metal loop and the battery power wire passes through the loop, the other ammeter has two terminals and two wires connect one on each terminal, which type do you have?

Bob C · 06-16-2015, 09:56 AM

I haven't read this whole thread but if it starts and then dies as soon
as you let off the starter you may have the yellow wire to the solenoid
on the wrong side so you are only getting power to the coil when the
engine is cranking.

Bob

koates · 06-16-2015, 09:57 AM

Doug, You need to start from the battery and work along with a test light or preferably a volt meter. Battery voltage should be 6.3 volts across the terminals on a good one. Check and clean the battery terminals which should be bright & shiney inside the cable clamps. Check that the battery cable terminal stud on the foot starter switch is clean, tight and not burnt or overheated. The main power pick up wire for everything else in the car is also connected here. Check the voltage at this terminal stud. Its possible you may even have a faulty battery. If all is good at these points then move up under the dash and check your ammeter terminals (1934 on has a loop on the ammeter, no electrical connection) and then the fuse and fuse holder. You have to work along (test for power) the power supply circuit until you find where the power is lost. Invest in a meter and a test light or make a test light from an old bulb socket and a bulb with a couple of wires on it. Those foot starter switch terminals are prone to have problems. Check that the battery Pos ground cable where it connects to the chassis is clean and tight. Good luck. regards, Kevin.

1934 · 06-16-2015, 11:38 AM

I finally got the car running by hooking up a wire from the dist. directly to the battery. It doesn't solve the light problem but at least I'm making a bit of headway. So I guess the problem is between the dist. and the ign. switch?? I am now in the process of changing the resistor unit under the dash to see if that's the issue.
Bob, when you talked about the yellow wire going to the selenoid did you mean the starter switch? I have no selenoid but you made me think that maybe I did put the wires on wrong when I changed the starter switch. I have 3 wires on one post and 1 wire going to the starter on the other one. Is this correct?
Thanks guys!
(The ammeter is loop type).

Bob C · 06-16-2015, 11:45 AM

Yes it sound like the switch is wired OK.

Bob

JSeery · 06-16-2015, 02:09 PM

If the lights are not working, I would start at the fuse/resistor block. That's where everything comes together. See if you have power to the post on the HOT side of the fuse, should be a heavy Yellow wire. The ING SW side of the resistor should have power when the IGN SW is ON and no power when the IGN SW if OFF.

1934 · 06-17-2015, 06:10 AM

Thanks for the diagram JSeery, it will be helpful. I won't be working on the car for a day or two but will keep you posted. Thanks again to all!

flatheadmurre · 06-17-2015, 08:01 AM

You have to have some load on when checking for voltage drop.
Can measure fine when unloaded then the voltage drop when you start drawing current.
Measure with lights on and it should be fine.

1934 · 06-20-2015, 07:16 AM

I got the car running this morning, even the lights work! I had put the wires on wrong at the starter switch when I changed it. It was really dumb but s--- happens.From now on I will take photos of anything I take apart first! Anyway, thanks to all who took the time to offer suggestions and help me out with this.
Doug.

06-15-2015, 08:05 AM	#1
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	'34 electrical issues Hi guys, I need help with my '34; it has been running fairly well until the other day when it stalled on me. Tried to restart it but it would not even try to turn over. There was a small noise at the starter switch when I pressed on it so I changed the switch but had exactly the same problem. I tried turning the motor over by hand and it was locked up tight! I took the starter out, thinking it may be locked up, checked it all out and re-installed it. I hit the starter switch and the motor turned over as it should but as soon as the car started it would die right away as if the power had been cut. I tried several times and always the same. I have noticed now that the lights are not working, (but they were before this episode). Also, when I turn on the ign. switch it does not show discharge, (as it always did before). I have checked all the 'usual suspects', i.e. grounds and connections. Any ideas would be much appreciated- something is killing the power. Thanks, Doug.

06-15-2015, 10:23 AM	#2
Juergen Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 508	Re: '34 electrical issues Don't know how to check your engine problem but how did you check the grounds and connections. Did you use a voltmeter at all the connections? Did you check the voltage before and after the ignition switch? Did you check the voltage before and after the dropping resistor to the coil and see a drop? You may have to turn the engine to close the points to see the drop. Similarly the voltage at the generator and into the light switch.

06-15-2015, 08:44 PM	#3
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues Thanks for the input Juergen. I just checked all the connections physically because I don't have a voltmeter. The wiring is fairly new but sometimes the repro stuff is a bit questionable. Anyway I will get a voltmeter and check it properly.

06-15-2015, 08:57 PM	#4
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: '34 electrical issues This wouldn't stop it from working, but while you are at it make sure the wiring to the battery is the correct gauge for a 6v system. Grounds can be hard to check and tend to be the root of most electrical problems, so a good place to start. If you understand how to use a voltmeter and check resistance, I would see how many ohms there are across both the grounds and some of the other connections, at the fuse panel, on/off switch, etc. Be sure the battery is disconnected when doing continuity / ohm test.

06-16-2015, 05:05 AM	#5
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues My ground wire to the battery is probably not the correct gage but the fact that the motor turns over fast and strong tells me it must be ok. With ign. on it starts for a fraction of a second then dies as if I turned off the switch. (And I have no lights or ammeter reading). Do you think the battery ground wire could be at fault? Thanks.

06-16-2015, 05:53 AM	#6
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,794	Re: '34 electrical issues Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When your starter motor locked up it will draw an unusual amount of amperage from the battery. This may have damaged other wires or a connection of the wires to the car. It would appear, your car, is not wired as it should have been, since this should not have happened. Is your car a V8 or 4? Have you checked the light fuse?

06-16-2015, 06:56 AM	#7
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues Terry, it's a V8, ('37 motor). I did check the light fuse. I disconnected the gen. wire and tried it but no luck. I disconnected all the lighting but still no movement on ammeter when I turn ign. on. Is it possible the ammeter gage was damaged when the starter locked up?

06-16-2015, 07:28 AM	#8
Juergen Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 508	Re: '34 electrical issues The ammeter is an inductive type which is hard to fail or overdrive. It only displays the current to/from the battery excluding of course the current to the starter. A more likely problem is that your on/off switch burned out. Use a jumper wire to bypass this switch and see if this helps. Unfortunately your lights don't go through this switch so I can't surmise why they don't work if your light fuse is OK.

06-16-2015, 08:19 AM	#9
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues One of the first things I did was disconnect the two wires from the ign. switch and touch the ends together but there was no spark or reading on the ammeter. I just finished changing the ammeter with another one I had but it didn't make any difference. Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts.

06-16-2015, 08:28 AM	#10
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,794	Re: '34 electrical issues What ever you did to disconnect the lights, reconnect them and then remove the fuse. The fuse will disconnect all the lighting. Now all you should have in the battery circuit is the ignition, Ammeter, cigar lighter, horns, starter. You removed the wire off the cut out keep it off for the time being and place some tape on it so it does not contact ground. I agree with Juergen follow his advice. If the car does not run move the jumper across both ends of the resistor and try, if that does not make the car run, then move the jumper to a good ground and jumper that to the body of the distributor & try. It would help if you had a voltmeter or even a simple test light. There are two different ammeters one has a metal loop and the battery power wire passes through the loop, the other ammeter has two terminals and two wires connect one on each terminal, which type do you have?

06-16-2015, 09:56 AM	#11
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,803	Re: '34 electrical issues I haven't read this whole thread but if it starts and then dies as soon as you let off the starter you may have the yellow wire to the solenoid on the wrong side so you are only getting power to the coil when the engine is cranking. Bob

06-16-2015, 09:57 AM	#12
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,085	Re: '34 electrical issues Doug, You need to start from the battery and work along with a test light or preferably a volt meter. Battery voltage should be 6.3 volts across the terminals on a good one. Check and clean the battery terminals which should be bright & shiney inside the cable clamps. Check that the battery cable terminal stud on the foot starter switch is clean, tight and not burnt or overheated. The main power pick up wire for everything else in the car is also connected here. Check the voltage at this terminal stud. Its possible you may even have a faulty battery. If all is good at these points then move up under the dash and check your ammeter terminals (1934 on has a loop on the ammeter, no electrical connection) and then the fuse and fuse holder. You have to work along (test for power) the power supply circuit until you find where the power is lost. Invest in a meter and a test light or make a test light from an old bulb socket and a bulb with a couple of wires on it. Those foot starter switch terminals are prone to have problems. Check that the battery Pos ground cable where it connects to the chassis is clean and tight. Good luck. regards, Kevin.

06-16-2015, 11:38 AM	#13
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues I finally got the car running by hooking up a wire from the dist. directly to the battery. It doesn't solve the light problem but at least I'm making a bit of headway. So I guess the problem is between the dist. and the ign. switch?? I am now in the process of changing the resistor unit under the dash to see if that's the issue. Bob, when you talked about the yellow wire going to the selenoid did you mean the starter switch? I have no selenoid but you made me think that maybe I did put the wires on wrong when I changed the starter switch. I have 3 wires on one post and 1 wire going to the starter on the other one. Is this correct? Thanks guys! (The ammeter is loop type).

06-16-2015, 11:45 AM	#14
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,803	Re: '34 electrical issues Yes it sound like the switch is wired OK. Bob

06-17-2015, 06:10 AM	#16
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues Thanks for the diagram JSeery, it will be helpful. I won't be working on the car for a day or two but will keep you posted. Thanks again to all!

06-17-2015, 08:01 AM	#17
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: '34 electrical issues You have to have some load on when checking for voltage drop. Can measure fine when unloaded then the voltage drop when you start drawing current. Measure with lights on and it should be fine.

06-20-2015, 07:16 AM	#18
1934 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 416	Re: '34 electrical issues I got the car running this morning, even the lights work! I had put the wires on wrong at the starter switch when I changed it. It was really dumb but s--- happens.From now on I will take photos of anything I take apart first! Anyway, thanks to all who took the time to offer suggestions and help me out with this. Doug.